Give me an argument on why Sonic should not get a second rep. Mainly curious to talk to those who don't want it to happen.

[Mastermiine]

As some one who wants Sonic to have 4 (Sonic, Shadow, Silver, Tails) I am always on the threads who support them so I am curious as to why you guys have said opinion.

Also break these characters down cuz why not.

Tails (Echo and non echo)
Shadow (Echo and non echo)
Silver

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Because that rep wouldn't be Knuckles

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Sonic's moveset is already boring.

 

[Astroworld]

I really dislike the Sonic series and all of its characters. Also Sonic has one of the worst movesets and those guys would most likely be echoes

 

[StormC]

My argument is the next Sonic character should be Dr. Eggman.

 

[slambros]

I am in support of it, but it's fun to think hypothetically and think about what an argument against this could be.

One could be a fan-rule that's at least been half-broken by Simon and his Echo, Ritcher: third party franchises should be relegated to only one character each. This could still mean that the arguee may be accepting of Shadow or Metal Sonic as an Echo for Sonic due to past events, but he or she would not be up for a rep with a from-the-ground-up moveset, whether it's for Tails, Amy, Eggman, or someone else.

This might not be too good of an argument, but if the arguee were a SEGA fan, they may argue that SEGA franchises as a whole deserve there own separate Smash Bros type of game, and that giving a slot to another one would cause that possibility to dry up.

Those are the only two I can think of other than personal bias. If I were biased against this, I'd probably be able to think of another argument.

 

[UserKev]

If it isn't Eggman or Tails now that Knuckles is de-confirmed, the characters are ultimately copy paste designed. I don't believe Shadow should be included because he's so fan service, he kills the concept. I also feel like SEGA is a slave to its fan base. Every Sonic character other than Eggman, Tails and Knuckles feel like filler, honestly.

 

[jamesster445]

Sonic as a franchise is known now more than ever for its mediocrity. It took a fan game to make people remember that Sonic was ever good.
I find Sonic's design in Smash already boring and I don't think that other Sonic characters will improve it by much.
Sonic fans don't even like Sonic's friends so why should they even be in Smash.
And most important, I'm just not a Sonic fan.

 

[volbound1700]

My argument is the next Sonic character should be Dr. Eggman.

I disagree. It should be Tails, Luigi was in Smash before Bowser.

 

[Ridrool64]

I won't be after a while, but right now I'm the only one here to outright say that there's another SEGA character I'd much prefer over Tails, Silver, or unique!Shadow. And that's Arle.

I really feel like Arle will be compromised simply by a second unique Sonic character.

 

[Vingag]

I have a few arguments. First, the one that had technically been disproved before Simon: Third parties should have one representative each (Bayonetta is published by SEGA, so I count her as a second SEGA rep). Now that we have a clearer exception (Simon and the inexplicable Richter), I'm a little more lenient to have more third party reps.

However- and again Simon completely throws this argument out the window- I believe we're going to be getting mostly first and second party character in Ultimate. As much as we all like to think otherwise, Smash is a Nintendo game that is meant to represent Nintendo and get people excited about Nintendo, it's not a SEGA game. There are limited spots available in Ultimate even with echoes, and I believe we're more likely to get more first party representation before we get another Sonic rep.

Finally, and most superficial of all, I find most sonic characters irritating and many of them wouldn't have too unique of movesets from Sonic. The two exceptions to this are the two most likely candidates for a second Sonic rep: Tails and Eggman.

All of this being said, with Ultimate looking more and more like it will include fan favorites I can see Shadow being included as an echo. I don't think this is what anyone wants, but I think it's what we'll get. After all, Shadow is basically Dark Sonic and it'll go along fine with Dark Pit, Dark Samus, and the upcoming echo fighter: Dark Link (because if there's one thing Smash Ultimate needs, it's more Links!).

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Personally I just want new blood before anything, new IPs that deserve a spot.

 

[chilledcalories]

Sonic is already not fun to play. I can't imagine having that times four.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Why should nintendo continue to prop up and help a historically terrible franchise.

Sonic was good in its hey day when it actually was a rival to nintendo and mario platforming. But the nod to Sonic is all that is needed, not more then that.

You have to remember nintendo is likely paying a royalty of some sort to have third party characters. I dont see why you would help another company for a character who isn’t an icon like Sonic himself.

 

[Kirbyfan391]

I prefer first party franchises getting their due first before third party, and preferably unrepresented first party, of which there still is a few. Also Sonic alone does really well as an ambassador of his series, I don't see much need for another.

 

[Captain Shades]

Can’t see anything against Sonic, he’s definitely the most deserving and important 3rd party franchise in Smash, so a character or to, like an original and echo wouldn’t hurt. I’d personally want a Shadow Echo along with Eggman being an original fighter.

 

[chilledcalories]

Can’t see anything against Sonic, he’s definitely the most deserving and important 3rd party franchise in Smash, so a character or to, like an original and echo wouldn’t hurt. I’d personally want a Shadow Echo along with Eggman being an original fighter.

My guy, no he isn't. Sonic is faaaar past his prime. There's not really much to the "Sonic" brand anymore besides the nostalgia it can garner. The character itself isn't even that fun to play in Smash.

 

[Captain Shades]

My guy, no he isn't. Sonic is faaaar past his prime. There's not really much to the "Sonic" brand anymore besides the nostalgia it can garner. The character itself isn't even that fun to play in Smash.

To be fair, many of the franchises in Smash are far past their prime at this point, Street Fighter took a hit with V, Mega Man wasn’t doing much besides retro throwbacks, I can’t think of any notable thing Pac-Man has done in recent times besides his horrid Disney show, Metal Gear is probably going to die under Konami, Final Fantasy seems to be over complicating everything to a point where the games take an eternity to make, and Castlevania had maybe a Netflix show or something, other wise that franchise hasn’t really been the talk of the town for years.

Sonic was a big deal as Sega was Nintendo’s competitor for a decade, so to see the two rivals come together in Smash was huge. There wasn’t a bigger reveal than Sonic in Smash’s history, plus with Sonic being in every entry since Brawl I think he earns his position to be able to bring in some more members.

 

[chilledcalories]

It was huge a decade ago when Brawl came out. I think you need to take your nostalgia glasses off.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Sonic is like this ex boyfriend you keep seing now and then. Love at first sight it was great at first, then he hurt you and you parted. Now every time you cross his way it may bring back some nice memories but you know it's over.
Edit : And you never liked his friends.

 

[Altais]

Prior to Richter Belmont's reveal, I was opposed to having more than one third-party character from the same franchise, as I was worried it would create a backlash. But now that that boundary has officially been crossed, I'm not against seeing a second Sonic character, whom will likely be an Echo Fighter. Mine money is on Shadow or Tails.

 

[Captain Shades]

It was huge a decade ago when Brawl came out. I think you need to take your nostalgia glasses off.

I didn’t know anything about Nintendo, Smash, or Sega until I bought Brawl randomly as another title on my Wii, so there’s no nostalgia for the reveal. The reveal is considered by fans to be the biggest as no 3rd party has gotten the amazing response that Sonic has gotten. Sonic symbolizes the coming together of two companies that were rivals for a full decade, the two that influenced the first console war, but now they are finally working together as partners. That’s a huge deal. The only thing that can come close to topping that is if a Microsoft character gets in.

Sonic is like this ex boyfriend you keep seing now and then. Love at first sight it was great at first, then he hurt you and you parted. Now every time you cross his way it may bring back some nice memories but you know it's over.
Edit : And you never liked his friends.

Not exactly. Sonic’s track record is faulty, but he’s done good. Mania, Generations, Colors, even some of the Boom 3DS titles are all considered good. If we go off spin offs, then the Sega racing titles are phenomenal, way better than Mario Kart, and the LEGO Dimensions level was hilarious and a fun romp through Sonic’s world. Include great shows like Boom and Sonic has potential even nowadays. Not to mention the fact that Sega treats their fans better than Nintendo by allowing fan games to flourish, and having a good sense of humor about their mistakes.

 

[chilledcalories]

Prior to Richter Belmont's reveal, I was opposed to having more than one third-party character from the same franchise, as I was worried it would create a backlash. But now that that boundary has officially been crossed, I'm not against seeing a second Sonic character, whom will likely be an Echo Fighter. Mine money is on Shadow or Tails.

confirmed: the only people who want more sonic characters are those likely to jump from one bandwagon to the next

 

[chilledcalories]

I didn’t know anything about Nintendo, Smash, or Sega until I bought Brawl randomly as another title on my Wii, so there’s no nostalgia for the reveal. The reveal is considered by fans to be the biggest as no 3rd party has gotten the amazing response that Sonic has gotten. Sonic symbolizes the coming together of two companies that were rivals for a full decade, the two that influenced the first console war, but now they are finally working together as partners. That’s a huge deal. The only thing that can come close to topping that is if a Microsoft character gets in.

I think Sonic was enough to create the "finally working together" vibe, they don't need to add characters that most people do not want.

 

[Mastermiine]

confirmed: the only people who want more sonic characters are those likely to jump from one bandwagon to the next

I am not responding to people on these threads because the intention was for me to not argue with peoples opinions but "only" is a big word.

I've always wanted more sonic reps since brawl.

 

[Captain Shades]

I think Sonic was enough to create the "finally working together" vibe, they don't need to add characters that most people do not want.

Umm.. Who said people don’t want more reps from the franchise. Shadow has been a big pick for years same with Knuckles, Tails, Eggman, and Amy. Sonic characters are really the most recognizable 3rd party supporting cast members that Smash could add outside of Mrs. Pac-Man or Chun Li as Sonic is a huge franchise that millions have seen in some fashion. I really see no reason to not have another member of his cast join if Castlevania can get Richter, a character not many outside of Japan know. With the introduction of echos, the potential for Sonic to finally have a buddy, or rival has gone up tremendously, so I’d be happy to see a new face from the franchise.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

It was huge a decade ago when Brawl came out. I think you need to take your nostalgia glasses off.

Isn't Smash practically built on nostalgia? I can't think of a more nostalgic move than "we brought back all your favorite characters from the past 15 years."


I get Sonic has its detractors but it also has a huge install base. It shouldn't matter why Sonic Mania was a massive success, just the fact that it was a massive success is a statement in itself. I also find it odd that people are so quick to bandwagon on whether Sonic is a good or bad franchise based on one or two current games. The fact is he has had recent good games and other games which where lackluster or worse. People may not be as excited about Sonic as they were back in Brawl but that's only because he's expected at this point. A lot of people hate going against his playstyle, but a lot more people just enjoy his inclusion overall.

Personally I prefered 3rd party games to only have one rep as a sort of guest status, but now that Richter has been added, that clearly doesn't exsist anymore so I don't care either way. Shadow could be an echo; it makes little difference to anything. However if Sonic were to get a second unique rep, it should be left at that, I believe the focus should be on nintendo properties. Personally I would have enjoyed a playable Knuckles. Tails just seems like a character I wouldn't have fun with and Eggman just seems like another version of Bowser Jr. As for Silver, I just don't like the character. His personality and story are both muddled, he's not that important to the series' history, and there are just cooler psychic characters to choose from.

Finally, adding a second or third rep doesn't necessarily mean that they will play the same. That's a baseles assumption.

 

[StormC]

I disagree. It should be Tails, Luigi was in Smash before Bowser.

Eggman and Sonic were in the first game together, unlike Luigi who came before Bowser. Eggman also has a vastly more interesting moveset potential.

 

[Souldin]

My sentiments are much the same as Kirbyfan391 . When it comes to Super Smash Bros, my want is always for First Party Inclusions, even if there are plenty of 3rd party games and IPs that I do like (such as the Sonic series, which I enjoy and like the characters of, but don't want playable in Super Smash Bros).

I suppose I wouldn't mind Echoes as much, given they appear to take significantly less development time and are mostly just skins with their own slots, but to a degree that always feels like a disservice to the included character.

 

[Altais]

confirmed: the only people who want more sonic characters are those likely to jump from one bandwagon to the next

I really should have re-thought mine words. What I really meant to say was, now that the unwritten rule has been broken, I won't be surprised or upset if we do get Shadow or Tails as an Echo Fighter--especially given how popular the series is. Since I'm terrible with Sonic anyway, I'll likely be indifferent to their reveal. As someone whom constantly second-guesses things, I am not one whom is easily swayed. We all believe in many things, but seldom do we question those beliefs enough to see them through.

Just because I was opposed to the idea doesn't mean I didn't think it would be cool to have more than one character. That said, I've always wanted both Gunvolt and Copen as playable characters, but in the end thought two Gunvolt characters was pushing it--especially given how obscure the series is. But back to Sonic: While most people seem to be going for Tails or Knuckles as a second character, I personally think Robotnik would be more unique, in terms of moveset. Like Koopa Jr, he would take less damage if his Eggmobile was hit, but the similarities would end there.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Just to agonize SEGA. Make them create their own bloody Smash game.

SEGA does have the historical line-up and creativity. They made an epic racer, why not a smasher?

 

[volbound1700]

Eggman and Sonic were in the first game together, unlike Luigi who came before Bowser. Eggman also has a vastly more interesting moveset potential.

Smash has a history of bringing in side-kicks before villains:

Luigi
Diddy Kong
Falco
Zelda (over Ganondorf)
Palutena

 

[StormC]

Smash has a history of bringing in side-kicks before villains:

Luigi
Diddy Kong
Falco
Zelda (over Ganondorf)
Palutena

Luigi and Falco debuted before Bowser and Wolf, Diddy and Zelda debuted in the same game as K. Rool and Ganon, and I highly doubt we will ever see a Kid Icarus villain in Smash outside of an easy echo or another revival of the Kid Icarus license.

Eggman is a special case compared to all of those. I wouldn't be upset if Tails came first; I would get why, but I also think there is a strong case for Eggman.

 

[Xevious 1]

Because he isn't a Nintendo character, he is a guest, I don't really like the idea of 3rd partys of the same franchise getting a non echo character when Nintendo's own properties and other new 3rd parties are more deserving. It is my made up rules and I wouldn't be angry if we got a second sonic character, in fact I might actually like the character, but that is a reason why me and others wouldn't like multiple characters from the same third party franchise.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Eggman is the best choice, if any. (With Knuckles out of the way)
Eggman brings personality, and he is clearly of a different build than Sonic and his pals.
Gadgets, robots, and other interesting shenanigans this villain could come up with does bring a lot of possibilities for Smash.

I do think that there is a great chance we will see Eggman as a boss fighter, which I'm ok with. His personality is brilliant, and would work well as a Boss for a story mode/Spirits thing. I would personally don't mind his inclusion as a playable either, but I think Boss is more likely.

Shadow could work as an echo. It's expected by others. (Thanks, Richter ...)
And, while I've been against it before, I'm "ok" with it now.
My first Sonic game was Adventure 2 Battle on the GameCube, and I fell in love with the series then, so Shadow to me is nostalgia, but ... The Shadow game kind of ruined the character for me. Now he's just filler.
I did not like the idea before, as to not wanting more characters from the same series, as 3rd party, even as echo, but now people have come to expect it, and I don't honestly care anymore.

I've always viewed Tails as annoying, but I respect his role in the series. (in terms of importance)
But, between Shadow, Tails and Eggman?

Dr. Eggman would have my full support. Perhaps now with all of this new views of Ultimate, perhaps I would want to campaign for him more for an eventual DLC spot. (unless we get a real surprise.)

 

[StormC]

Now that K. Rool is in, I would seriously consider throwing myself behind an Eggman campaign. M. Bison too, if Ken is indeed an echo.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Now that K. Rool is in, I would seriously consider throwing myself behind an Eggman campaign. M. Bison too, if Ken is indeed an echo.

Agreed. Let's make Dr. Eggman relevant again.

 

[smashingDoug]

Shadow works for the sidekick and rival slot