gnw vs lucario stuff (since there's no matchup export)

[Vinnie]

Me vs Zucco at Krank Dat Kosha on Nov 14.

Match 1 <--- got *****.
Match 2
Match 3

Zucco is ranked 5th in NJ.

The Lucario matchup is soo weird... he can combo you so hard, I couldn't SDI or up b out of it. He can roll behind everything you do -> ****.

His fsmash has incredible range, and if you shield it, he just throws another one out at you.

You CAN punish his dair with up b oos but I was a ******* and tried to dsmash or something lol. I'm not sure if you can punish with nair oos but it could happen.

First match, I got ***** my 1st stock and into my 2nd stock, so instead on focusing on winning the match, I just did a bunch of stuff to see how he'd react.

-he SDIs out of my turtle and does side b, or dair
-SDIs out of nair to dair
-goes for grabs often
-charged aura sphere, if you try to attack he will roll back
-rolls behind turtle
-fsmashes when you make a move at the edge

I used this information in my 2nd and 3rd match, I started making a comeback match 3 but couldn't finish it :[. Lmk what you guys think about the matches or the actual matchup.

 

[PentaSalia]

nice matches...tho
match 3
you could have done a way better job reading those rolls/techrolls
if you have,you might have been able to rack up good damage on first stock and kill him earlier at second stock x_x

but for your first time,you seemed to know how to handle the match up wello.o
liked the way you read his dodges

also you could have been more patient on getting back on stage during your first stock D:

P.S: he was a bit aggro at first which was surprising o.O

 

[Kitamerby]

Is this the first time you've played the Lucario matchup/against Zucco?

You handled yourself AMAZINGLY against him, seriously. If this was your first time, you did very, very well against him. I'm sure you could win next time. :D

I like you, so here're some tips you may not have known that might help you against Lucario.

Firstly, his regular roll doesn't have as much invincibility frames as it looks like. He actually loses invincibility frames almost as soon as he comes to a stop at the end of his roll. (although it's still the best in the game for invincibility to vulnerability ratio). He's vulnerable for about... 8 frames at the end of it for you to punish with whatever attack that you like, preferably one with lingers, or a timed grab. Both back roll and forwards roll are the same speed, length, and invincibility.

Secondly, I love how you baited fsmashes, then punished with dtilt oos. You did the perfect, safest response to Fsmash possible. Lucario's fsmash actually does have a slight shield disadvantage on block (by about -12 on shield drop at 0% to -9 on shield drop at 170%, to -8 on shield drop from a tipper at 170%. Don't try to punish tippers on your shield past like 80%). By using dtilt, the amount of shield push from a non-tippered fsmash usually isn't enough to send you out of dtilt's range, so you should definitely think about that again in the future against Fsmash-happy Lucarios. This is definitely the safest way to punish that fsmash. (Running in with a shield into close range, preferably past the tipper, then punishing with dtilt oos.) As you may have noticed, though, up until mid %s, you can also shieldgrab non-tipper fsmashes. Also, as shown at 2:19 in match 2, you can sometimes get a little riskier with your punishes on shielded non-tipper fsmashes occasionally and go for a dsmash sweet.

If you want to be a bit more risky, though, know that the vertical range close to him on Fsmash is actually very poor. You actually might be able to hop over his fsmash during the startup with a full jump, then Dair him during the move itself while he's committed, since GnW is so fast in the air. (I noticed some times you could've done this in the matches, when you were above him within your dair range as his fsmash was starting up.) If you can move far enough past him (Possible since he steps forwards), you can probably even bair his back! Even if you aren't jumping, just try to remember that GnW's air speed and Dair range > Fsmash, so don't be afraid of Dairing him if you find yourself nearby above him as he uses fsmash.

The riskiest option to punish Fsmash, but probably the most rewarding though and should only be used very occasionally, is to use your own Fsmash at close range, and take advantage of the fact that before Lucario's fsmash comes out, he takes a step forwards, and combine that with your own Fsmash's linger and speed. You sort of need a specific spacing to do this. You did this at 3:47 in the first match, but it was probably not intentional. Believe it or not, this actually can work very rarely if you predict a fsmash, but if you fail, you'll be hit hard. High risk/high reward, meh. Probably best to stick with the shield to dtilt, or just dtilt to punish the step forwards instead for the sake of safety. It doesn't have the sheer mind****ery of that fsmash, though.



Also, fsmash image for reference on its disjoint. He started the fsmash basically where his back foot is.

Also, against lesser Lucario players than Zucco, you may want to experiment with Dsmash unsweet more and trying to gimp Luc at lower or mid %s. Luc's recovery is really punishable, since he neither outspeeds, outmaneuvers, or outranges GnW in the air, and if you hit him out of his jump with an aerial, you can gimp him however you like out of his Extremespeed.

Seriously, though, you adapted to Zucco extremely well. I'm really impressed. Beat him next time for me, kay? =D

 

[Vinnie]

Thanks a lot KitaMerby, that really helped.

 

[Novabound]

2 Quick things.

One, how did you get your smashboards name changed?

And B, I saw 100% less oils than I thought I would. Given, not every sphere was safely bucketable, I saw quite a few really far off the stage that you could bucket before being punished.

I've fought random lucarios before, and one thing that I've found useful is Uair and Ftilt. While they go C-stick happy dairing you (though I didn't see Zucco do it at all...) you Uair stall the balls out of Lucario. Neither of you are taking damage, but your moves are getting stronger. As you may have noticed, Lucario has no problem surviving and strangely high percents for his weight class. So they also get comfortable DIing really high just to float down comfortably. When Lucario starts getting to that 1XX% range, dthrow ->Techchase to ftilt is suuuuuuuuuuuuper easy to pull off, and sends them at a hideous angle off the stage. Hideous due to Lucario's poor recovery. Also, weak aura spheres clink with the uair's air boxes.

Your choice of brinstar made me :3. I love brinstar for GaW.

Edit: You did fantastic btw. You really did just flat out osmosis the matchup in 3 matches.