Good uses for nair?

[Spoice]

I've found approaching isn't too reliable, and so far it seems like I could use it as a mix up after an up throw, but is there any main use/good use for nair?

 

[Link24a]

Use it for:
-platform coverage as it lasts long, and 110% safe
-tech chases as it lasts kinda long
-combo starter/continuer/ender in various juggle situations. (after up throw isn't really that great of an idea)

There's many more uses but those are just what I thought of off the top of my head

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

There are several benefits to using it.

-Nair is more powerful horizontal launcher than tipper Bair and tipper Fair or weak Fair. Tipper Fair is not as good because people can DI up and pretty much go vertical rather than horizontal. Nair is tipperless as well and will have the same hitbox across the whole length of his sword. The only downside is that Nair does not allow high altitude combo continuation. This makes Nair a better launcher at later percents when you cannot combo say Fair -> Fair -> regrab at lower percents.

-Nair auto-cancels, but this is not really super important. Whether you get the l-cancel or the auto-cancel you end up with pretty much the same number of frames advantage before being able to do some ground action.

-You can pretty much use Nair like any other Nair in the game (but less effective) because it has a long duration. However, in order to make effective of the hitting with the first hit you pretty much have to be somewhat stationary while using Nair. Thus, it makes a good hitbox to simply put out there for whatever reason you might have.

I am not sure there are any other useful traits about it.

 

[Wafflesaurus]

Pivot nairs are good as a get off of me move or to protect your area

 

[FE_Hector]

Personally, I love using nairs to start combo (requires immaculate spacing), and to continue them. For example, when I play against my bros Sheik, I will normally charge him with a short hop dair/bair depending on how I think he'll try to avoid me, but if I slow my momentum by triggering back, followed by a partially fast fallen nair, it can hit him as he comes back from his roll or as he's dashing away. Other times (ie after landing an ftilt), he might land on a platform, especially in Battlefield. In order to cover most of his options while making full advantage of my speed, I'll dash most of the way there, short hop, release the control stick for an instant, nair, and continue my journey to the left or the right. After landing, I can either dair spike (rare) or a fair to knock him away from the edge. After that, it's a pretty simple matter of keeping him off the edge/forcing him to get onto the stadium where I can tipper fsmash to KO. It's all about awareness of what your opponent can/will do. Also, the nair works excellently if you're not quite sure what your opponent will do and you're both in the air. It has a pretty darn good chance of hitting him from either side, so it doesn't really make a difference if he slows down or speeds up his aerial movement.

 

[AudioSilver]

I usually jump out of shield and N-Air if my opponent is using pressure attacks. (Since N-Air can give good knockback around 40%+, which is when I'm generally pressured.)

 

[The Young Izzy Iz]

If you're in a situation where you have to short-hop aerial from the ledge, nair can give you an option that lasts longer than fair and if it hits pushes the opponent far enough back (given percent) to reset to neutral. Frames for nair are 6-7 15-21, frames for fair are 4-7. That's potentially 7-6 frames for nair opposed to the 3 for fair, basically double keeping in mind the nair's hitbox absence between frames 7-15.

 

[FE_Hector]

I usually jump out of shield and N-Air if my opponent is using pressure attacks. (Since N-Air can give good knockback around 40%+, which is when I'm generally pressured.)

If your opponent is putting crappy enough shield pressure that you can nair, I'd expect you to win. In a shield pressure circumstance, I'd rather not recommend nair nearly as much as an OoS grab. It oughtta be safer, too.

 

[The Young Izzy Iz]

If your opponent is putting crappy enough shield pressure that you can nair, I'd expect you to win. In a shield pressure circumstance, I'd rather not recommend nair nearly as much as an OoS grab. It oughtta be safer, too.

JC grab out of shield is a good option because of it's comparatively long range, but Nair out of shield allows a number of other options. If you're on battlefield you can full-jump retreating nair to a platform to get pressure off. It also allows you to advancing short-hop aerial out of shield which has much, much better range and speed than trying to drop shield and dash JC grab. Really the defining factor is the lag that comes from dropping shield makes nairing a little faster.

 

[FE_Hector]

JC grab out of shield is a good option because of it's comparatively long range, but Nair out of shield allows a number of other options. If you're on battlefield you can full-jump retreating nair to a platform to get pressure off. It also allows you to advancing short-hop aerial out of shield which has much, much better range and speed than trying to drop shield and dash JC grab. Really the defining factor is the lag that comes from dropping shield makes nairing a little faster.

I suppose it depends on the character you're fighting, too. Different characters shield pressure differently, so if you're against... I don't know, a Marth, you could probably escape with a nair. If a space animal is SHFFL dair + shining you as shield pressure, wait for the tiny open section and grab OoS. I guess I was thinking more about the space animals than I was a normal character. And if they're concept of shield pressure is rapid jabs, I'd suggest not shielding in favor of CC dtilting it.

 

[The Young Izzy Iz]

I suppose it depends on the character you're fighting, too. Different characters shield pressure differently, so if you're against... I don't know, a Marth, you could probably escape with a nair. If a space animal is SHFFL dair + shining you as shield pressure, wait for the tiny open section and grab OoS. I guess I was thinking more about the space animals than I was a normal character. And if they're concept of shield pressure is rapid jabs, I'd suggest not shielding in favor of CC dtilting it.

If you're shielding against a good spacie player sometimes there's only so much you can do. Short-hop nair to Shine to JC grab out of Shine is a confirmed combo that covers pretty much every option and doesn't allow you to do much out of shield due to shield-stun. Sometimes you can get lucky and spot-dodge/roll the grab but otherwise you can be in a tough spot. You're basically relying on them to mess it up somewhere. There being said Marth had some great options for spacies that try to jump 1/2 across battlefield for the nair. Retreating aerials are great, even in neutral, because if you react/bait well enough by the time they realize the aerial is coming they've already committed. Retreating fair/ retreating non-FF nair is ridiculously good against opponents that favor sloppy aggression because most of the time their approach just runs right into whatever you're throwing out.

 

[FE_Hector]

If you're shielding against a good spacie player sometimes there's only so much you can do. Short-hop nair to Shine to JC grab out of Shine is a confirmed combo that covers pretty much every option and doesn't allow you to do much out of shield due to shield-stun. Sometimes you can get lucky and spot-dodge/roll the grab but otherwise you can be in a tough spot. You're basically relying on them to mess it up somewhere. There being said Marth had some great options for spacies that try to jump 1/2 across battlefield for the nair. Retreating aerials are great, even in neutral, because if you react/bait well enough by the time they realize the aerial is coming they've already committed. Retreating fair/ retreating non-FF nair is ridiculously good against opponents that favor sloppy aggression because most of the time their approach just runs right into whatever you're throwing out.

I'd meant you do a JC grab to stop the space animal, but you make a very good point. Retreating aerials can mess up your opponent, especially if they try to attack you while you're retreating. Especially if you short hopped. If they're not favoring sloppy aggression... have fun. I don't have too much experience against human opponents. I've fought 2 Fox's, a Marth that was way below my skill level, and my bro's Sheik, and that's about it. I know a good amount from watching the pros, though, and I'm looking to participate more against people.

 

[Mijah]

Nair can be a great approach option IF and only if you have forced your opponent to approach you in the air. If you are successfully dtilting all of their approach options, spacies and falcons will start coming at you with SHNairs, this can be countered by your own nair. Use shield stopping and autocanceling to mix-up timings or good players will find their way into your hurt box between the two attacks.

 

[Stride]

Short-hop nair to Shine to JC grab out of Shine is a confirmed combo that covers pretty much every option and doesn't allow you to do much out of shield due to shield-stun. Sometimes you can get lucky and spot-dodge/roll the grab but otherwise you can be in a tough spot. You're basically relying on them to mess it up somewhere.

You can always buffer roll or spotdodge out of shine grab; you don't have to "get lucky".

 

[DeadPigeon]

You can always buffer roll or spotdodge out of shine grab; you don't have to "get lucky".

This is only if the spacie messes up and lets you out of stun.

 

[Stride]

This is only if the spacie messes up and lets you out of stun.

In the case of shine grab and literally every other possible followup from a shine on shield, you're out of shieldstun before the hitbubble is out. Every followup but a shine leaves you at least 4 frames of actionability (which is always enough to roll unless you're Bowser), and even an optimal double shine leaves you 3 actionable frames (which is enough to spotdodge unless you're Bowser).

Assuming frame-perfection and a non-stale Fox shine, Marth can escape from shine grab in a 4 frame window with a spotdodge and a 2 frame window with a roll (between the shine and the grab). The window doesn't matter though, since you can buffer the spotdodge or roll to get it every time.

Frame data
Relevant information:
• Fox's shine has 4 frames of shieldstun when fresh, and has 3 frames when staled (which will often be the case with normal use). Faclo's has 5 frames when fresh, 4 when slightly staled (the state it will be in most of the time), and 3 when extremely staled (which practically never occurs since shine has to occupy the first 8 slots in the stale move queue).
• Shine is jump cancellable from frame 4.
• Grab hits on frames 7-8.

• For almost all characters (including Marth), spotdodges are intangible on frame 2 and both rolls are intangible on frame 4.
• Marth's spotdodge lasts for 27 frames, and is intangible on frames 2-18.
• Marth's forwards roll lasts for 35 frames, and is intangible on frames 4-19.
• Marth's backwards roll lasts for 35 frames, and is intangible on frames 4-23.

Assumptions unless otherwise specified:
• Inputs from both the attacker and the victim are done as soon as possible.
• The shine is not stale (which is the best-case scenario for the attacker).
• The attacker is Fox, therefore his shine damage (and resulting hitlag and shieldstun) will be used. For Falco, add 1 additional frame of hitlag for both players and 1 additional fame of shieldstun for the victim.
• The victim is Marth, therefore his spotdodge and roll frame data will be used.

Frame|Attacker|Victim (spotdodge)|Victim (forwards roll)|Victim (backwards roll)
1|Hitlag|Hitlag|Hitlag|Hitlag
2|Hitlag|Hitlag|Hitlag|Hitlag
3|Hitlag|Hitlag|Hitlag|Hitlag
4|Hitlag|Hitlag|Hitlag|Hitlag
5|Inactionable frame of shine|Shieldstun|Shieldstun|Shieldstun
6|Inactionable frame of shine|Shieldstun|Shieldstun|Shieldstun
7|Jumpsquat|Shieldstun|Shieldstun|Shieldstun
8|Grab startup|Shieldstun|Shieldstun|Shieldstun
9|Grab startup|Spotdodge startup|Roll startup|Roll startup
10|Grab startup|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll startup|Roll startup
11|Grab startup|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll startup|Roll startup
12|Grab startup|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
13|Grab startup|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
14|Grab active frame|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
15|Grab active frame|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
16|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
17|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
18|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
19|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
20|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
21|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
22|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
23|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
24|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
25|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
26|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
27|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
28|Grab endlag|Spotdodge endlag|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
29|Grab endlag|Spotdodge endlag|Roll endlag|Roll intangibility
30|Grab endlag|Spotdodge endlag|Roll endlag|Roll intangibility
31|Grab endlag|Spotdodge endlag|Roll endlag|Roll intangibility
32|Grab endlag|Spotdodge endlag|Roll endlag|Roll intangibility
33|Grab endlag|Spotdodge endlag|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
34|Grab endlag|Spotdodge endlag|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
35|Grab endlag|Actionable|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
36|Grab endlag|Actionable|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
37|Grab endlag|Actionable|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
38|Actionable|Actionable|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
39|Actionable|Actionable|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
40|Actionable|Actionable|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
41|Actionable|Actionable|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
42|Actionable|Actionable|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
43|Actionable|Actionable|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
n>43|Actionable|Actionable|Actionable|Actionable

Note how the victim is always intangible during the grab's active frames.

Now that I've made the table, I realise that characters with fast spotdodges (Dr. Mario, Falco, Fox, Kirby, Link, Luigi, Mario, Pichu, Pikachu, Samus, Sheik, Yoshi, and Young Link) have a +8 frame advantage if they buffer a spotdodge on a shine grab. That means they have an opportunity to grab or use another strong punish option (Samus down smash, Falco shine, etc.). Marth's spotdodge is too slow to realiably/usefully do much besides dash.

 

[ChivalRuse]

That chart is disgustingly sexy.

 

[reverie2]

In the case of shine grab and literally every other possible followup from a shine on shield, you're out of shieldstun before the hitbubble is out. Every followup but a shine leaves you at least 4 frames of actionability (which is always enough to roll unless you're Bowser), and even an optimal double shine leaves you 3 actionable frames (which is enough to spotdodge unless you're Bowser).

Assuming frame-perfection and a non-stale Fox shine, Marth can escape from shine grab in a 4 frame window with a spotdodge and a 2 frame window with a roll (between the shine and the grab). The window doesn't matter though, since you can buffer the spotdodge or roll to get it every time.

Frame data
Relevant information:
• Fox's shine has 4 frames of shieldstun when fresh, and has 3 frames when staled (which will often be the case with normal use). Faclo's has 5 frames when fresh, 4 when slightly staled (the state it will be in most of the time), and 3 when extremely staled (which practically never occurs since shine has to occupy the first 8 slots in the stale move queue).
• Shine is jump cancellable from frame 4.
• Grab hits on frames 7-8.

• For almost all characters (including Marth), spotdodges are intangible on frame 2 and both rolls are intangible on frame 4.
• Marth's spotdodge lasts for 27 frames, and is intangible on frames 2-18.
• Marth's forwards roll lasts for 35 frames, and is intangible on frames 4-19.
• Marth's backwards roll lasts for 35 frames, and is intangible on frames 4-23.

Assumptions unless otherwise specified:
• Inputs from both the attacker and the victim are done as soon as possible.
• The shine is not stale (which is the best-case scenario for the attacker).
• The attacker is Fox, therefore his shine damage (and resulting hitlag and shieldstun) will be used. For Falco, add 1 additional frame of hitlag for both players and 1 additional fame of shieldstun for the victim.
• The victim is Marth, therefore his spotdodge and roll frame data will be used.

Frame|Attacker|Victim (spotdodge)|Victim (forwards roll)|Victim (backwards roll)
1|Hitlag|Hitlag|Hitlag|Hitlag
2|Hitlag|Hitlag|Hitlag|Hitlag
3|Hitlag|Hitlag|Hitlag|Hitlag
4|Hitlag|Hitlag|Hitlag|Hitlag
5|Inactionable frame of shine|Shieldstun|Shieldstun|Shieldstun
6|Inactionable frame of shine|Shieldstun|Shieldstun|Shieldstun
7|Jumpsquat|Shieldstun|Shieldstun|Shieldstun
8|Grab startup|Shieldstun|Shieldstun|Shieldstun
9|Grab startup|Spotdodge startup|Roll startup|Roll startup
10|Grab startup|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll startup|Roll startup
11|Grab startup|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll startup|Roll startup
12|Grab startup|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
13|Grab startup|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
14|Grab active frame|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
15|Grab active frame|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
16|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
17|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
18|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
19|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
20|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
21|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
22|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
23|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
24|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
25|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
26|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
27|Grab endlag|Spotdodge intangibility|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
28|Grab endlag|Spotdodge endlag|Roll intangibility|Roll intangibility
29|Grab endlag|Spotdodge endlag|Roll endlag|Roll intangibility
30|Grab endlag|Spotdodge endlag|Roll endlag|Roll intangibility
31|Grab endlag|Spotdodge endlag|Roll endlag|Roll intangibility
32|Grab endlag|Spotdodge endlag|Roll endlag|Roll intangibility
33|Grab endlag|Spotdodge endlag|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
34|Grab endlag|Spotdodge endlag|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
35|Grab endlag|Actionable|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
36|Grab endlag|Actionable|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
37|Grab endlag|Actionable|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
38|Actionable|Actionable|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
39|Actionable|Actionable|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
40|Actionable|Actionable|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
41|Actionable|Actionable|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
42|Actionable|Actionable|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
43|Actionable|Actionable|Roll endlag|Roll endlag
43<|Actionable|Actionable|Actionable|Actionable

Note how the victim is always intangible during the grab's active frames.

Now that I've made the table, I realise that characters with fast spotdodges (Dr. Mario, Falco, Fox, Kirby, Link, Luigi, Mario, Pichu, Pikachu, Samus, Sheik, Yoshi, and Young Link) have a +8 frame advantage if they buffer a spotdodge on a shine grab. That means they have an opportunity to grab or use another strong punish option (Samus down smash, Falco shine, etc.). Marth's spotdodge is too slow to realiably/usefully do much besides dash.

Where do the "inactionable frame of shine" come from for frame 5 and 6? I know that shine is JC'able starting frame 4, and i get that you have 4 frames of hitlag, and by that logic, you can start the jump at frame 5(immediately after hitlag) and start the grab the frame after that one. So i think i'm misunderstanding something somewhere

 

[Stride]

Where do the "inactionable frame of shine" come from for frame 5 and 6? I know that shine is JC'able starting frame 4, and i get that you have 4 frames of hitlag, and by that logic, you can start the jump at frame 5(immediately after hitlag) and start the grab the frame after that one. So i think i'm misunderstanding something somewhere

You can't jump out of or turn around in shine on frames 1, 2, or 3 of the move; that's what the "inactionable frames" are.

Hitlag is the repeating of the animation of the frame a move connects on. You hit with frame 1 of the shine, so the hitlag animation is frame 1 of the shine (meaning frame 1 of the animation plays 4 times, on each of the 4 frames of hitlag). Then once hitlag ends you go through frame 2 and frame 3 of the shine (in which you can't do anything), then you reach frame 4 of the shine and can therefore jump cancel.

So, even though 6 frames pass, the first 4 were all frame 1 of shine because of hitlag; this means that you don't reach frame 4 of shine (the jump cancellable part) until frame 7.

You can input the jump on frame 3 of the shine (inputs take effect the frame after they are made), and therefore you don't have to actually go through frame 4 of the shine since you can transition straight from frame 3 to jumpsquat; it's like with wavedashing where you go straight from jumpsquat to landing.

 

[reverie2]

You can't jump out of or turn around in shine on frames 1, 2, or 3 of the move; that's what the "inactionable frames" are.

Hitlag is the repeating of the animation of the frame a move connects on. You hit with frame 1 of the shine, so the hitlag animation is frame 1 of the shine (meaning frame 1 of the animation plays 4 times, on each of the 4 frames of hitlag). Then once hitlag ends you go through frame 2 and frame 3 of the shine (in which you can't do anything), then you reach frame 4 of the shine and can therefore jump cancel.

So, even though 6 frames pass, the first 4 were all frame 1 of shine because of hitlag; this means that you don't reach frame 4 of shine (the jump cancellable part) until frame 7.

You can input the jump on frame 3 of the shine (inputs take effect the frame after they are made), and therefore you don't have to actually go through frame 4 of the shine since you can transition straight from frame 3 to jumpsquat; it's like with wavedashing where you go straight from jumpsquat to landing.

Thanks, that makes it clear for me. I have 1 more question: if the victim is shielding, and a fox nairs (low) on shield, and shines immediately, can the victim buffer roll to escape the shine?

 

[Stride]

Thanks, that makes it clear for me. I have 1 more question: if the victim is shielding, and a fox nairs (low) on shield, and shines immediately, can the victim buffer roll to escape the shine?

The latest possible nair (where you land as soon as possible after hitting) is ±0 on hit/shield, so no; they will get hit out of the first frame of their roll.

 

[reverie2]

The latest possible nair (where you land as soon as possible after hitting) is ±0 on hit/shield, so no; they will get hit out of the first frame of their roll.

so practically speaking, they can't buffer the roll during nair hitstun to escape a shine grab followup. the only way to roll out of nair shine grab, is to buffer roll during the shine, or during a small number of frames during the grab startup (total of ~8 frame window), so it's extremely hard to roll out of nair shine grab unless you have superhuman reflexes, right?

Is it difficult to get the latest possible nair you described which can shine rolls? Or is that pretty easily done (doesnt necessarily have to be the exact latest possible nair)

 

[Stride]

so practically speaking, they can't buffer the roll during nair hitstun to escape a shine grab followup. the only way to roll out of nair shine grab, is to buffer roll during the shine, or during a small number of frames during the grab startup (total of ~8 frame window), so it's extremely hard to roll out of nair shine grab unless you have superhuman reflexes, right?

You can roll out of nair shine grab easily, you just have to do it on prediction. Shield pressure is mixup-based; you have the potential to cover everything, just not at once. After a shine: if they stay in shield you can grab them, if they roll you can follow it with a wavedash and punish it, if they jump or wavedash out you can nair them, and so on.

Is it difficult to get the latest possible nair you described which can shine rolls? Or is that pretty easily done (doesnt necessarily have to be the exact latest possible nair)

I don't think the latest nair is all that difficult to get (as 1 frame windows go), and getting a nair late enough that the shine will catch a buffered roll is easy. The problem is that it's not practical to use in a lot of circumstances, since there's no hitbox out except for that one frame before you land. You need to do higher aerials to cover space (offensively and defensively) properly.

Extremely late nair is largely reserved for use as a mixup when your opponent is shielding or otherwise restricted (by the ledge, on a platform, etc.), and therefore you jumping at them is threatening/dangerous enough that they have to respect it (you have a lot of options to mix up between, they have limited options to avoid/beat them, and them choosing the wrong option gets them punished potentially very hard). When the opponent doesn't have full control over when and how they get out of your pressure (like they do in neutral, where they're free to dash-dance, etc.), then things like mixing up empty land->grab and extremely late nair work (wavedash out or shieldgrab gets naired, and staying in shield gets grabbed).

In neutral, if you're jumping nearby the opponent without doing anything, and especially when you're jumping towards the opponent, then you're putting yourself in a very risky position. When you're in the air, you sacrifice a lot of your defensive options (most movement, crouch-cancel, shield) and therefore eliminate much of the risk of the opponent just hitting or grabbing you out of your jump; you want a hitbox out to protect you and force the opponent to respect you. In the case of Fox's nair specifically: it's not worthwhile to leave yourself vulnerable in the air for so long just for a slightly better frame advantage on shield, especially considering that a mid-height SHFFL nair basically accomplishes the same thing on hit as an extremely late SHFFL nair.

 

[FEOwain]

Marth Ditto
Opponent at around 10%
Uair can reliably combo into SH Nair, followed by Nairplane

 

[FE_Hector]

Wait... what in the world is the nairplane?

 

[Link24a]

Wait... what in the world is the nairplane?

Nairing someone all the way across the stage

 

[FE_Hector]

Sounds like we're pretending to be Mang0's Fox.

 

[Saint Shaden 009]

Wait... what in the world is the nairplane?

I'm gonna assume it's like Fox's Nairplane of jumping in with a Nair.

 

[SSB Pride]

I tend to use nair to techchase and when im chasing someone up to a platform (if that makes any sense)

 

[outofphase]

Standard uses for nair are zoning and comboing, but I like it to cover plaform techs at times. Nair>tipper on spacies on a platform gets me hard. They never expect it, always DI down trying to CC the nair, and end up dying at like 30%. Not very reliable, but 10/10 style. I have seen PP use it to cover tech in place, and its pretty good as an anti-air under the right circumstances. I don't really use nair outside its standard roles in serious play, just doesn't seem to be very consistent outside of them.

 

[FE_Hector]

If you're intuitive enough, it's possible to basically cover every single one of their options on the platform using nair and a grab. Basically, your nair catches tech in place, tech out, and missed tech 90% of the time. If it misses or they tech behind and you didn't read it, a well-timed nair will either be over or will have ACd for you, making one sexy little pivot grab give you the follow-up you were looking for anyways. Depending on %, though, I will sometimes opt for utilts or SHFFL uairs.