Gods please help me vs Falco

[oopsy]

My friend completely sodomizes me when he goes Falco. He's the kind of player that doesn't grab often and loves laser approaching. So much so that if I try to wavedash back I just get hit by a laser and Naired/pillared/ combo'd. His tech and his matchup knowledge makes me want to ragequit every time we play.

If I wavedash forward i just eat a Nair. My movement is so boned when I play him, I can't move around at all. My first thought was using platforms to maneuver around but then I kept getting rocked because I don't actually know when I'm supposed to waveland and use platforms.

Then I tried Short-hop Nairs to meet with his Dair. And that kind of worked but he still got the best of me most times. After that 'adjustment', the matches weren't as bad. But I lost 90% of them.

The only thing that was consistent was the up B out of shield, but that was literally it. What am I supposed to do?

My playstyle is more offensive-minded and I don't depend on my shield as much as some do.

Idk, I'm just trying to provide as much info as I can but yeah.

Ye Gods, please help this Canadian boy.

 

[Thor]

My friend completely sodomizes me when he goes Falco. He's the kind of player that doesn't grab often and loves laser approaching. So much so that if I try to wavedash back I just get hit by a laser and Naired/pillared/ combo'd. His tech and his matchup knowledge makes me want to ragequit every time we play.

If I wavedash forward i just eat a Nair. My movement is so boned when I play him, I can't move around at all. My first thought was using platforms to maneuver around but then I kept getting rocked because I don't actually know when I'm supposed to waveland and use platforms.

Then I tried Short-hop Nairs to meet with his Dair. And that kind of worked but he still got the best of me most times. After that 'adjustment', the matches weren't as bad. But I lost 90% of them.

The only thing that was consistent was the up B out of shield, but that was literally it. What am I supposed to do?

My playstyle is more offensive-minded and I don't depend on my shield as much as some do.

Idk, I'm just trying to provide as much info as I can but yeah.

Ye Gods, please help this Canadian boy.

Not gonna bother tagging PPMD, Hbox, Armada, M2K, or Mango, because the title probably wasn't literal

I don't exactly main Samus, but I don't think Falco actually gets THAT much out of a grab [especially at higher percents], and if your friend grabs rarely, just shield a lot. Try to powershield lasers and if it works? Boom, laser to his chest, and you can make something of that [wavedash forward on prediction of success and punish, or at least slow his momentum if you're inconsistent but it worked]. If it doesn't? You still have decent OoS options as Samus [better than some anyway], and you didn't get laser'd.
You have up+b OoS, so if he's pressuring a lot, use it. If he's not accustomed to shield pressure [that is, if it has clear holes or he messes up a lot], you can also get all sorts of nair OoS for free [nair is fast and Samus has a quick jumpsquat if memory serves, so this option is pretty good as her].

I don't know that I understand your platform problem, but I would state that you should really just run to a platform is you have a low shield and he's just lasering from afar. If he's stupid and does a rising fullhop dair, nair, or bair, you can shield and nair, uair, or bair him for it. If you can do platform cancelled missiles, doing homing and super when appropriate [ie when one is the only option doing that one, or when both are options, picking super or homing to make it likely to hit him or interfere] is going to help vs lasers. Lasers are annoying, but 4 of them is like 10%, so just making sure not to get caught up in combos is good.

As for general MU advice, I would suggest simply trying to avoid playing Falco's game - kick him offstage as much as possible, try to avoid letting him start a lot of onstage stuff. Also CC all his dairs/etc. at low percents and try to dsmash. Shine can't be CC'd (...) but everything else can, and since he has to be airborne to do an aerial, as long as you avoid laser -> shine [he'll doubtless do this a lot if he's really that good], you can CC after the laser, get a dsmash, and then figure out where to go from there.

Also you really shouldn't be getting gimped in this MU [SDI is sweet], so if you are, you need to be less predictable [since he'd be going out there, which as Falco is suicide], or else try to work on SDI-teching and sweetspotting [since sweetspotting will make dair harder to hit and dsmash/fsmash require better timing, and SDI-teching allows you to survive those moves]. If you don't know what those things are, I can explain in a later post, but I don't feel like doing so now.

 

[oopsy]

Not gonna bother tagging PPMD, Hbox, Armada, M2K, or Mango, because the title probably wasn't literal

I don't exactly main Samus, but I don't think Falco actually gets THAT much out of a grab [especially at higher percents], and if your friend grabs rarely, just shield a lot. Try to powershield lasers and if it works? Boom, laser to his chest, and you can make something of that [wavedash forward on prediction of success and punish, or at least slow his momentum if you're inconsistent but it worked]. If it doesn't? You still have decent OoS options as Samus [better than some anyway], and you didn't get laser'd.
You have up+b OoS, so if he's pressuring a lot, use it. If he's not accustomed to shield pressure [that is, if it has clear holes or he messes up a lot], you can also get all sorts of nair OoS for free [nair is fast and Samus has a quick jumpsquat if memory serves, so this option is pretty good as her].

I don't know that I understand your platform problem, but I would state that you should really just run to a platform is you have a low shield and he's just lasering from afar. If he's stupid and does a rising fullhop dair, nair, or bair, you can shield and nair, uair, or bair him for it. If you can do platform cancelled missiles, doing homing and super when appropriate [ie when one is the only option doing that one, or when both are options, picking super or homing to make it likely to hit him or interfere] is going to help vs lasers. Lasers are annoying, but 4 of them is like 10%, so just making sure not to get caught up in combos is good.

As for general MU advice, I would suggest simply trying to avoid playing Falco's game - kick him offstage as much as possible, try to avoid letting him start a lot of onstage stuff. Also CC all his dairs/etc. at low percents and try to dsmash. Shine can't be CC'd (...) but everything else can, and since he has to be airborne to do an aerial, as long as you avoid laser -> shine [he'll doubtless do this a lot if he's really that good], you can CC after the laser, get a dsmash, and then figure out where to go from there.

Also you really shouldn't be getting gimped in this MU [SDI is sweet], so if you are, you need to be less predictable [since he'd be going out there, which as Falco is suicide], or else try to work on SDI-teching and sweetspotting [since sweetspotting will make dair harder to hit and dsmash/fsmash require better timing, and SDI-teching allows you to survive those moves]. If you don't know what those things are, I can explain in a later post, but I don't feel like doing so now.

He pressures hardcore... He knows the matchup like crazy, I didn't think of nairing out of shield...

I don't know if he would bite if i just shielded on a platform. I'll see if i can punish that.

I've tried to CC but yeah he always shines and i get boned. its mostly him laser- dair i think. So yeah i should cc more... SDI is smash DI right? And that's like DI'ing the second you get hit or something? I'm pretty new to smash DI.

Thanks for the quick reply by the way!

 

[JerkPhil]

Powershield his lasers
UpB OoS his pressure
Pressure him back with spaced jabs and Ftilts. A cornered Falco is a sad Falco.
An off stage Falco is an even sadder Falco.
Missile cancel and see what he does.
If he tends to shield, punish the shield with grab or bomb pressure.
If he tends to jump, call that jump and punish with Fair or something.
If he tends to shine, jump and Dair him while he's in shine lag.
Etc. etc.

 

[343]

oopsy, if you could show us a recording it'd be great

 

[Valar Morghulis]

get on platforms, when falco jumps up to attack you on the platform, drop through and then Uair. Alot of times they end up falling or teching on the platform and you can fall through again and Uair again. Good way to rack up some percent on Falco. Don't go to Final Destination against Falco. Fountain of Dreams and Dreamland are the best stages in this matchup.

 

[oopsy]

Powershield his lasers
UpB OoS his pressure
Pressure him back with spaced jabs and Ftilts. A cornered Falco is a sad Falco.
An off stage Falco is an even sadder Falco.
Missile cancel and see what he does.
If he tends to shield, punish the shield with grab or bomb pressure.
If he tends to jump, call that jump and punish with Fair or something.
If he tends to shine, jump and Dair him while he's in shine lag.
Etc. etc.

so i can try pressuring with missile cancels, okay.. and to avoiding eating lasers i should try powershielding. What about about dodging? Or is that a slower option? Those are all really good ideas. thanks!

oopsy, if you could show us a recording it'd be great

Maybe I can, he has a capture card, I'll see what I can do!

get on platforms, when falco jumps up to attack you on the platform, drop through and then Uair. Alot of times they end up falling or teching on the platform and you can fall through again and Uair again. Good way to rack up some percent on Falco. Don't go to Final Destination against Falco. Fountain of Dreams and Dreamland are the best stages in this matchup.

sounds good! i never tried that. thanks,

we're playing again today so ill let you guys know if i did better

 

[343]

spotdodging lasers is probably not a good idea, since you're in a lot more lag after spotdodging than he is after sh lasering

it's also been suggested (by Fly, for example) that if you're uncomfortable with powershielding and you think he's going to approach after a laser, you can crouch the laser and be in hitstun for less time, then act

 

[oopsy]

alright sooo, I don't have any recorded matches but I tried to wavedash out of shield to not get smacked by lasers and that seemed to work. One big thing I had trouble was when I tried to Shield on a platform and wanted to bait him so i could nair OoS i kept missing my punishes. The wins were more evenly distributed but still in his favor. Thanks for the advice guys!

in other news, there was a tourney and I came 3rd. The guy who I lost to in WF just straight up played so much smarter than I did and i couldn't land anything I wanted to land. I asked my buddy and he said it all comes down to experience.
I won't have an opportunity to practice against the guy who beat me, so now I guess I gotta figure out how to play smarter?

 

[JerkPhil]

Congratulations

Yeah, if you get outsmarted, you pretty much have to get smarter yourself. Recordings really help, as you can see and analyze every time you get outsmarted and figure out what to do instead. Otherwise, yeah really have to just try to remember some situations that may have occured more often that others, and if you maybe did the same mistake multiple times.

 

[343]

One big thing I had trouble was when I tried to Shield on a platform and wanted to bait him so i could nair OoS i kept missing my punishes.

shielddrop aerial!!

and good to hear you're playing better keep at it!

 

[oopsy]

Shield drop aerial? That sounds really good!
How good is Wave dashing out of shield-> dsmash? I'm finding it really useful. When his falco is trying to dair me i can catch him with it like everytime i land it. I still flub a lot of my wd OoS's though DX

thanks everyone!

 

[Mattyboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXAPl2gUew4
HugS - Samus vs Frootloop - Falco Losers Semis Sweet Prologue

Hugo plays this match up quite well (apart from the first game). Basically just look for how he gets into the situations that he does; How does he win the neutral? How is he starting/extending/finishing combos? How does he setup his tech chases? How is he successfully edge guarding?

The commentators make a great point during the match and say that in this match up in particular, Samus has to be comfortable not controlling the stage. Against this style of Falco if you're not consistently power shielding lasers then you're gonna be spending some time in shield waiting to either WD OOS or up-b OOS.
Personally in this match up I don't worry about getting grabbed too much, as Falco doesn't get much off of his throws against you other than stage positioning. From this position, you can condition your opponent into believing that he can grab you every time that you're not up-bing OOS for free, setting you up for some brutal WD back d-tilt or grab punishes.

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

an aggressive falco is more prone to make mistakes than a defensive falco but when a falco does use aggression he can zone samus out perfectly

simply put, you must be willing to make and take trades. a falco with any% on you is dangerous, but you need % on falco to combo him and get him off the edge. in this sit i'd advise ftilting straight into the lasers, he might hit you on the first one but he'll for sure get hit by the second, that's a win for you. all other options fail on a perfect falco, samus' tankiness is the key to win here.

 

[oopsy]

BUUMP!
I've gotten back into it and I know I'm gonna be playing my falco buddies again. I was practicing a bit tonight.
In what situations are double missiles best used against spacies?
are they useful at all against them?

 

[dietsnapple89]

BUUMP!
I've gotten back into it and I know I'm gonna be playing my falco buddies again. I was practicing a bit tonight.
In what situations are double missiles best used against spacies?
are they useful at all against them?

when Fox and Falco are off stage, if they are a good distance away, then you should short hop homing missile from the ground onto a platform then fall through and shoot smash missile at them. If they use firefox the homing missile can knock them out of it. If they try to firefox/illusion again, many time they will be at the same height as where you shot the smash missile, so then they will get hit again. This edgeguard works well against spacie players with little Samus experience.

Double missile against Falco is kind of difficult if they are spaming short hop lasers because when you try shooting the missile while coming down from platform, the laser will knock you out of it. It works better against Fox since his lasers don't stun, however since he is faster, if he avoids them he's gonna come at you with a punish real quick. In general though, when they are off stage above the level of the edge, then spamming double missiles is a good way to apply pressure so that they may mess up their recovery.

 

[BBOY15]

For me, it's important to stay on the ground while I memorize my opponent's tendencies. When you get assaulted by lasers, don't panic. Find a way to approach without getting frustrated and jumping over everything. If you do that, you're falling right into his trap. Only Nair approach when you're predicting that he will jump into you. If you find yourself getting hit by some lasers, it doesn't mean you're doing something wrong. Samus is the hardest character in the game to kill; remember that you can afford to take a few hits. Just make sure you don't give up your position while you approach, and don't let his lasers lead into something else. Good approaches include wavedash forward into F-tilt, wavedash forward into down smash, Nair (when you think he'll jump), and dash attack (sometimes).

Question for you guys: What do you do against a falco that will DI to escape Samus's up-B every time? When I try to up-B out of shield, falcos will escape the up-b at the beginning of it, and it will only do like 1% on them. I think they're smash DI-ing.

 

[343]

well, don't upb as predictably, and aim your upb toward them.

 

[BBOY15]

well, don't upb as predictably, and aim your upb toward them.

Wow. I can't believe I never thought of aiming my up-b. I've always just thought of it as a vertical attack. Obviously, I aim it for recovery, but now I'm going to try this out of shield.