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Ganon VS Roy Advice

ChanseyMaster

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Dec 31, 2006
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I'm wondering about two things in an upcoming battle against a Roy player (I've only played Ganon for about a week now)

1) Roy edgeguards the crap out of Ganon with his neutral B and F-Smash; how should I go about recovering.

2) What's a good stage counterpick for Ganon v. Roy?

Thanks for any help.

[ChanseyMaster]
 

thebluedeath1000

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Roy does not edgeguard ganon well as his power is at the hlit of his sword so if hes that close to the edge, most if the time you can attack him as you get back.

Unless roy is one of the few good ones, ganon should really win easy due to roy's horrible combos, all ganon has to due is use a few over-b/stomp/anything tech chase combos and its practically over.

Roy's recovery is extremely easy to edgeguard..plus it pops you up so you can make it back easier even if he hits you.

err..I suppose counter can be scary but if you just trick him into doing it, hes dead.
 

ChanseyMaster

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Thanks tbd.

Yeah Jeff, he challenged me to a match with a different character.

Still, can anyone give me a good idea for a stage counterpick?

[ChanseyMaster]
 

thebluedeath1000

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A flat stage I guess since tech chasing would be easy, Final destination...then again, a small stage would lead to quick kills since ganon hits hard...anything really.

Just don't screw yourself over with an over-b or down-b near the edge all right?
 

Frozenserpent

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Roy does not edgeguard ganon well as his power is at the hlit of his sword so if hes that close to the edge, most if the time you can attack him as you get back.

Unless roy is one of the few good ones, ganon should really win easy due to roy's horrible combos...
I'll have to disagree with this. Roy has an easy edgeguard on a ganon that can't ledge tech, on account of his neutral b.
Also, roy combos more than ganon does, on account of weak aerials (but his combos don't have much power).
If you hit him with a revere uair when he's out of the stage, he's gone. He has such a ridiculously lousy recovery, it's not even funny.
Grabs are nice. Good things happen from a dthrow.
 

ChanseyMaster

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Thanks for the help, I'll see how my battle goes down in a few days. (Hopefully I can work my ledge teching up to a mediocre level, but possibly enough to get out of a few of his attacks.)

[ChanseyMaster]
 

thebluedeath1000

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Frozen serpent...ganon can edgetech his neutral b, why did you think otherwise? If the blade hits, he can tech, if the explosion hits, he can tech...I've did both before.

And oh my god, roy combos more than ganon does?! *dies* but seriously..thats really insulting to the mighty ganon, saying roy has more combos lol.

No sir, you are wrong. Go watch tipman or Chadd.

Roy's combos are situational and weak..he can't combo well at all, ganon tech chases with over-b and d-airs you then does as he likes.


Roy has his d-tilt to whatever combo..thats basicly it as far as reliable ones go.
Also throw in the fact that there are extremely few good roys.
 

OF 'til I OD

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1. As for Roy edgeguarding goes, Sweetspot the edge. In the even of a missed sweetspot, attempt to tech his attack.
2. Go FD. You can CG Roy early, and bair or uair out of it.

Also, do no over-b --> stomp. That leads to NO combo. It simply racks up damage, that could also be racked up doing over-b --> uair or bair (possibly fair). And rather than even over-bing, it's easier to down throw bair or uair.

Also, Ganon's fair out prioritizes most of Roy's moves. Use it.

Roy's combos are situational and weak..he can't combo well at all, ganon tech chases with over-b and d-airs you then does as he likes.
All combos are "situational". Missed DIs, wrong DIs, no DIs at all. That's what makes combos. No combo is guaranteed. Weak? Roy's Fsmash is anything but weak.


Roy has his d-tilt to whatever combo..thats basicly it as far as reliable ones go.
He has more than that. Fair -> dair -> nair -> fsmash
Fair->grab
Fair->dair->fsmash

Among other similar ones.
 

thebluedeath1000

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Toecutter, leave me be, you've went around and tried to pick apart every post I've made recently, stop.

Only thing strong of roy's is the f-smash, I never said it was weak, his combos are.

his f-smash doesn't combo.

Not all combos are situational, marth can keep people in fair chains all day long.
 

OF 'til I OD

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Only thing strong of roy's is the f-smash, I never said it was weak, his combos are.

his f-smash doesn't combo.
rofl. Reverse Up+B on Jigglypuff isn't strong? Dsmash on floaties not strong? XD And his fsmash is a part of the combo, making the combo "not weak".


Not all combos are situational, marth can keep people in fair chains all day long.
lawl...it's called DI. DI away.
 

KevinM

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Toecutter said:
All combos are "situational". Missed DIs, wrong DIs, no DIs at all. That's what makes combos. No combo is guaranteed. Weak? Roy's Fsmash is anything but weak.
Roy's F-smash may not be weak when sweetspotted but its nigh impossible to get that in there on any decent ganon that knows how to space, plus hate to break it to you, but the f-tilt can come out faster then the f-smash so if the ganon player has good reflexes he shouldn't have to worry about the move as much as you make it seem that its strong.

Toecutter said:
He has more than that. Fair -> dair -> nair -> fsmash
Fair->grab
Fair->dair->fsmash

Among other similar ones.
Wrong again, most of those combos can be DI'd out of like you said yourself and literally your fair dair nair combos would not work because Roy, although having a good shffl game, just doesn't combo. Some of the best Roy players in the world agree that roy has literally like one or two set combo's and even those can be avoided and most of his little one or two hit combo's start with D-tilt.

Toecutter said:
rofl. Reverse Up+B on Jigglypuff isn't strong? Dsmash on floaties not strong? XD And his fsmash is a part of the combo, making the combo "not weak".
Sure Reverse UpB can kill a jiggly in one hit but it still doesn't mean that Roy would be **** on jigglypuff. Roy just flat out isn't a good character and you shouldn't have trouble against him as ganon, you outrange him and none of his attacks should pose a threat.. Granted if your facing Neo your in trouble but yea. Oh and D-smash is one of his worst moves and kills at 70 percent and above 100 percent on DL64, so although strong, its too laggy to be used in anything but a situational desperation kill really.
 

thebluedeath1000

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Thanks kevin..just said everything I was about to say.

Toecutter, stop trying to pick apart everything I say, you just make yourself look dumb.

. Fair -> dair -> nair -> fsmash with roy?..

You are indeed making yourself look dumb.
 

ChanseyMaster

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Hmm, looks like my thread stirred up a little argument.

Even so, reading through the last few posts I think I've come out with some decent battle plans. Still, any other information anyone could dish out would be a large help.

Also, I've come up with a few quick moves, and I'm wondering if any of them would be valuable in battle:

Dair -> Thunderpunch -> Down-B
U-Throw -> Thunderpunch -> Down-B
Dash attack -> (turn around) Thunderpunch -> Dash attack -> (turn around) Thunderpunch (repeat, usually works up to about 60-70)

I'm asking because lately I've had to practice on computer Roy's just to feel out how hard they get hit from my attacks, etc. and I'm wondering if any of these would work on a real Roy (who doesn't DI too much, so I feel the combos may have a chance of working)

Lastly, could dash canceling and then thunderpunching be a viable technique to use?

[ChanseyMaster]
 

thebluedeath1000

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Yes..it can.

don't try to set up a certain combo, just go with the flow of battle as you're going to have to be tech-chasing alot.

I guess the first two combos would work on a less skilled player...
the dash attack+jab thing isn't going to work...just chaingrab him if you want.

You can also chaingrab roy with ganon's d-throw a good amount of damage so once you grab him, d-throw him for a good time..then end it as you like.

Depending on his skill level, the chaingrab will either tap on a decent amount of damage or end him completely.

If you haven't practiced chaingrabbing him, please do so..try to lead the chaingrab into a kill hit.
 

Ulti

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I think Roy can shield grab you out of D-air-> jab, since you're looking at least 25 frames between when you stomp and the jab, that's a lot of time. If you do land the stomp, I wouldn't go for the jab just because Roy doesn't fall quite fast to warrant a jab - you can probably get away with u-air/f-tilt and maybe even a b-air.

If Roy down-throws you, you'll probably want to DI away just so you get away from that sweetspotted f-smash.

Edit: While I love the down-b, I really wouldn't suggest combo-ing into it. Try to use it as a surprise move to force your opponent off the stage when nothing else seems to be working.
 

technomancer

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Play defensively and when he approaches take to the air to avoid grabs and dtilts.

Always edgehog when he's off the side, then just hop up and do whatever. Stomp kills Roy at like 100% and is fairly unexpected.

DI all throws down, you won't get smashed that way. Any obvious fair crap is probably going to get countered so make sure to mix it up and punish him for countering so he stops doing it.

This match is more even than it looks, and Roy can combo heavyweights well if they don't DI away, so for god's sake DI away.
 

Frozenserpent

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Frozen serpent...ganon can edgetech his neutral b, why did you think otherwise? If the blade hits, he can tech, if the explosion hits, he can tech...I've did both before.

And oh my god, roy combos more than ganon does?! *dies* but seriously..thats really insulting to the mighty ganon, saying roy has more combos lol.

No sir, you are wrong. Go watch tipman or Chadd.

Roy's combos are situational and weak..he can't combo well at all, ganon tech chases with over-b and d-airs you then does as he likes.


Roy has his d-tilt to whatever combo..thats basicly it as far as reliable ones go.
Also throw in the fact that there are extremely few good roys.
What i mean by a ganon that can't ledge tech, is that, if the ganon can't ledge tech, which i assume the OP hasn't mastered 100%, then Roy has an easy edgeguared on ganon.

Roy can combo, and by comboing, i mean stringing several attacks. His aerials are so weak that the opponent isn't going anywhere, often times setting them up for another aerial.

And keep in mind if ganon can tech case with dair, what makes you think roy can't tech chase with a sweetspotted fsmash?
 

OF 'til I OD

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Roy's F-smash may not be weak when sweetspotted but its nigh impossible to get that in there on any decent ganon that knows how to space, plus hate to break it to you, but the f-tilt can come out faster then the f-smash so if the ganon player has good reflexes he shouldn't have to worry about the move as much as you make it seem that its strong.
When getting comboed you can't just do moves. XD

So, you need not worry about getting f-tilted, as they'd be stunned from the combo. No idiot just spams fsmash hoping to hit, and if you took it that way, then you suck LOLZ.



Wrong again, most of those combos can be DI'd out of like you said yourself and literally your fair dair nair combos would not work because Roy, although having a good shffl game, just doesn't combo. Some of the best Roy players in the world agree that roy has literally like one or two set combo's and even those can be avoided and most of his little one or two hit combo's start with D-tilt.
Then they wouldn't be combos if they were DIed out of, idiot. I'm saying, in the instances that they didn't DI/DIed wrong. Saying Roy doesn't combo is like saying Fox doesn't combo (granted, Fox combos MORE than Roy, but Roy still can and does combo). You saying "Most of those combos can be DI'd out of", is completely an invalid argument, because then you could say that about every combo in the entire game. And I agree that Roy has only two sets of combos, when I listed those combos, note they all contained the few same moves.

Sure Reverse UpB can kill a jiggly in one hit but it still doesn't mean that Roy would be **** on jigglypuff. Roy just flat out isn't a good character and you shouldn't have trouble against him as ganon, you outrange him and none of his attacks should pose a threat.. Granted if your facing Neo your in trouble but yea. Oh and D-smash is one of his worst moves and kills at 70 percent and above 100 percent on DL64, so although strong, its too laggy to be used in anything but a situational desperation kill really.
I never said that having that move would make Roy > Jiggly. I said it because bluedeath said, and I quote "only thing strong of roy's is fsmash". That's just simply ******** (as is he). I also agree 100% Roy is not a good character (though neither is Ganon :dizzy:). I also agree you should not be having trouble against (most) Roys as Ganondorf, and of course you outrange and out prioritize Roy as Ganon. Anybody who knows ANYTHING about SSBM would know this.

Again, I never said dsmash was a good attack, I said it was STRONG. In fact, the only situation I've ever seen it used was in a desperation kill, which is it's purpose.

Thanks kevin..just said everything I was about to say.
Actually, you weren't going to say any of that, as you're an idiot.

Toecutter, stop trying to pick apart everything I say, you just make yourself look dumb.
LOL, you think I look dumb? You know nothing about Smash.


You are indeed making yourself look dumb.
Getting kind of repetitive. I provide facts and logic, and you provide nothing. Stop using this "insult" as a crutch.
 

Magus420

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Hold down.


But seriously, crouchcancel when on the ground and grabs are really effective if you can get them since you can CG the crap out of him pretty easily.

Speaking of which, I don't know why people often suggest FD with Ganon referring directly to CGing a particular character. Ganon's CG needs very little room to do, and DIing gets them almost no where around the stage. If you happen to grab right near/under a low platform and they are high enough damage to actually DI and land on it, they're pretty screwed anyway with Ganon's ability to **** people on platforms.

Anyway, Roy's most effective things are DD over-b and DD grabs to techchase on Ganon. If they know what they're doing I would actually say FD is one of the worst stages you can take Roy to. With a lot of room Roy can work around you rather well. If they camp effectively and you allow them the room to do so he can be pretty hard to fight.

For edgeguarding, the longer they charge their f-smash/neutral-b the more hitlag it has. The longer the hitlag the more time you have to hit towards the stage during it and smash DI to get the tech (be sure to hit the L/R before you get hit). When Roy/Marth charge neutral B as an edgeguard I can't help but think to myself "Thanks for the free walltech -> up-b on you" =P Also mix it up by upbing early to go over the edge and give em a great big hug.

Also, Roy's d-smash shieldstabs tall characters well and comes out very fast with good KOing power. It has its uses.
 

ChanseyMaster

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^Pretty insightful.

So if FD is out of the picture, where do you suggest I head to?

[ChanseyMaster]
 
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