Getting the Grab

[busken]

What tools does lucas have to get the grab? Obviously his specials don't but maybe falling aerials?

 

[Smog Frog]

advancing close up zair

 

[AirJordans]

You basically just have to be aggressive and condition them into thinking that you'll attack shield a few times. They'll try to call your bluff too so it's not going to be 100% but it should give you windows. Also, spacing is key when it come to Lucas. If your opponent doesn't have a tether grab we (usually) have a lot of options to keep them safely spaced away until you feel it's time to go for that risky but rewarding grab.

 

[busken]

But you can't get anything free then? Like luigi can just use fireball, ness has pk fire, etc

 

[AirJordans]

But you can't get anything free then? Like luigi can just use fireball, ness has pk fire, etc

Nothing as free as that, but it's also worth noting that both of those options still don't guarantee a grab either.

 

[ilysm]

I mean. That's part of the reason why Lucas isn't as disgusting as Luigi, or Sheik. All three of them have great rewards off of grabs, but only two are considered top tier. Luigi's or Sheik's entire neutral gives them a plethora of tools to secure grabs, such as jabs, tilts, good aerials, and special moves that safely bait out shield. Lucas doesn't really have those things, which is why he doesn't get combos and kill setups almost for free like they do. So you need to rely on baits, reads, and conditioning to reap the rewards that Lucas's grab will give you.

 

[AirJordans]

I mean. That's part of the reason why Lucas isn't as disgusting as Luigi, or Sheik. All three of them have great rewards off of grabs, but only two are considered top tier. Luigi's or Sheik's entire neutral gives them a plethora of tools to secure grabs, such as jabs, tilts, good aerials, and special moves that safely bait out shield. Lucas doesn't really have those things, which is why he doesn't get combos and kill setups almost for free like they do. So you need to rely on baits, reads, and conditioning to reap the rewards that Lucas's grab will give you.

He has a ton of options. His dthrow combos into all of his aerials lol. He has great rewards for throws just not as easy of a grab. Everyone with a tether grab has a slow grab.

 

[JesterJaded]

As a Toon Link main, conditioning your opponent to nab a grab isn't very difficult at all. Zoning tools and a decent keep-away game will frustrate your opponent into power-shielding their way through your wall strategy to try and get in. Lucas's PK fire and Zair can be useful here.

And in my honest opinion, Lucas would be on the top of the tier list if he could get "free grabs." His D-throw is the most rewarding throw in the game, being a 0-death for half the cast and 0-50% for everyone else.

 

[busken]

He has a ton of options. His dthrow combos into all of his aerials lol. He has great rewards for throws just not as easy of a grab. Everyone with a tether grab has a slow grab.

You misunderstood his post. He said that all three of them have great reward off getting grab, but lucas has can't get the initial grab as easily as the latter.

 

[knu_OOKA]

What tools does lucas have to get the grab? Obviously his specials don't but maybe falling aerials?

Honestly, not much that I know of. After landing a short-hopped nair I can sometimes get a grab at early to mid percents depending on DI, weight, fall speed, etc.
Lucas' tether grab forces him to be more read-oriented to confirm grabs in neutral. Especially since his TG is slow.

 

[JesterJaded]

I heard from some that you can potentially Dtilt > grab. I can't test right now, but can someone confirm this?

 

[Kenturo]

I heard from some that you can potentially Dtilt > grab. I can't test right now, but can someone confirm this?

Yes it works at high percents. You can do one dtilt or two dtilts and confirm to grab You can also do :

-Zair> Grab
-FF Nair> Grab
-FF Nair > Dtilt> grab (high percents only)
-FF Fair> Grab (certain percents)
-FH Dair> FF> Grab
-Probably more stuff just go to the lab and find out

 

[JesterJaded]

Yes it works at high percents. You can do one dtilt or two dtilts and confirm to grab You can also do :

-Zair> Grab
-FF Nair> Grab
-FF Nair > Dtilt> grab (high percents only)
-FF Fair> Grab (certain percents)
-FH Dair> FF> Grab
-Probably more stuff just go to the lab and find out

That should definitely prove useful after busting out his early combo game and reaching for a safe kill confirm with grab > Uair, but what would make Lucas deadly are safe grab options for the early game.

Considering his ridiculous jablock shenanigans, footstooling and missed techs should be things to look out for if you're searching for grab conversions. Anything else that can combo into footstool - or just footstool in general - will put the opponent in a nasty damage loop.

Maybe grounded footstool > Dair as a punish? Can we get a conversion off of that?

 

[ElMoro995]

i think that jab 1,2 and grab is viable

 

[busken]

Yes it works at high percents. You can do one dtilt or two dtilts and confirm to grab You can also do :

-Zair> Grab
-FF Nair> Grab
-FF Nair > Dtilt> grab (high percents only)
-FF Fair> Grab (certain percents)
-FH Dair> FF> Grab
-Probably more stuff just go to the lab and find out

Aside from Z-air>Grab none of these are really safe. You need to fastfall into the aerial which means it can easily be shield grabbed and punished. The time I would see these being viable is if you condition them to not shield your falling aerials after exposing them to a tomahawk grab. From what I can see, Lucas has very little safe grab confirms in neutral. In order to get the grab you need to get the read.

 

[Kenturo]

Aside from Z-air>Grab none of these are really safe. You need to fastfall into the aerial which means it can easily be shield grabbed and punished. The time I would see these being viable is if you condition them to not shield your falling aerials after exposing them to a tomahawk grab. From what I can see, Lucas has very little safe grab confirms in neutral. In order to get the grab you need to get the read.

All of these options are safe 70% of the cast's shield so i dont know what you are talking about.

 

[busken]

All of these options are safe 70% of the cast's shield so i dont know what you are talking about.

No not at all. All of these can get shield grabbed. Except for FF F-air if you retreat, surrendering your grab.
You are even more in the wrong because they don't even have to shield grab you. They can just hold shield. If you try to grab them they can easily roll away since Lucas's grab is slow.

 

[FUEGO!]

For statistics sake, Zair to grab does work really well at lower percents. It's best used to get your first grab and first damage of the match.