Genes or psychologicall?

[Falco&Victory]

As everyone probably knows, America is the leading country for obesity, in both children and adults. Many scientists argue simply that it is no ones fault if they are overweight, and that eating habits are 100% genealogical. Many people will take this side of the issue, and many do. However, several facts contradict this reasoning.

If genes are the only cause in most cases of obesity, why aren't other countries overweight? How come most obese people I know admit that it's their fault? Why is The Biggest Loser such a successful show?

Do some people want to believe so strongly that some people aren't just lazy that they will really defend them? Gluttony is a sin, and some people actually convince themselves that it is not their fault in order to not feel guilty. In my opinion, with enough willpower anyone can be at a healthy weight(or under, if you are at a lack of food).

I understand that stress and anger issues cause hair loss and weight gain, but there are medications and seminars that help humans deal with stress and weight gain. Some cases of obesity may be caused by severe genealogical problems, but I believe everyone can work to get themselves fit, and that not trying simply makes them a drain on society.

So much publicity is put out in the media saying, "It may not be your fault!", and these are all just scams to try to get you to buy a product or are guided by someone who truly believes it's the truth. The problem is people are actually starting to believe it's true. I think the government should crack down on these acts, as well as certain programs like 'No child left behind'. The problem with treating everyone with an equal education or an equal sense of importance is that it is holding people with genuine promise behind. When humans come to terms with their faults then I believe America will be a much more suitable country,

 

[Kalypso]

There are two types of obesity, genetic and psychological. The answer isn't one or the other, but both. Any country has its share of genetically obese people. The reason America's obesity level is so high, though, is our level of luxury. We have more stuff than anyone else, so we are more inclined to eat more and exercise less. Standard of living and laziness increase and decrease with one another. So, both. Everyone has the same % of genetically obese people though, roughly.

All apathetic obesity is the persons fault. Very rarely is it genetics. I'm a bit overweight, and it's completely my fault. I like to eat and I don't like to move, so I gain a few pounds, when needed I lose it. I just enjoy being fat and happy most of the time.

 

[Falco&Victory]

Yes, genetics do pay a role in many cases, however I don't believe there is a single unsolvable case, not including those with psychological or physical disorders. It's all about whether or not you have the willpower to get up and exercise 20 minutes a day.

The other point I was trying to get across was how the media should not be portraying obesity as some epidemic. They should just get over the fact that if you're overweight, it's you're fault. In the case of extreme genetics I will use the debatable statement: The act of not solving a problem is just as bad as the act of creating that problem.

 

[Kalypso]

The other point I was trying to get across was how the media should not be portraying obesity as some epidemic. They should just get over the fact that if you're overweight, it's you're fault. In the case of extreme genetics I will use the debatable statement: The act of not solving a problem is just as bad as the act of creating that problem.

People will blame any problem they have on anything but themselves. It's sad, but it's true, and the media just helps it along.

 

[Falco&Victory]

It's not just people with weight problems. Other people are beginning to interpret it as fact. Under 3%(under last estimate) of eating disorders stem from genes.

Any input on psychological affects on weight? I believe that most cases are genuine, though some are also just excuses.

 

[snex]

the idea behind genetic obesity is that they have a significantly reduced amount of signaling chemical that tells them they are full. when you eat, your stomach feels full because it sends messages to your brain, which then releases a chemical that tells you your stomach feels full. genetically obese people are missing some part of this signalling pathway (at least thats theory).

the reason you dont see this in a lot of other countries is that they simply dont eat as much, or as unhealthily, as we do. give africa a mcdonalds on every block and a livable minimum wage and youll probably see the same percentages.

 

[blazedaces]

the idea behind genetic obesity is that they have a significantly reduced amount of signaling chemical that tells them they are full. when you eat, your stomach feels full because it sends messages to your brain, which then releases a chemical that tells you your stomach feels full. genetically obese people are missing some part of this signalling pathway (at least thats theory).

the reason you dont see this in a lot of other countries is that they simply dont eat as much, or as unhealthily, as we do. give africa a mcdonalds on every block and a livable minimum wage and youll probably see the same percentages.

That makes a lot of sense (second part about other countries). But, it doesn't mean we shouldn't do something about it. Something simple would be to increase requirements for nation-wide physical education classes. Right now, it's dependent on the state's board of education.

Some states have only required gym classes once a week. Others every day. Does this make a difference? I'm not even talking about gym only, I'm also talking about health classes that teach kids what is a proper, healthy diet, and how we should go about exercising if we want to, etc. Personally, I believe education is the first step towards massive change. Our future depends on it,

-blazed

 

[Falco&Victory]

the idea behind genetic obesity is that they have a significantly reduced amount of signaling chemical that tells them they are full. when you eat, your stomach feels full because it sends messages to your brain, which then releases a chemical that tells you your stomach feels full. genetically obese people are missing some part of this signaling pathway (at least thats theory).

the reason you dont see this in a lot of other countries is that they simply dont eat as much, or as unhealthily, as we do. give africa a mcdonalds on every block and a livable minimum wage and youll probably see the same percentages.

All these points are true, however I still believe in the sin of not doing. I agree with Blaze, people are being lazy, and not enough people are taken interest in out general fitness. In my PE class they would only have us run every Friday(about 2.3 miles) and Wednesday(about .45 miles). As I said, genetic obesity is a very rare case. Psychologically, some people's brains are making their body gain weight because some perfectly healthy people believe they have a deficiency. Other, more educated people know that they have nothing wrong but convince themselves there's nothing they can do about it. In my opinion if you're overweight, there's something you can do about it, regardless of what other people tell you.

 

[Kalypso]

That makes a lot of sense (second part about other countries). But, it doesn't mean we shouldn't do something about it. Something simple would be to increase requirements for nation-wide physical education classes. Right now, it's dependent on the state's board of education.

Some states have only required gym classes once a week. Others every day. Does this make a difference? I'm not even talking about gym only, I'm also talking about health classes that teach kids what is a proper, healthy diet, and how we should go about exercising if we want to, etc. Personally, I believe education is the first step towards massive change. Our future depends on it,

-Asaf Erlich

I'm clueless as to how someone doesn't know what's good and bad for them. The information is everywhere, for as long as I can remember I've known what's good and what's bad for me in general. It's like smoking, does anyone start smoking thinking it's good for them? Not unless they've been pretty severely conned, almost everyone knows the **** and chooses to eat bad food anyway, cuz it tastes good.

 

[Falco&Victory]

It happens because people fool themselves into thinking it's not bad for them. It's the psychological power of the brain. Many people did start smoking thinking it had no negative affects, believing the stress-relief outweighed the 'potential' health problems. Some people also believe that eating good tasting food will have the same outcome of smoking: they build a dependency and believe that it is an incurable dependency, and trying to ignore it would be bad for them.

 

[snex]

well we all know certain foods are bad for us, but if your body doesnt tell you when you are full, how do you know when youve eaten too much?

i mean, you can sit there counting calories on everything you eat, but is it really worth it? do YOU do it? i doubt it.

 

[blazedaces]

well we all know certain foods are bad for us, but if your body doesnt tell you when you are full, how do you know when youve eaten too much?

i mean, you can sit there counting calories on everything you eat, but is it really worth it? do YOU do it? i doubt it.

I consider myself a fairly healthy person. I opt to eat salad/vegetables/fruits over french fries/potato chips/ice cream. I exercise at least every other day. I play basketball and I run and sometimes I lift weights (maybe like twice a week these days, I've been playing basketball a lot). My father just turned 50. He bikes 6 days a week, works out at the gym very often (he went to college to be a physical education instructor and has always been into sports, even though that's not his job these days). Everyone in my family keeps up a healthy diet and exercises a decent amount, even my sister and mother quite a bit.

I hate using anecdotal evidence, but many people I know don't want to exercise, at all. A lot of the same people complain about weight all the time. I'm serious about the following too: some people have gone with me to the gym (most of these happen to be girls who do this) and what do they do... bike machine for an hour. I ask them why they don't lift weights, just using low weight and high repetitions, but they answer that they don't want to develop muscles!

Note: I'm not making fun of people who don't want to develop muscles, but if you know anything about weight lifting, you know that using low weights with high reps develops a lean, long look and builds up your muscle's endurance, not large muscles. Someone last year told me they didn't want to continue playing twister with us anymore because she might develop muscles at this rate... after a couple of days. I know it can feel sore by then, but even in a month of that you're not going to see a noticeable difference!

When they work with some of the machines in that room (lifting weights and using machines that have weights is not different) I have to point out that they should probably do more then one set of an exercise to actually work the muscle correctly. I'm not an expert on weight lifting, I just have a decent physical education.

Dude, to the person who mentioned that we all know and used smoking as an example, what are you talking about? There's a whole lot of education about drugs/smoking in schools. Still, for a very long time there was not a lot of word out about how bad it was for you. We don't all know these things... how can we? Still, even people know that some foods are bad for you over others, do they know the food groups? Do they know they should drink 3 cups of milk a day for healthy bones and to reduce the risk of osteoporosis when they are older? Do they know the required vitamins and minerals? Do they know not to eat too much cholesterol? People say that anyone, if they really wanted, could lose weight. Do most people know how to go about losing weight properly?! NO!

People actually believe the Atkins diet is a healthy diet! People actually believe that eating mostly meat, which is basically eating protein, cholesterol, and fat alone is a good idea, not to mention the idea of making a chemical imbalance in our bodies is stupid even before you consider this.

Do people know that for every pound of muscle you burn 3 pounds of fat per year?! No.

There are people who tell me they are old at the age of 16 and that they hope they don't have to live past 50...? What is this nonsense? We are not educated on this subject as a society or as a people. We don't all know what we need to know in order to live out healthy, substantial lives. I never said people were too lazy. Yes, people are lazy, but if they really knew what to eat and not to eat, really knew the proper way to exercise, then I believe we would drastically reduce the obesity in this country, not to mention a plethora of other health-related problems.

-blazed

 

[lonejedi]

well we all know certain foods are bad for us, but if your body doesnt tell you when you are full, how do you know when youve eaten too much?

i mean, you can sit there counting calories on everything you eat, but is it really worth it? do YOU do it? i doubt it.

It isn't hard to know when you've eaten enough. I mean, when you eat two hamburgers, and some fries, Im sure that is enough for that meal. People can use the excuse of genes all they want, but what it really comes down to is lazyness.

I'm 16, I'm 6'2 ,I weigh 135 pounds, I'm rather slim. I love to work out, I love to exercise, I love to play sports. One most of these things are fun for me, and two it's rather easy for someone who weighs less, or average, to do these things. Now you take someone who is over weight. It's going to be increasingly harder for that person to do these activities, because of their weight. Someone who is overweight is going to get tired out faster, which is going to make them give up on exercising. It's both a mentally and physically demanding task.

And someone who is my size, that is trying to encourage them to lose weight, won't do much to get them anywhere. They look at me and say, you know nothing about being overweight, and then push me to the side. This is why The Biggest Loser did so well. They placed a group of Over-Weight Individuals together. These people were in the same boat, and they all encouraged each other to get the job done, and they all knew they were in the same spot.

Obesity could be in the genes, but very little of it is. It's more of the willingness of the person to lose the weight.

 

[KevinM]

well we all know certain foods are bad for us, but if your body doesnt tell you when you are full, how do you know when youve eaten too much?

i mean, you can sit there counting calories on everything you eat, but is it really worth it? do YOU do it? i doubt it.

Snex, a lot of people don't have to eat until they feel they are completely full. You are supposed to eat until you have the proper nutrition and by eating a healthy meal you should be sure that you have received it. After a couple of burgers you should stop eating, you don't need to keep pounding them down until you feel you are about to burst. That type of mindset proves that obesity would be the person's fault and not genetics.

 

[blazedaces]

Snex, a lot of people don't have to eat until they feel they are completely full. You are supposed to eat until you have the proper nutrition and by eating a healthy meal you should be sure that you have received it. After a couple of burgers you should stop eating, you don't need to keep pounding them down until you feel you are about to burst. That type of mindset proves that obesity would be the person's fault and not genetics.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. We feel full because our stomach is full. That's it... If we kept eating eventually our stomach would burst. We would probably throw up before that. Eating less is not the answer.

If one doesn't eat until one's body feels satisfied then the body gets what food it can get, and realizing that it isn't getting enough over time will simply store most food as fat for long lasting storage. We need to eat healthier food and burn some through exercise. There's a big difference if you fill yourself up all the time with doritos over let's say fruits/vegetables...

-blazed

 

[Kalypso]

RE: Salad

Man didn't conquer the world to eat grass and croûtons. **** salad. There's healthy eating options that are actually food. And honestly, some salads aren't even healthy, McDonalds salads are the least healthy thing on their menu.

**** salad.

 

[blazedaces]

RE: Salad

Man didn't conquer the world to eat grass and croûtons. **** salad. There's healthy eating options that are actually food. And honestly, some salads aren't even healthy, McDonalds salads are the least healthy thing on their menu.

**** salad.

It's funny: salad dressings are extremely fattening and unhealthy. Sure, putting a little bit on is alright, but when you douse a bunch of lettuce with salad dressing you're really hurting yourself more then anything else. I also always found it odd how much lettuce is used in salad in this country (or at least compared to other countries I've been to). In Israel almost all salads are comprised of various vegetables and sometimes fruit (almost never any lettuce). They don't even use salad dressing, the vegetable juice itself gives the taste. Israeli salad is my favorite salad next to that green japanese salad with ginger dressing, I just love that stuff...

 

[blazedaces]

I do not know exactly why, but psicicle sent me this in a PM. Next time, I mean I don't mind, but why not just post this in the thread? Anyways, here's the response:

Hi I was reading the genes and psycological thread and... you guys are all wrong. Evidence comes from an episode of science friday in an interview with Gina Kolata.

Anyway, if you can, can you post this stuff in the thread? So far you guys have just been arguing against nobody and agreeing with each other.

You said:

Some states have only required gym classes once a week. Others every day. Does this make a difference? I'm not even talking about gym only, I'm also talking about health classes that teach kids what is a proper, healthy diet, and how we should go about exercising if we want to, etc. Personally, I believe education is the first step towards massive change. Our future depends on it,

however, this has been shown to be ineffective through a few large federally funded studies in which schools were randomly selected as control schools and the schools which were to receive exactly what you are describing. I can't cite this study since it came from audio, but the results were that even with intense physical education as well as nutritional education did nothing to lower rates of obesity or overweightness among these children.

Another point is that from looking at a large selection of studies, it is almost physically impossible for some "overweight" people to lose any of this weight outside of a roughly 20 pound threshold. As you get lighter, your body counteracts by slowing your metabolism. Not only is it difficult to get below this threshold, it is also unhealthy to be above or below you body's preferred weight. By that I do not mean the conventional "overweight" and "normal" definitions, I mean a widely fluctuating weight amongst different people. In fact, a statistical study has shown that on average, people that are "overweight" tend to live longest out of people of any of these weight categories. No matter what, even adjusting for smokers, and other variables, overwight people tended to live longer in a sort of bell curve relating weight to age at death. This was not jsut for mildly overwight people, it included people from the whole category. The thin people in the study were not "abnormally thin" or suffering from any problems, they were people who had been quite underweight all their lives.

As for the other countries thing, I would like to see some evidence for that. From the science reporter's experience, she could not tell whether somebody in europe was an american or european based on weight. Of course, that is just anecdotal evidence but statistics would help.

Oh yeah, and this guy:
"In my opinion if you're overweight, there's something you can do about it, regardless of what other people tell you."

pretty much wrong, at least according to science and statistics.

Thanks for reading this if you did, please post it in the DH!

I'd very much like to know more details about this study, because if one was doing such a study there's a lot more one can observe besides just percentage of obesity. Still, it's quite interesting information...

-blazed

 

[Falco&Victory]

Wow, I've been gone maybe 10 hours and this thread got flooded.
First, @Snex. Do I eat until after I feel full? No, it makes me feel sick, and I can't work out. Do I diet? **** no, I don't diet. I couldn't if I wanted to. I have problems with my blood sugar, so I usually snack every one or 2 hours on some bread or fruit, which are strictly non-fattening.

@psicicle. There's a difference between obese and overweight people. Some people's bodies are simply built large. If they are obese, it is simple to lower your weight and keep your metabolism healthy. The answer is to eat normally, drink a lot of water, and exercise a lot to keep your heart healthy. There are also medications that raise your metabolism.
If schools are failing at lowering weight it's because you are not required to pass PE to pass school. The education system has the right to make you run or fail. People are just lazy and can't stand 30 minutes of exercise 5 times a week. In teens it's actually been shown that with our naturally high metabolism a healthy teen only needs about 15 or 20 minutes of exercise a day, as long as they don't eat too unhealthily.