Good Secondary Pick for Falcon Mains

[タオー]

I was wondering what would be a good pick for a secondary character to train to counter some of Captain Falcons short-comings. I have two philosophies on the idea:

1. Use a character that can best counter Falcon's worst matchups (fox, falco, shiek)

2. Use a character that differs drastically in some fundamental way (weight class, fall rate, optimal play style, ect)

Any wisdom on this matter would be very welcome.

 

[Twinkles]

IMO
1. Falco
2. Sheik
3. Marth

0. Fox. If you secondary Fox, you will have to contend with the fact that fox is as good as or better in virtually every relevant mu than your main.

 

[Da Shuffla]

I am a strong proponent of solo-maining. If you have to change your character, then you risk getting counterpick-screwed by THEIR secondary. So, you still face a losing match-up, but with a character that you have less experience with.

I'd recommend changing your play style instead, much harder for your opponent to notice. Falcon has all the tools to win any match-up, you just will have to work harder than your opponent.

 

[タオー]

I am a strong proponent of solo-maining. If you have to change your character, then you risk getting counterpick-screwed by THEIR secondary. So, you still face a losing match-up, but with a character that you have less experience with.

I'd recommend changing your play style instead, much harder for your opponent to notice. Falcon has all the tools to win any match-up, you just will have to work harder than your opponent.

Do you know if there are any guides on the harder matchups (fox, falco, sheik, marth) other than what Scar has posted? I've read his thread and it's helpful, just wondering if there's more I should read up on.

 

[Zhea]

Falcon Index has basically everything worth reading. If you are playing Falcon, you shouldn't secondary anyone, because any character you secondary who is a top tier does what he does better.
Puff Get's whooped on just as hard by fox, but has better matchups everywhere else
Peach Get's whooped on by fox, sheik, marth and falcon, but beats falco and icies hard
Marth goes even with everyone except sheik and beats peach.
Sheik is literally a better falcon and only get's whooped on by fox.
Falco goes even with everyone and beats Falcon.
Fox Beats everyone falcon beats, but harder. Also lacks bad matchups.

Basically if you really want to avoid Sheik/Fox/Falco you should pick up Fox or Falco, but they are better in every way. So there is no point in dual maining unless you just want to be a fair weather falcon.

 

[タオー]

Falcon Index has basically everything worth reading. If you are playing Falcon, you shouldn't secondary anyone, because any character you secondary who is a top tier does what he does better.
Puff Get's whooped on just as hard by fox, but has better matchups everywhere else
Peach Get's whooped on by fox, sheik, marth and falcon, but beats falco and icies hard
Marth goes even with everyone except sheik and beats peach.
Sheik is literally a better falcon and only get's whooped on by fox.
Falco goes even with everyone and beats Falcon.
Fox Beats everyone falcon beats, but harder. Also lacks bad matchups.

Basically if you really want to avoid Sheik/Fox/Falco you should pick up Fox or Falco, but they are better in every way. So there is no point in dual maining unless you just want to be a fair weather falcon.

After about a week of extensive CF research, I've now realized that Falcon is a much better main than I had originally believed. I feel shameful for my lack of faith. May it never waver again.

 

[Twinkles]

not sure if i've ever seen any real falcon main use a secondary in tournament. even lord's phased out most of his spacies usage for falcon lol

 

[victra♥]

All the Falcon mains just stick it out with Falcon. Falcon can do it, the only 2 hard mu are Falco and Sheik imo but definitely manageable as Falcon.

 

[Da Shuffla]

Fox is pretty hard, too, but even that is 6/4 at worst. Falcon builds character. There are few feelings more rewarding than winning a losing matchup.

 

[タオー]

Fox is pretty hard, too, but even that is 6/4 at worst. Falcon builds character. There are few feelings more rewarding than winning a losing matchup.

So damn true. The mangasms associated with playing CF are way too hard to pass up.

 

[Phyanketto]

I main falcon, but I also have secondaries of Jigz and Marth. I feel like there aren't any matchups that I shouldn't be able to counterpick my way out of.

 

[Da Shuffla]

When you win a game, and someone correct me if I am wrong, it goes:

You ban a stage
Opponent picks stage
You pick character
Opponent picks character.

So, since you have to pick your character first, you can't be sure of what your opponent might throw out.

So, if you lose on the neutral, you have to win the above scenario.

Your team is solid, and seems to cover CF's "bad" match-ups pretty well, but keeping 3 tournament level characters is much harder than the gods make it look. In fact, only M2K/Mango have done it (just counting the characters they use against each other, since the gap between them and most of the community is so big)

 

[Drodeka]

I like Marth more than Falcon, but I am leagues better with Falcon. I solo mained Marth for about a month and I was convinced I was just as good or better with him than with Falcon.
Then I went back to Falcon.
Suddenly, I could Hax Dash consistently, I could act quickly in situations I used to hesitate in, my tech chase was leaps and bounds greater than with Marth. Everything I learned with Marth and the strengths I ended leaning into translated beautifully into Falcon and he has come back better than ever.

This may sound a bit silly, but I believe this to be true: some people that play Melee are simply destined to play Falcon.

He had been my favorite character until I developed my likeness for Marth. And while I still consider Marth a better and more visually appealing character, he doesn't even come close to my Falcon. I love Falcon, and I like to think Falcon at least likes me a bit.

Falcon summoned my hands and mind to control him on the Battlefield, and I will answer my call, out of respect for the one true Captain.

I recommend you do the same, boyo.

 

[タオー]

I like Marth more than Falcon, but I am leagues better with Falcon. I solo mained Marth for about a month and I was convinced I was just as good or better with him than with Falcon.
Then I went back to Falcon.
Suddenly, I could Hax Dash consistently, I could act quickly in situations I used to hesitate in, my tech chase was leaps and bounds greater than with Marth. Everything I learned with Marth and the strengths I ended leaning into translated beautifully into Falcon and he has come back better than ever.

This may sound a bit silly, but I believe this to be true: some people that play Melee are simply destined to play Falcon.

He had been my favorite character until I developed my likeness for Marth. And while I still consider Marth a better and more visually appealing character, he doesn't even come close to my Falcon. I love Falcon, and I like to think Falcon at least likes me a bit.

Falcon summoned my hands and mind to control him on the Battlefield, and I will answer my call, out of respect for the one true Captain.

I recommend you do the same, boyo.

I feel you, the Falcon calls to us all, it is our duty to answer.

On that note, do you think toying around with some other characters (fox, marth, falco, sheik, IC, ect) is a good way to better develop your Falcon game? I know I picked up IC for a few days and my wavedashing with Falcon drastically improved. That was a bit of what I was going for in this thread, do you feel that playing characters that demand different movement techniques and mix ups can contribute to unleashing the Falcon more than just using Falcon all day every day?

 

[Drodeka]

Yes, I think it can be healthy for your play. Playing them in a less competitive context but still trying your best with them and developing skill with them can transfer over. And because of how much I played Marth, I'll probably still use him in the Fox matchup some time.
I can handle Falco with Falcon, but Fox can be just too much sometimes if I get a small stage.

EDIT: Also I understand the Marth matchup about 3x better AS Falcon, so there's that. It can help matchup knowledge when you've personally felt what it's like to be that character and are able to understand not only what they are trying to do, but WHY. WHAT is important for predictions/reading, but WHY is important for mindgames/strategy.

 

[タオー]

Yes, I think it can be healthy for your play. Playing them in a less competitive context but still trying your best with them and developing skill with them can transfer over. And because of how much I played Marth, I'll probably still use him in the Fox matchup some time.
I can handle Falco with Falcon, but Fox can be just too much sometimes if I get a small stage.

EDIT: Also I understand the Marth matchup about 3x better AS Falcon, so there's that. It can help matchup knowledge when you've personally felt what it's like to be that character and are able to understand not only what they are trying to do, but WHY. WHAT is important for predictions/reading, but WHY is important for mindgames/strategy.

Looks like I'm picking up Falco for research purposes

 

[Thor]

I'd avoid picking up Falco, you probably just won't go back. Unless he's just too slow for you.

As far as backups go, ICs can deal with Falco and Sheik better than Falcon can, so they may be worth looking into (if you learn Wobbling you might not go back, but it doesn't seem likely since your main still stomps them to death relatively well, and Wobbling might feel boring to a true Falcon main, even if it is satisfying landing charged smashes at 200%). They don't have a terribly fun time against Fox but if you can net grabs well they probably perform better than Falcon by a lot. They also lose to Peach rather hard (but CF can handle that floater fine).

 

[Drodeka]

Looks like I'm picking up Falco for research purposes

I have a pocket Falco (I have a pocket everybody) and the only reasons I don't main him are that I like Falcon and Marth more, and I don't really want to be a Spacy player (hipsterrr).
Falco is better than Falcon and it's really apparent when I play him.

 

[Nicco]

As others have said: If you wanna get really good with Falcon, you need to focus on him! I do recommend practicing Fox' shffling to the point where you can aerial > shine indefinitely with hitlag on lightning melee. This will make your Falcon's shffling alot more crispy. Don't forget to keep practicing Falcon's shffling with hitlag tho! Fox may have a harder time short hopping, but Falcon needs to focus alot more on fast-fall timing. You will want the second hit of the nair to hit as low as possible to have as good shield pressure as possible and to give yourself more time for follow-ups.

 

[Jeapie]

Sub charackters for Falcon.

1 Falcon
2 Falcon
3 Captain, Falcon.

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

The god has spoken and revealed the secrets.

 

[Hee443]

For some reason as odd as this may be, I decided to play Ganon for about an hour during friendlies once, then I switched to Falcon and I felt so much more crisp and quick, not sure why with Ganon as he is so slow.

 

[Bobojack]

This Video explains, why picking Fox as a secondary for CF is a bad idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4VTpeXJLKA

 

[menotyou135]

Why not just go azen and main all the characters?

 

[AnAngryPotato]

I used to main Marth and use Falcon as a secondary but now I do the opposite because i really want to get good as Falcon.

 

[LaFlame]

I think Marth is the best back up for Falcon. Useful to deal with fox/falcos giving you trouble and fairly easy to get the hang of him quickly

 

[Spak]

Roy. Used for fun and when my Falcon is too good.

 

[DraculaSb]

Based on my signature, I secondary significantly worse characters than C.Falcon because they're fun imo and have helped my captain. Vise-versa. I can waveland consistently with CF because of Ganon wavelanding. Link has helped me with moonwalk and how to deliberately plan ahead. I know how to play some Marth and Fox but I could never drop my true main Captain Falcon. He is the King of Hype. You just have to believe in his and your own ability to win.