Gimp Man! - Edge Guarding Topic/Discussion

[Red Shirt KRT]

I like the idea of sticking it to the edge when the opponent is recovering. Haven't though of that one

 

[Pipmonchan]

For gimping: Bair is my absolute favourite and can be used as bait when the opponent gets used to it. MB to mess them up, high or low. Lemons when trying to get up on stage. Danger Wrap when they recover high. I love Dair and try it whenever possible.
Megaman just has so many options for gimping and kill moves and that's what makes him an entertaining character to use (for me, at least).
I have yet to practice Leafstool, but I have got many kills using footstool mainly because Mega Man can get really low and still be able to recover with Rush (and wall jump sometimes) in case you miss.

As bonus track:
Dair + footstool https://vine.co/v/OEEulj2rpwK (Lucario survived, but it's because of his amazing recovery. Could kill a lot of characters at low %)
Me getting owned when trying to gimp Ganon xD Be careful guys! https://vine.co/v/OEEBXHMtnH3

 

[Locke 06]

So, I'm finding a lot of success with dtilt on the edge catching people who don't sweet spot perfectly. Captain Falcon is the one I've abused the most with it, but I think we could absolutely destroy Mac's up-B with this. Has anyone else used this frequently? / against whom?

Also, unknown if this is the right place for this, but I'm looking for more ways to mixup my ledge options for when I'm on the ledge. Other than the standard getup, roll, attack, and jump, the ledge drop options are what I've been exploring recently.
My most go-to options:
soft drop>DJ>NAir (really... this is so good)
soft drop>rush (good reset for platforms)
soft drop>DJ>FAir (Autocancels when done correctly and can lead to grab or jab locks/usmash tech chase at the right %)
soft drop>DJ>Metal blade (eh, I'm not a huge fan of this, but it works sometimes)
Scar jump bair

Things I don't do a lot of, but want to incorporate:
soft drop>FAir (hits those on the ledge, but you fall down and have to recover again)
soft drop>DJ>Airdodge>UAir
hard drop>DJ>Airdodge>BAir/DAir (autocancels the aerial before it comes out allowing you to not take the airdodge landing lag) - BAir autocancels before frame 4. DAir autocancels before frame 5, but if you miss it, you take a lot more lag than if you miss BAir. Trade offs.
hard drop>DJ>Airdodge>NAir

Are there some other things that people use to get off the ledge? Also, what do you normally do after a ledge jump? (I usually try to run away/reset unless there's an opening to fast fall BAir)

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I like the away from ledge DJ lemons. It is nice for recovering.

With beat use fall off ledge Uair. A lot of people don't see it coming.

 

[Sorichuudo]

I've had some sucess with the scar jump.
Either bair my way back into stage(risky) or to just use rush after the instant wall jump to get more height.

 

[ChopperDave]

Sometimes I'll YOLO and do ledge jump -> UpB to vault off the ledge and onto another platform / the middle of the stage. It's not a terrible option at lower percentages, where gimps are a bigger worry than roof KOs. Sometimes when I UpB from ledge I'll activate Leaf Shield and go for a ledge regrab into a buffered roll from ledge, as that can be surprisingly hard to punish.

Also, never underestimate the power of the empty hop. Sometimes you can scar jump and just land into shield on a stage, which can be situationally better than just standing up from the ledge.

 

[ForteX]

I love scar jump as an alternate recovery option, I just wish it worked on non-omega stages. My 98% of the time ledge strategy is just to mix up how I get off of it or whether I even go for it.

soft drop>DJ>Airdodge>UAir

I go for this sometimes without the air dodge and I do enjoy some success with it.

 

[ChopperDave]

I've been experimenting with hard drop -> uair after a ledge trump. Seems to be working pretty well for me so far. Your opponent either jumps towards stage and gets caught in the whirlwind, or is forced to delay and go for a ledge regrab, which we can then punish.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

Just thought I would share this.

Probably some of the best edgeguards/gimps against falcon all in one game!

 

[Xavix]

I don't know if it has been mentioned (let me know if it has) but Danger wrap is simultaneously a great edge-guarding and mind game tool for opponets recovering high. I actually find a lot of people mindlessly hitting it when they recover high, and attempting to dodge it gives megaman a free f-air to push them back. (and if you are feeling salty you can go a little off stage, shoot one, go back to the ledge and f-air them into it. Proceed to down-taunt and watch as your opponent forfeits his remaining stock/stocks)

 

[Sleek Media]

Crazy as it sounds, I've gotten just as many gimps from pellets and standing on the edge with Leaf Shield up as I have dAir and bAir. The flinch really messes people up, and it quickly conditions them to recover as low as possible.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

If they air dodge the danger wrap then you can almost always hit them with a Uair as well.

 

[Deleted member]

I think ledge-trumping should be heavily used for Mega Man. I've been using it a lot lately, and it can help secure kills, and typically, your opponents aren't expecting it. You can either get them with a bair (if they jump) or if they drop down and regrab the ledge, you can get them with the hard knuckle. I've recorded a video highlighting this from today:

(First Stock):

Gfycat: http://gfycat.com/RewardingKindlyAntbear

 

[Sleek Media]

How does ledge trumping work, exactly? Sometimes I can land a bAir, but other times my opponent seems to pop off too high. Is there some timing that I'm missing, or does DI apply?

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I can usually hit them with a Bair. Some good players realize that ledge trumping will get them hit and DI away so they don't get hit I believe.

 

[ChopperDave]

I can usually hit them with a Bair. Some good players realize that ledge trumping will get them hit and DI away so they don't get hit I believe.

I find bair is an unreliable ledge trump followup. The AIs fall for it every time but humans often dont.

Uair is my favorite followup. If they try to recover back onto the stage and/or attack you, this will catch them and either KO (at high percents) or tee them up for a followup. Staying offstage is usually the only way people can avoid uair, and I can then punish that by stage spiking with bair as they regrab the ledge or spiking with dair.

Tornado Hold is also a really solid ledge trump follow up. Hit them with that and it's usually a free bair followup.

 

[Sleek Media]

So there is DI when getting ledge trumped? Why does Shiek always land her bAir?

 

[ChopperDave]

So there is DI when getting ledge trumped? Why does Shiek always land her bAir?

I don't think DI is a factor. Your trajectory seems pretty set during the frames you are stunned.

It's more about air movement speed (both horizontal movement and fall speed. A lot of characters fall too fast or can move away too quickly for us to get a guaranteed bair from ledge. Sheik's fall speed and the meaty hitbox on her bair makes her bair much more reliable.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, ChopperDave is correct.
I also read somewhere that their damage percentage has an affect on it too, so I'm not too sure?

However, the reason I say it is very effective, is because if you miss the bair, like I did, and they try and re-grab the ledge, they lose their invincibility. So that is a free punish, if you can time it all correctly. So, it might be effective to just ledge-trump them, climb back up and wait and see what they do.
I played this guy several times and was able to pull of a dair on him, and a bair.

In the gfycat, I don't believe my opponent knew he didn't have invincibility.

 

[Locke 06]

BAir is guaranteed after ledge trumping depending on your frame advantage upon trumping. All characters now have 22(?) Frames upon grabbing the ledge before they can act or be ejected via trump. I don't know how many frames you are unable to act after being trumped, but mega man has probably the best ledge trump BAir in the game due to how fast, strong, and big the BAir hitbox is. The ejection from the ledge is not affected by DI and is character specific. With the combination of soft and hard drops from the ledge and double jumps, mega man can cover a huge range with ledge drop>BAir.

The issue is that trump is beaten by roll/jump/attack getups.

If you have enough time, DAir upon vulnerable regrab = a teaching moment for your opponent.

 

[Deleted member]

BAir is guaranteed after ledge trumping depending on your frame advantage upon trumping. All characters now have 22(?) Frames upon grabbing the ledge before they can act or be ejected via trump. I don't know how many frames you are unable to act after being trumped, but mega man has probably the best ledge trump BAir in the game due to how fast, strong, and big the BAir hitbox is. The ejection from the ledge is not affected by DI and is character specific. With the combination of soft and hard drops from the ledge and double jumps, mega man can cover a huge range with ledge drop>BAir.

The issue is that trump is beaten by roll/jump/attack getups.

If you have enough time, DAir upon vulnerable regrab = a teaching moment for your opponent.

Of course.
In my case, I don't ledge-trump unless I see they are hanging on the ledge for a long time.

 

[Sleek Media]

BAir is guaranteed after ledge trumping depending on your frame advantage upon trumping. All characters now have 22(?) Frames upon grabbing the ledge before they can act or be ejected via trump. I don't know how many frames you are unable to act after being trumped, but mega man has probably the best ledge trump BAir in the game due to how fast, strong, and big the BAir hitbox is. The ejection from the ledge is not affected by DI and is character specific. With the combination of soft and hard drops from the ledge and double jumps, mega man can cover a huge range with ledge drop>BAir.

The issue is that trump is beaten by roll/jump/attack getups.

If you have enough time, DAir upon vulnerable regrab = a teaching moment for your opponent.

By soft drop, do you mean tapping away from the ledge, or just down without a fast fall? Is there a resource on what covers each character?

 

[Locke 06]

I think tapping away from the ledge and down without a fast fall is the same. But yes, soft drop vs hard drop= away from ledge vs down (fast fall).

I don't have a resource for trump distances. It would be very useful if someone wants to take up that project. I know fox is soft drop>DJ bair (gets ejected high).

 

[SpottedCerberus]

Does Crash Bomb always stage spike?

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

No crash bomb usually sends at an upward angle. It depends where they are at and I believe where the crash bomb is on the character

 

[Diamond Octobot]

No crash bomb usually sends at an upward angle. It depends where they are at and I believe where the crash bomb is on the character

In fact, it you stick a Crash bomb on the ledge, it WILL Stage Spike. That is because it was sent towards the stage and therefore it will send people towards the stage. It isn't very precise, but it can kill people or save them depending on the stage.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I was thinking if the crash bomb was attached to the character not the stage

 

[Diamond Octobot]

I was thinking if the crash bomb was attached to the character not the stage

In that case, the same thing happens : if the Crash Bomb sticked itself on an opponent while moving to the left, the opponent will be sent to the left and would have to be near the right ledge in order to get stage spiked, and is in the same scheme if you reverse the directions.

 

[SpottedCerberus]

Does anyone know what this is:

It's old, but it has less than a 1000 views so I wasn't sure if people had seen it. Is this actually a reproducible/useful thing? I assume it's not, or people would be doing it by now, but I'm mostly wondering if anyone knows exactly what happened.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

It looks like the jiggly puff just didn't hit B ( or whatver they hit to get out of the roll). So they just fell off the edge.

It looked like they were rolling with no momentum.

Someone could try and recreate it with another player to see.

 

[glenn]

Does anyone know what this is:

It's old, but it has less than a 1000 views so I wasn't sure if people had seen it. Is this actually a reproducible/useful thing? I assume it's not, or people would be doing it by now, but I'm mostly wondering if anyone knows exactly what happened.

Once jigglypuff hits something while in rollout, they can't do anything until they touch the ground. Easiest way to edge guard a jigglypuff trying to return this way is to stand near the ledge and shield. They bounce of shield and spin helplessly to their doom. Jigglypuff also can't ledge grab while in that state.

As to why the leaves didn't knock jigglypuff out of roll... maybe the hitbox for rollout is big enough to cancel leaves, register the hit state, and not actually overlap any of her hurtboxes.

 

[FP-Takyon]

running off ledge and bairing is always fun for low recoveries. usually I just pressure and zone with metal blades and setup a spike if I'm able.

 

[glenn]

running off ledge and bairing is always fun for low recoveries. usually I just pressure and zone with metal blades and setup a spike if I'm able.

This is my goto for edgeguarding as well, especially for characters who stall low to avoid DAir, and don't have a hitbox on their recovery moves. In particular, and are very susceptible to it. If tethers predictably you can run off BAir as well.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

Olimar gets eaten by runoff Bair too, wii fit trainer also

 

[Drippy]

How do you guys deal with tether recoveries? There's a lot of Links / Toon Links and I feel I miss a lot of kills cause tether recoveries are so gooood. However I do know that they have no invincibility as they're being dragged up, so I tried throwing downward Metal Blades a few times but I was a little slow on doing it so I'm not sure how effective it is. How do you guys deal with it?

 

[ChopperDave]

How do you guys deal with tether recoveries? There's a lot of Links / Toon Links and I feel I miss a lot of kills cause tether recoveries are so gooood. However I do know that they have no invincibility as they're being dragged up, so I tried throwing downward Metal Blades a few times but I was a little slow on doing it so I'm not sure how effective it is. How do you guys deal with it?

Leaf Shield can be pretty funny against tether recoveries. If you have LS up and run off stage and/or drop into a ledge grab, you're pretty much guaranteed to knock them out of their tether before they reach the stage.

Most Links / Tinks will react to this by immediately spamming UpB, but if you're in your ledge invincibility Leaf Shield will cancel this once or twice too. Sometimes they'll get desperate and shoot past the ledge when they finally UpB past your LS, whereupon you can do a ledge get up (extending your invincibility frames) and dsmash them. Alternatively you can attempt to spike them with dair or stagespike them with nair if they try to wait LS out.

Ledge trump is good here too. Tether recoveries are fairly predictable and it's easy to time a trump for when your opponent snaps into his ledge grab. If your opponent has a habit of buffering a jump after snapping to ledge (something I see a lot of players do), punish it by having a bair ready for them.

 

[Drippy]

Leaf Shield can be pretty funny against tether recoveries. If you have LS up and run off stage and/or drop into a ledge grab, you're pretty much guaranteed to knock them out of their tether before they reach the stage.

Most Links / Tinks will react to this by immediately spamming UpB, but if you're in your ledge invincibility Leaf Shield will cancel this once or twice too. Sometimes they'll get desperate and shoot past the ledge when they finally UpB past your LS, whereupon you can do a ledge get up (extending your invincibility frames) and dsmash them. Alternatively you can attempt to spike them with dair or stagespike them with nair if they try to wait LS out.

Ledge trump is good here too. Tether recoveries are fairly predictable and it's easy to time a trump for when your opponent snaps into his ledge grab. If your opponent has a habit of buffering a jump after snapping to ledge (something I see a lot of players do), punish it by having a bair ready for them.

Thanks a lot for the help! Definitely will need to try all of this out, and I can't believe I haven't thought of using Leaf Shield in this match-up. Additionally I really do need to get into the habit of ledge trumping, I'm so used to diagonal metal blades into up tilts for my kill setups that players usually can predict it pretty well when I'm in the air (I suppose that is conditioning them for a tomahawk though) so I really do need to work on my off-stage game and ledge trumping into B-Air for kills.