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Gettin It Straight: Wavedashing with Mario

mario-man

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
1,840
Okay, first off, I see alot of people posting vids of their Mario and most of them are AT LEAST average. So don't go thinking that I'm slammin anyone. Just giving out some advice and breaking down some Mario tactics (and other things) regarding wavedashing. Here we go!!


If you don't know what wavedashing is then search. I'm not gonna take anything away from the other HOW TOs by telling you. If you wanna know, go find them in the other threads. Now to the matter at hand. People have always thought that wavedashing was a good tool to avoid being hit by the opponent w/o having to turn around thus causing lag time. Some have said "Well, you can roll and not change directions too."
Once again though, the lag time gives WDing the advantage here. Though it is true that WDing is good for dodging, w/Mario, it should also be your MAIN source of movement. I personally don't walk or dash much -- if at all -- during a match (let alone roll). I'm not saying that you can't win without WDing as your only movement, but I would recommend it. There are situations that arise during a match where it is better to walk/dash than WD, but they don't usually occur very many times during a match. The reason is this: SPEED!!

Mario's WD is one of the best in the game and thus it is one of the wavedashes that, if used constantly, can be faster than regular dashing (and waaaay more flashy). If you don't WD at least most of the time, then you might be holding out on yourself. There's a good chance that you're better than you think.

Speed is the best tactic in any match with any character. No exceptions. If you are fast AND SMART, you will likely AT THE VERY LEAST give your opponent a run for his money because he (or possibly she) has to think faster to do damage to you, thus causing him or her to make more mistakes (unless they're pros). This is why WDing is SOOO important for Mario. Since his WD can be faster than dashing, it gives you a MAJOR level up once you learn to implement it correctly. It is VERY important that you don't go insane with this however. You need to practice it and you will eventually learn spacing and other such techs. WDing constantly also means that you don't have to worry about jump cancelling you grabs or whatever else you j-cancel. You can also attack directly out of a WD without any lag time, which is a great tool to use.

Wavelanding is also an important tech to learn and use. Especially on levels that are not Final Destination. Why?? Because of the platforms. When you do things like Jump -> FastFall right above the platform -> Waveland, it gets a little trickier for your opponent to keep up with you. If you FF to waveland, you might end up on the base ground before your opponent is even landed on the platform. This means that you are already set up to attack them and start a combo or whatever. The more time you can buy yourself, the more likely you are to win. (DUHHH) LOL

ShieldDashing is another good trick to learn. This one is pretty self-explanatory, but I'll break it down. If you can shield before and/or after a WD, then you can prevent taking more damage than neccessary which is obviously a good thing. This can work really well when combined with shield grabbing. ex. Shield>>WD>>Shield>>Grab after he attacks your shield. Pretty effective if you can master it.

SHABAWD is a Mario specific move (exception: Luigi) that should definitely be implemented. Since it is not a common move, I will explain it. A SHABAWD is when you Short Hop Aerial Back A WaveDash. This can only be done if you do the Back A move IMMEDIATELY after you leave the ground. This is a pretty slick move when done properly and is pretty beautiful in the hands of a master. Can (and should) be used interchanging with a ShortHop Bair FastFalled. Of course, it is situational when to use which of the two. You'll have to learn that for yourself.

Okay, there's probably more that I'll think of and add later, but for now this is it. I made this to help out the Mario n00bs, but also the rest of the Marios. As amazing as it sounds, there are some who don't realize the importance of the WD and when to apply it.

NOW you can reply since you kiddies have been sooooo patient. LOL
 

mario-man

Smash Lord
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Feb 6, 2007
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LOL Pynk. If you wanna act all naive, then you should spell it correctly. Spelling it that way is too obvious. xD
 

FaceFaceMcFace

Smash Ace
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Mar 21, 2007
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Location
Radford/Martinsville, VA
Oh come on mario-man; davewashing is what all the pros are doing now; you're so behind the times.

I will agree with you that wavedashing is a very useful and important method of movement, but it should not be practically your only locomotion; with that you then would become predictable, no matter how intelligently you play otherwise. Variety is the real key.

After all, we can't just forget about dash-dancing, full-jumped approaches, and the reality that wavedashing is only faster than running when you are doing frame and angle perfect wavedashes... one right after the other.

So in essence what I am trying to say here is that to be a truly effective Mario you must make use of all of his movement options... not just sliding about. Don't get me wrong though, wavedashing is an important and nessecary part of the mustache's game and should be used often; but only when profitable.
 

mario-man

Smash Lord
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Feb 6, 2007
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Okay Face, first.

I meant to put in that dashdancing is not to be omitted. Also, I did not intend to include jumping as movement. Jumping is not included in the meaning of "movement" every time I said it. When I said "movement", I meant anything that you do to "move" while still touching the ground. I'll try to figure out where to insert it in the original.


Oh, Face, have you seen any recent Eggz vids?? LOL I know you have. Notice that thing that he does soooooo dang often.........I think it's called Wave Dashing:p
 

FaceFaceMcFace

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562
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Radford/Martinsville, VA
Righty-o. The main goal of my previous post was to aid in the prevention of newer players saying "I WAVEDERSH BUT STILL NOT WINZ!! THIS SENSE MAKE NOT."

But also notice that those wavedashes are almost always mixed in with some other form of movement unless it was done simply for spacing. Yes use it a lot, for mario is one of the characters that benifits greatly from the existence of the wavedash (versus it not being in the game at all); but do not get closed-minded about it.
 

mario-man

Smash Lord
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Feb 6, 2007
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Well, I didn't mean to say that you can't dash to turn around. You have to dash to change directions. LOL And notice how I said "fast AND SMART..." No excuses now. I covered my behind.
 

maelstrom218

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 23, 2004
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Madison, WI
Wavedashing is overrated.

The reason? First off, it's predictable. Wavedash length can be slightly altered with correct joystick directional input, but when you break it down, once you start a wavedash, you're doing one of two things: you're either moving forward a set distance, or you're moving backwards a set distance. That's it. If you're "fast," but predictable, that doesn't really contribute to your game. Predictable Foxes, no matter how fast they are, can be utterly destroyed because they're predictable. Same thing with a wavedash-spamming Mario.

Second, wavedashing is not as versatile as everyone makes it out to be. Just because you can move back and forth relatively quickly doesn't mean it's useful. Compare that to dashdancing, where you have far more control over the distance you cover on the ground (the length of the dash) and additionally, DI over the distance you cover when you jump + an aerial. Remember, wavedashing is primarily a SPACING tool more than anything else--there are rare exceptions where wavedashing is more for rushdown, like Luigi, or more for movement, like Samus--but when you have more control over distance with dash-dancing, wavedashing is far from the necessary tool that most people deem it to be.

What is wavedashing useful for with Mario?

- spacing (against characters like Marth, when combined with out-of-shield wavedashing)
- sweetspotting f-smashes (wavedash back -> f-smash)
- fast edgehogs
- better mobility on platforms (wavelanding)
- VERY limited ground-based rushdown/pressure tactics (wavedash + grab/jab)

And that's about it, barring some other minor details. By no means should wavedashing dominate your play, ever. That leads to predictability issues and being limited to your short-ranged, mediocre ground game, which is something that you want to avoid. Sparse wavedashing mixed with other stuff (dash-dancing, mostly) is great. Spamming wavedashing is not.

And don't worry, mario-man, I'm not slamming you. It's just that people in general sometimes have this warped notion that wavedashing is amazing. They overrate it. Wavedashing, when you boil it down, is just another tactic to make you less predictable and open up opportunities. Overuse of anything in Smash is never good.
 

mario-man

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I know your not slammin me Maelstrom, I guess some people aren't cut out like Eggz and me. That's okay, believe me. It's not a bad thing. I'm referring to PERSONAL experience here. I must have a different playstyle than you. Oh well.

BTW, I'm not being arrogant. I am NOT arrogant AT ALL. To me, WDing is the utmost of importance. Sorry I wasted everyone's time reading this thread.
 

Super Mari0

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Apr 29, 2007
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I know your not slammin me Maelstrom, I guess some people aren't cut out like Eggz and me. That's okay, believe me. It's not a bad thing. I'm referring to PERSONAL experience here. I must have a different playstyle thank you. Oh well.

BTW, I'm not being arrogant. I am NOT arrogant AT ALL. To me, WDing is the utmost of importance. Sorry I wasted everyone's time reading this thread.
I COMPLETELY agree to what mario-man says... believe me , mario-man youre NOT alone

I think it looks SO cool ...after Ive seen Eggz do it so fluently and all...I do it all the time now ....You just shouldnt use it TOO often :chuckle: or youll WD directly into an opponents Smash or whatever

its also good to outsmart your opponent when using WD... You know...WD Back+Dash Forward+WD Back+Dash back+WD Back and all that fluently...awesome!

well....you cant really describe it...best to do it with vids^^ and NOT TO MENTION its fun!
and Mario-Man stop thinking only YOU and Eggz would be WDing alot! lol
 

mario-man

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I COMPLETELY agree to what mario-man says... believe me , mario-man youre NOT alone

I think it looks SO cool ...after Ive seen Eggz do it so fluently and all...I do it all the time now ....You just shouldnt use it TOO often :chuckle: or youll WD directly into an opponents Smash or whatever

its also good to outsmart your opponent when using WD... You know...WD Back+Dash Forward+WD Back+Dash back+WD Back and all that fluently...awesome!

well....you cant really describe it...best to do it with vids^^ and NOT TO MENTION its fun!
and Mario-Man stop thinking only YOU and Eggz would be WDing alot! lol
Thx for supporting me.

However, I WD more than alot. That was the whole problem. I WD practically the entire match. Maelstrom was saying that I should use dashing etc... more often.


ALRIGHT GUYSES!!!! I'm puttin some vids up. I'll yell and scream and shout when they're up so you guys know when to look. LOL
BUT, they're not even close to my best. Better than nothing though, right??
 

FaceFaceMcFace

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Will these vids be against a person Mario-man? If not there really isn't much of a point. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, tis just the truth.... videos of you fighting a computer will not show in any way how you would fare in a match against a person.
 

mario-man

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
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I know, but it's all I've got right now. Sadly, they are against the comp. At least you can get SOME kind of idea on my techskill at least. Though, I'm much better techwise than even the vids show.

EDIT: These MAY be up tonight. It depends on wether Eggz responds to his Myspace messages before say....11:30 ET.
 
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