Getting Better with Palutena/Smash 4 in General

[Benmjy]

Hey all, I hope you can bear with me for just a second because I'm honestly so desperate. Palutena is my favorite Nintendo character by far and I feel like I'm doing a disservice by playing her in Smash. I can't do anything properly and I'm constantly being stomped by any human or CPU. I've read every guide and feel like I've watched every video but I find myself not improving and it's frustrating because right now I want nothing more than to be the best with my favorite character. Maybe I'm lacking a foundation in Smash 4's basic skills but I just feel clunky, I know what I want to do but can never do it. I'm so sorry for the negative vibe I am bringing but I've run out of places to turn and with no other friends that play Smash, I'm turning to you guys for help. Thanks for hearing me out and I hope we can figure something out to put me on the track to improvement. However if this thread doesn't belong or is bad post quality or something feel free to lock it...

 

[Shadow23]

Sorry to hear about that. Palutena is one of my secondaries, so hopefully I'll be able to provide you with sufficient info that will help you improve your gameplay. Firstly, practice. I cannot stress it enough. Go to training mode and experiment with all her attacks and see which attacks leads into another attack. For example, her down throw can lead to a forward air or neutral air. Second, if you want to be the best with her it's a MUST to have fundamentals of the game. Not only the basic fundamentals such as dashing, grabbing, and shielding, but complex ones such as pivots, teching, DI, etc. The only reason I say it's a must is because all high level players incorporate them into their gameplay and if you aren't prepared for it or lack the knowledge of it, they will have complete dominance over you. Thirdly, try watching some replays of Palutena. Download as many as you can and hopefully one of them, if not all can provide you insight on how people generally use her. Lastly, keep fighting competent players. Trust me I was at the top of my game when fighting them as opposed when I'm playing FG. They'll frequently capitalize on your mistakes which hopefully would encourage you to not make the same bad habits. After fighting them, hopefully they'll provide you with advice on what to improve on. If not, just ask them. Don't hesitate to ask. If you lost a match and aren't sure why you lost, try saving the replay as soon as the match finished. That way you can look back at the match as many times as you want to find any mistakes you may have made that cost you the match. Wow this post sure became quite lengthy. Hopefully you were able to read through the whole thing. Take my advice and study it as if you were preparing for a 5 hour final. And with that, it was a pleasure helping out a fellow Palutena user .

 

[MisterDom]

It's hard man. Sorry to hear. I've had interest in Palutena, but do not even use her as a secondary, so I can't give you tips on the character, but I'll try to give tips on how to improve.

I do play Palutena a little, and know that she does need a lot of skill to play. Like a lot! I suggest to keep her as a secondary for a now, and have a different main to learn off of at first. I also suggest looking how other great players use Palutena, like Aerolink. (He's the best Palutena in my opinion!)

I also suggest testing customs out (they're very good with Palutena), but you can't use them in FG so you might have to go to a friend's house, invite a player in an online lobby, or go to tournament.

Learning the game can also be difficult. I suggest training mode, watching a lot of YouTube, twitch, computer playing, and just simple online as your ways you to learn. Though online can give players bad habits, if it's your only option, use it. If you can, try to go to competitive meet ups, even if you get your butt whooped!

It will take a lot of matches to get improvement. I've been playing smash 'competitively' for about half a year and I think I'm learning fast, but I only do average to decent in tournament, and will probably stay at that skill level for at least another 6 months.

The more you play, lose, and watch, the more you'll learn, even if it doesn't seem like it. Also, be confident in yourself, because if you're not it'll be harder to learn.

There was several times where I wanted to quit because of obstacles, and I'm currently having trouble picking a main, but you can't give up! Give it some time, and you'll see some results! I know I certainly have, and I'm expecting some later!

Another thing that helped me was trying to find some taste in every character! And you're own taste!!!!

It can be similar to some one else's, and you can borrow some combos and skills, but having your own mindset that is different from character to character is important, and I believe it might help you learn. Remember to keep pushing Palutena more than anyone else though! Playing with every character and play every playstyle equally will definitely help overtime!

Remember, the game is about smarts, wits, knowledge, and mind games! You might have the best combos out of everyone, but you could come dead last if you don't have the smarts, and practice them A LOT! It's hard, and that's actually what takes most time to learn. It could take years!!! (A lot of players here on smash boards have the combos and options, but lose mostly because they practice too much combos, and not the actual thinking! I'll admit that I have the same problem!)

Most of all, have fun! Take a break if it's not! If I'm already warmed up, I usually play my best when I take a break, and a hiatus for some time won't hurt! Hope some of this advice helped!

 

[Pyrofishy]

This isn't much help, but Palutena has nice air combos. Down throw into neutral air, up throw at higher percents can lead into a up air, stuff like that.

Palutena is set up, more, for two playstyles, turtling and rushing. Her side B is really nice for projectile spammers, and counter has a nice hitbox.

She is a slowish character, moves having a lot of ending lag, so you have to make sure your moves hit.

I've always found CPU's harder to fight as Palutena then players. She sorta relies on reads.

One thing I've noticed while playing is her heels.
Her heels click on the ground when she walks, and when she lands. It's seemed, to me, that when her heels click when she lands is when she can attack again.
Might just be me though.

 

[Benmjy]

Thank you so much everyone I will try and take all your tips in to account! I really want to get better at this game and be able to contribute more and with your guys' help I can be one step closer!

 

[SonicNKnux]

One thing you want to try is lots of movement; empty jumps work pretty well. Palutena should never be stationary. No need to get greedy about your attacks since Lady P's such a defensive character. Make sure you pummel during grabs after around 50%; above 100% you should be able to get away with three most of the time. Try walking and f-tilting; it works more than you'd think. If they're in your face, her reflect barrier is a decent panic move, but don't use it too often or your opponent will try to bait it out of you. Use the dash attack's invincibility to follow up, punish or hit your opponents before they land. If you're rushing down for any reason it should probably be to use a f-air or grab. First jab connects into more first jabs, all tilts, grabs, reflects and f-air and d-air reliably.

She has a good aerial game! N-air is all around good to use for anti-air, as is f-air. Don't neglect the partial invincibility on her b-air, and try midair reflecting (I do!)! Save your smashes for obvious reads and 100%~ damage play; u-smash is the safest to use though anytime. From my experience, d-throw to u-air with all hits connecting takes out everyone above 120% (personally, except Dedede...). Try edgeguarding with b-air. You don't want to spam ANYTHING, as she can be punished easily due to some endlag (hence the empty jumps). As you get better you'll learn when to feint your attacks. Most of all have patience! When learning her, you WILL lose with Palutena, and OFTEN; the payoff you get from mastery is more than rewarding. You won't feel like you did much but then you'll be surprised by the replays. If you play the 3DS version I could have mirror matches with you if you like.

Hope that helped!

 

[Benmjy]

One thing you want to try is lots of movement; empty jumps work pretty well. Palutena should never be stationary. No need to get greedy about your attacks since Lady P's such a defensive character. Make sure you pummel during grabs after around 50%; above 100% you should be able to get away with three most of the time. Try walking and f-tilting; it works more than you'd think. If they're in your face, her reflect barrier is a decent panic move, but don't use it too often or your opponent will try to bait it out of you. Use the dash attack's invincibility to follow up, punish or hit your opponents before they land. If you're rushing down for any reason it should probably be to use a f-air or grab. First jab connects into more first jabs, all tilts, grabs, reflects and f-air and d-air reliably.

She has a good aerial game! N-air is all around good to use for anti-air, as is f-air. Don't neglect the partial invincibility on her b-air, and try midair reflecting (I do!)! Save your smashes for obvious reads and 100%~ damage play; u-smash is the safest to use though anytime. From my experience, d-throw to u-air with all hits connecting takes out everyone above 120% (personally, except Dedede...). Try edgeguarding with b-air. You don't want to spam ANYTHING, as she can be punished easily due to some endlag (hence the empty jumps). As you get better you'll learn when to feint your attacks. Most of all have patience! When learning her, you WILL lose with Palutena, and OFTEN; the payoff you get from mastery is more than rewarding. You won't feel like you did much but then you'll be surprised by the replays. If you play the 3DS version I could have mirror matches with you if you like.

Hope that helped!

I would love to have mirror matches with you and I bet they will help an immense amount! I'll message you my friend code and thank you for the awesome tips!

 

[Maraphy]

I would love to help! When we both have free time I wouldn't mind skyping while doing some mirror matches or something !

 

[Benmjy]

I would love to help! When we both have free time I wouldn't mind skyping while doing some mirror matches or something !

Omg that also would be amazing! I'm in for any and all help I can get and having people critique me would be very beneficial I think! I'll send you a PM as well!

 

[HappyBear801]

I have one main suggestion with Palutena, JUGGLING. All of her Up+A attacks have kill potential. If you can juggle with up tilt, up smash, and uair, you can deal a ton of damage in not too long a time. Now of course, this is why she is best against the ground demons (as I like to call them personally) such as Little Mac, Ganondorf, Bowser, etc. With characters that are also good in the air, be much more tactical and try to read their patterns and general playstyle, then try and read them by countering (sometimes litterally) as many attacks as possible.

However, I'm just giving general advice, since currently I'm trying to balance Palutena with six other mains, with seven in total, so once I'm completely balanced out I can give you some more technical advice.

 

[nintenerd]

Palutena can be easily mastered by practicing with her. Since she is a slower but powerful character, you must time her attacks at the right time. Her aerial attacks are very effective while battling. Using the up+A can perish the opponent at around 80%- 90% depending how far up you are at the screen. Try using her counter when you feel that you need to. Also remember to use her reflect when a projectile is near. I once was horrible with using Palutena, but now she is my third main (only behind Rosalina and Zelda).

Good luck with Palutena!

 

[lRasha]

One thing you want to try is lots of movement; empty jumps work pretty well. Palutena should never be stationary. No need to get greedy about your attacks since Lady P's such a defensive character. Make sure you pummel during grabs after around 50%; above 100% you should be able to get away with three most of the time. Try walking and f-tilting; it works more than you'd think. If they're in your face, her reflect barrier is a decent panic move, but don't use it too often or your opponent will try to bait it out of you. Use the dash attack's invincibility to follow up, punish or hit your opponents before they land. If you're rushing down for any reason it should probably be to use a f-air or grab. First jab connects into more first jabs, all tilts, grabs, reflects and f-air and d-air reliably.

She has a good aerial game! N-air is all around good to use for anti-air, as is f-air. Don't neglect the partial invincibility on her b-air, and try midair reflecting (I do!)! Save your smashes for obvious reads and 100%~ damage play; u-smash is the safest to use though anytime. From my experience, d-throw to u-air with all hits connecting takes out everyone above 120% (personally, except Dedede...). Try edgeguarding with b-air. You don't want to spam ANYTHING, as she can be punished easily due to some endlag (hence the empty jumps). As you get better you'll learn when to feint your attacks. Most of all have patience! When learning her, you WILL lose with Palutena, and OFTEN; the payoff you get from mastery is more than rewarding. You won't feel like you did much but then you'll be surprised by the replays. If you play the 3DS version I could have mirror matches with you if you like.

Hope that helped!

Hello! Thank you for your response (even though it wasn't towards me lol). I have some questions for you (and for anyone else who wants to answer).

1. Why do you personally do midair reflecting?
2. Do you ever have trouble doing Smash attacks on the 3DS? Like...accidentally doing a U-Tilt when you want to punish with a U-Smash. I'm assuming it just takes some practice on the 3DS to make sure you do Smashes correctly
3. Do you ever use Counter? Have you ever tried off-stage Counters towards characters with damaging recoveries (like Bowser, Link, Fox, Shulk, etc)?
4. Do you use Reflect off-stage to certain characters like Little Mac, Captain Falcon, etc?

Counter is one of my issues with her. I'm not used to playing characters with Counters =/ I've been thinking of how I can successfully use it on people (as well as Reflect). I thought about Captain Falcon players since some of them seem to have predictable followups (Doing uairs in the air and the off-stage spikes). Her tilts were bothersome to me... But I'm liking D-Tilt more now since it seems like I can shield quickly after it. I haven't tested U-Tilt much even though I know it has a buff. F-tilt might be the most punishable of her tilts. OVERALL, I do like playing with her. I use her often. Any more advice/suggestions would be helpful!

 

[SonicNKnux]

Hello! Thank you for your response (even though it wasn't towards me lol). I have some questions for you (and for anyone else who wants to answer).

1. Why do you personally do midair reflecting?
2. Do you ever have trouble doing Smash attacks on the 3DS? Like...accidentally doing a U-Tilt when you want to punish with a U-Smash. I'm assuming it just takes some practice on the 3DS to make sure you do Smashes correctly
3. Do you ever use Counter? Have you ever tried off-stage Counters towards characters with damaging recoveries (like Bowser, Link, Fox, Shulk, etc)?
4. Do you use Reflect off-stage to certain characters like Little Mac, Captain Falcon, etc?

Counter is one of my issues with her. I'm not used to playing characters with Counters =/ I've been thinking of how I can successfully use it on people (as well as Reflect). I thought about Captain Falcon players since some of them seem to have predictable followups (Doing uairs in the air and the off-stage spikes). Her tilts were bothersome to me... But I'm liking D-Tilt more now since it seems like I can shield quickly after it. I haven't tested U-Tilt much even though I know it has a buff. F-tilt might be the most punishable of her tilts. OVERALL, I do like playing with her. I use her often. Any more advice/suggestions would be helpful!

You're welcome! :D

1. Personally, I do it mainly as a follow up or to catch them after an air dodge. Usually if I hit, the barrier knocks them back and stalls us in the air (them from getting hit, me from using it) long enough for me to possibly follow up; if I miss, but the barrier came out after the air dodge, the wind box should blow them away from me so I don't get punished. Worst case scenario, they air dodged when I reflected, and they either punish me in the air or fall behind me due to the air dodge. I also use it during those instances when one of us went for an attack in the air but missed, and we're both falling really close to each other (example: Meta Knight tried to Up-B me but missed, and now he's trying to fast fall and land before I do but we're really close to each other).

2. On occasion, usually when trying to predict a roll I may D-smash when trying to D-tilt and vice versa. I used to play piano, and I think of it as a kind of trill that you need to do in order to smash more consistently.

3. I do! I find it easier to use on Ike and Bowser. I've also done it on Mario and Marth/Lucina, but since Fox's Up-B hits multiple times it tends to hit me after my counter but before my counterattack.

4. Little Mac, all the time. There's no reason not to unless you're able to hit him with an aerial instead. Falcon I've gimped with it before, but sometimes his Up-B connects with me as the reflect comes out and I get hit anyway while the reflect hovers. I find you want to use it when they're completely open and trying to fall toward the stage; too far away to recover but if they air dodge or attack me they risk falling too low to recover as well. The wind box may even help you. Sometimes you've just gotta go for it

I tend not to use her counter too often, unless the move is obvious, like an obvious smash or aerial. If I don't think I can counter, I'll try to shield grab or reflect instead. If I'm REALLY freaked out (i.e. Marth flying at me with a shield breaker and he's WAY too close) I'll dash attack to intercept. If they ever let us use customs in FG (pipe dream) I'd likely switch it out for Celestial Firework since that move has invincibility on startup and I can use it in combos like D-Throw>CF or CF>N-Air.

woops, double post.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

woops, double post.

I took care of that for you.

 

[JayWon]

Literally B-air all day.

and f-air/jab and all the downthrow follow ups

and she actually has good baits. Been experimenting with landing frame traps with u-air.

 

[SPAZ494]

If your opponent approaches you unsafely with a dash or something i have found short hopping over a grab or attack, or short hopping over them to get behind them and then bair them in the face!! Well, i guess it would be the back of the head if you go over them. Then there is your throw combos of course and then there is FAIR! Use the crap out of fair for spacing and its just super quick. If you get good at reading your opponent you can get triple fairs or some other kind of follow up. Palutena is my secondary, but I have so much fun playing her! Just keep using her!

 

[Slythe]

Emblem Lord has a post that explains very well the different positions you can find yourself in during a match.

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...-traps-a-primer-for-gameplay-concepts.380200/

Knowing what state you're in helps you decide what move to make next. Don't user Palutena's laggy smash attacks unless you're in an advantageous position, where your opponent can't dodge or block. Use neutral B when you're applying pressure in neutral state.

I'm not a Palutena main, secondary only, but Emblem Lord's post should be helpful regardless if you're looking to go from casual to advanced player.