getting grabbed out of dair ->shine?

[HK_Spadez]

Am i just really bad? I am practicing on 20xx and having marth grab OOS on me. but i seem toget shield grabbed when i dair->shine pretty often. my nair->shines are fine but somehow i dont get the dair shines all the time.

is nair->shine in general a better neutral option anways? or is dair->shine still better despite sometimes missing the timing to not get shield grabbed?

any trick/tips to this?

-Thanks

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

Just grind it out, dair shine takes a while to get used to, and perfect. Overall, Nair shine is safer and easier to do, so you should default to it tbh. Just grind it out, work on putting everything out asap, and you'll get it down.

 

[meebius]

It depends on the timing of the dair. Early dairs on shield are not fast enough to safely put out a shine to beat shield grab. However, if you do the lastest possible dair, you can put out a shine that'll lead in safe shield pressure.

 

[HK_Spadez]

yeah for some reason having a lot of trouble with marth. i seem fine doing it on fox and what not. idk.

thanks guys

 

[FE_Hector]

Alright, this is a huge advantage of personally preferring SHFFL dair -> Shine as my main combo starter at low %s. My bet here would be that Marth's height is what's messing you up. Because he's taller than the spacies his shield will get hit earlier and he'll have more time to exit shieldstun so he can shieldgrab you with more proficiency. However, if you do the dair a little bit later, then you should be just fine SHFFL dair -> shining him. It's really a matter of when you use the dair.

 

[HK_Spadez]

ahh ok. yeah im starting to get it now. thanks guys. i was just sitting here for like 20-30 mins like wtfff. had to make a post lmao.

 

[kevlar]

Is there really no benefit to using dair instead of nair? I see people use it for shield pressure so often.

 

[FE_Hector]

I think that nair is a better idea when you're doing shield pressure. Shine nair and Westballz' pressure are both good ideas on shield, especially because an L-Canceled nair is actually actionable 2 frames earlier than an L-Canceled dair. On an approach, however, SHFFL late dair shine is a lot easier to manage properly because low% dairs don't really hit them anywhere horizontally. Some Falco's (including Westballz sometimes) overuse their SHFFL late dairs and get punished for it. Because you have the whole concept of a late dair, you can actually turn it into a tomahawk or a SHFFL late nair to catch whatever movement option they may choose (including the nooby roll).

 

[HK_Spadez]

how do westballz and mango do that, shine -> short hop shine -> land -> shine.

how do they land so fast after a short hop shine into a another shine. do they DJC the short hop shine into a wave land down? i never seem to do it fast enuf. to fully wave land back to ground properly.

 

[NitroSSBM]

I've got the same problem but with Sheik, help? 20YY SS | Saiblade FE_Hector

 

[FE_Hector]

how do westballz and mango do that, shine -> short hop shine -> land -> shine.

how do they land so fast after a short hop shine into a another shine. do they DJC the short hop shine into a wave land down? i never seem to do it fast enuf. to fully wave land back to ground properly.

Think about how fast these people's hands are. Westballz once pulled off 14 multishines at random because him and his opponent were busy camping out opposite sides of the Fire Transformation and everybody loves hyping up the crowd. This is also a concept used for extending combos on platforms, but yes, they really do just cancel the DJ with an immediate waveland cuz they're just that good at the game.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

I've got the same problem but with Sheik, help? 20YY SS | Saiblade FE_Hector

You're not doing it fast enough, you need to FF and hit the dair pretty damn low for it to work.

 

[NitroSSBM]

You're not doing it fast enough, you need to FF and hit the dair pretty damn low for it to work.

Alright man, I'll start practicing that. Thanks

 

[_Dubs]

Dair shine isn't safe , no matter how much you delay the dair. Shine OoS and even grab OoS stuff it easily. It can trick up the opponent's timing if he's expecting an early dair though, so use mix-ups often. Shine-laser is great on people who hold shield or buffer roll away often.

Shine-aerial fading away from shield and shine-grab >>> waveshine away/towards >>>>>>> Shine-aerial fading into shield

 

[Magellan]

OK. You should be able to always land a Dair>Shine (if they try to grab you after the Dair that is). It is JUST timing. The trick is timing your FF. What usually messes people up is they input the FF during or before the hitlag that happens when you strike the shield. When you miss the FF, that in turns causes you to miss your L-cancel. Focus on the impact with the shield and try to FF just after the impact; you'll start to hit those l-cancels and get those shines.

As far as Dair vs Nair, there is no BETTER move IMO, each just has its uses. Nair becomes actionable on l-cancel faster than Dair, so when you are trying to link shines and aerials together as fast as possible to avoid OoS options, it can be useful. Falco has the most combo options when you knock opponents up and down in a pillar style combo. Since Nair nocks opponents to the side, you have less combo options, but you can still link up with Dairs, light Bairs, first hit fairs, or get an edgeguard. If you hit a standing opponent with Dair, it will pop them just slightly in the air which is AMAZING for combo set ups. Don't limit yourself by saying this is good or this is sub-optimal; learn the intricacies of each tool in your box and use them where you can! Good luck in the lab!