Ganon's placement in tier list

[Crezyte]

Hey PM Ganons and non Ganons. I'd like to know what you opinions are on where Ganon should be in the tier list. I started a debate with someone over Facebook and thought it best to continue it here rather than filling up a facebook post with good information. So heres how it has gone so far:

Him: Everyone thinks Ganon is ass tier. They just don't know how to play ganon, thats all lol

Me: Ganon is combo bag material and edgeguard bag material. He has new tricks and a better (possibly broken?) down throw. But he isn't that different from melee Dorf so, he still gets bopped by faster characters and even more projectiles that PM has than melee.

Him: he gets combo'd sure, but his ground game is much superior to melee's, especially with the addition of his ridiculous DACUS. Not to mention if you land flame choke (ground version) you get a free wizard kick tech chase no matter what they do. you can do it on reaction because you can do b reversal wizard kick. he is a lot different than melee dorf, you're just playing him like melee dorf. I don't have lots of trouble with projectiles, the only ones that totally bop me are ivysaurs razor leaf. Falco lasers and needles are no big deal. same with any slower projectile, they are easy to deal with.



without further ado, lets begin!

 

[Crezyte]

Yeah so I don't know who you are playing with but any falco that doesn't trouble you with lasers isn't doing it right plus there are plenty of projectiles that just need to hit you for characters to start doing their thing. I'm curious as to why you are having trouble with razor leaf though, could you explain why a bit? Also, I'd like to mention that Ganon's DACUS is pretty punishable and should only be used for chases.

 

[Yanoss1313]

lol, damn it, i was gonna make this thread >.<

but yeah, i'm really not shocked by his placement... so PMBR, about time for those buffs?

and your friend sounds like a D-bag, >.>

 

[Mongoose132]

<.<

I think Ganon is the only heavy who doesn't have armor of some kind...

Yeah...



He just needs Falco's lasers for his new neutral b PMBR

 

[teluoborg]

Ganon is better in PM than in melee or in Brawl, but there's a bunch of characters that are better than him.

Right now I see two main problems with Ganon, that prevent him from being better :
1-he needs some quality of life changes that most other melee characters got, like some consistency in his hitboxes and removing some absurd lags.

2-he doesn't get enough advantages from his strong points compared to how much he suffers from his weaknesses.

1 is easy and straightforward, 2 will be harder for the pmbr to figure out.

 

[Touching_Everything]

Note: Its very unorganized

Warlock kick
-invincible box thing on his foot.
-lock foot should be faster from "a" to "b".
-Less knockback on the foot
-I would like to say less lag so he can approach projectile spammers but it would seem it would be super unfair on the recovery end.
(or make it so that you can jump out of it and able to use an attack)

Warlock punch(The most useless thing unless you are fighting a Jigg)
I'm not sure... make is come out like SSB64 falcon punch and get rid of most its kill juice?
(I do appreciate the lock stall punch. but its never used)
-Or make it have less lag at the end.

-Character changer shti: Could we get rid of the down b refreshes jump in replacement we could have the side b not put you in the fall state, Make sure it has pretty good lag to it so you don't float forever. Than the kick can have less endlag to approach the projectile spammers.
This way, he has the about same amount of recovery but a way to approach.
just thoughts...

-Flame choke
(repeat from above: Using flame choke will not put you in special fall state)
-having this would make him pretty scary trying to stage dive him(since if he misses he still has a chance back)
-The move is pretty slow, this would make it alright since it would make him pretty gimpable/edgegaurdable
-having this would allow him to save his second jump(read below?)

(However he is still combo'd the **** out of, we could have... like.. 2nd jump 10% shield or something to get out of small combo and/or edge gaurds, since he is very predictable and slow.(and if we got rid of special down refresh he wouldn't be ungimpable/edge guard-able.


I would pretty much disliked him if he had a projectile or used the ****ty sword. He IS POWER he should use is fist and foot!
Just... my thoughts. (hes my main, I-.. He's not my best... =_=

 

[Crezyte]

I like the flame choke recovery idea, especially since it means that you wont be punished for trying to get a second jump by like half or more of the cast (its pretty easy to hit ganon after he down-bs off stage). Still do you think that Gman deserves to be put next to (or even below) characters like ICCs? Thats a bit whack if you ask me...

 

[teluoborg]

Ditto on the side B change. Also make Ganon not fall like a brick at the end of it, but allow him to keep some momentum.

Anyway I'm adding this suggestion to the list of the meta thread.

 

[Prince Longstrok]

Ive already heard people ***** about his recovery (which is just salt, really).

The extra jump out of WF only helps when we are sent skyward and have to recover horizontaly- vertical wise its fairly useless. Idk.. I guess im satisfied with his recovery as is- since WF will apike anyone who fails to pubish correctly, and ive gotten a ton of stage spikes from dark dive accidently as is.


Now warlock punch.. Man..
what if we could reverse it a few frames before it launches? It would make a deadly tech chase option while keeping the move itself fairly straightforward

 

[Crezyte]

The recovery thing isn't entirely salt from my side. Having played with so many good players, the trend of not being able to recover the jump from down-b off stage by getting tapped seems to happen pretty frequently. Which is why I would suggest that the idea is tossed in favor of a new recovery that doesn't give a jump but makes it a bit easier to get back on stage.

I like the warlock punch thing but its not a move one should even use anyway. So, I wouldn't bother with it if there are more pressing changes to be made to other characters. If it were to be changed however, it'd be a "cool feature" change rather than a "competitive viability rework" change.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

p:m ganondorf is mediocre. come to the melee side. we have good jabs and satisfying down airs.


and cookies.

 

[Touching_Everything]

Ive already heard people ***** about his recovery (which is just salt, really).

The extra jump out of WF only helps when we are sent skyward and have to recover horizontaly- vertical wise its fairly useless. Idk.. I guess im satisfied with his recovery as is- since WF will apike anyone who fails to pubish correctly, and ive gotten a ton of stage spikes from dark dive accidently as is.


Now warlock punch.. Man..
what if we could reverse it a few frames before it launches? It would make a deadly tech chase option while keeping the move itself fairly straightforward

Don't get me wrong, gannons recovery is pretty good. however its just limited, predictable and slow making him the easiest to edge gaurd.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

gannon

pretty good

limited, predictable and slow making him the easiest to edge gaurd

LOL there is so much wrong with that post

 

[Touching_Everything]

LOL there is so much wrong with that post

I mean, getting on stage isn't a problem if your opponent isn't waiting for you at the edge
(like either star K.O, other side of the stage ect.)

If the opponent is waiting; its garbage, yes.

 

[Prince Longstrok]

I mean, we cant ask for a "better" recovery AND buffs to him overall. The ebst thing about being a Ganon main is only the few and proud take up the task c:

 

[Mongoose132]

Just dont get knocked off stage. Play smart enough that they have to kill you from a smash, instead of a gimp or edge hog. I find that getting that hit box at the end of his recovery to help.
I think Ganon needs more attention, but I'll take a mediocre recovery for buffs in other places....

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

Why is this a thread? We already have a changes/suggestions thread, and a tier list speculation thread over in General Discussion.

This is pointless.

 

[Yanoss1313]

Why is this a thread? We already have a changes/suggestions thread, and a tier list speculation thread over in General Discussion.

This is pointless.

lol, i assumed it was to talk about clash's new tier list: http://clashtournaments.com/project-m-3-02-preliminary-tier-list/
but then it quickly devolved into a changes/suggestions thread. iunno.

edit: That's also why i was like, AW NUTS! YOU BEAT ME TO IT! (or something like that)

 

[Yanoss1313]

BUMPER!

wait, so nobody wants to talk about Clash Tournaments's preliminary project m tier list?....

I are disappointed :o

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

BUMPER!

wait, so nobody wants to talk about Clash Tournaments's preliminary project m tier list?....

I are disappointed :o

It was weird to see a list with Ganon not on bottom I guess.

 

[Crezyte]

BUMPER!

wait, so nobody wants to talk about Clash Tournaments's preliminary project m tier list?....

I are disappointed :o

Yeah thats what this was for... and I was using what he's got now to argue why he should be where... and people just ****ed it up because thats what the internets does.