-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
I'll update this when I'm bored.
Peach and general dthrow follow-ups
Peach and general dthrow follow-ups
PivotsAgainst Peach. The numbers are before the throw damage and are with the throw doing the full 7%. If it's stale and does 6% add 1 to the ranges, etc. This assumes perfect timing on both players actions.
D-Throw Advantage vs Peach (18 Lag; +2 Adv Differential):
0-8 .... +14
9-19 ... +15
20-30 .. +16
31-41 .. +17
42-52 .. +18
53-63 .. +19
64-74 .. +20
75-85 .. +21
86-96 .. +22
97-107 . +23
...
F-Air: No Turn
31-41 . Trade with N-Air
42-52 . Beats N-Air (0 Frames of Error)
53-63 . Beats N-Air (1 Frame of Error)
64+ ... True Combo
F-Air: Lagless Turnaround to Dash
53-63 . Trade with N-Air
64-74 . Beats N-Air (0 Frames of Error)
75-85 . Beats N-Air (1 Frame of Error)
86+ ... True Combo
B-Air: Behind DI
N/A ... Trade with N-Air
0-8 ... Beats N-Air (0 Frames of Error)
9-19 .. Beats N-Air (1 Frame of Error)
20+ ... True Combo
U-Air: No Turn at 0%
True Combo ..... 2 Frame Window for Error
Beats N-Air .... 4 Frame Window for Error
Trade w/ N-Air . 5 Frame Window for Error
U-Air: Lagless Turnaround to Dash at 0%
True Combo ..... 0 Frame Window for Error
Beats N-Air .... 2 Frame Window for Error
Trade w/ N-Air . 3 Frame Window for Error
On the 0% u-airs you might need to jump backwards into the u-air on no DI/slight behind DI.
You also have to consider reaction time, as well as the number of frames into their knockback that would allow their DI to be correctly identified for the situation. With Peach, there's 18 frames of knockback that occur before Ganon can act. To be able to act on the very 1st frame you can off the throw where DI sets up for separate actions to be done on frame 1 (such as DI behind needing you to dash behind into something instead), and if the DI were able to be identified starting from the 6th frame of KB, you'd need a choice-based reaction time of 12 frames or less in this situation, which is extremely fast (not to be confused with raw reaction time where 12 frames is simply 'above average').
You can figure out the d-throw advantage on any character with this...
D-Throw Advantage vs Mario (20 Lag; +0 Adv Differential):
0-8 .... +12
9-19 ... +13
20-30 .. +14
31-41 .. +15
42-52 .. +16
53-63 .. +17
64-74 .. +18
75-85 .. +19
86-96 .. +20
97-107 . +21
...
To find out the advantage ranges with the d-throw on any character you want, use the above list for Mario (20 lag; +0 Adv Differential), and add/subtract from the advantage using the list below.
D-Throw Lag (NTSC):
1.17 - Bowser ....................... 23 (-3)
1.14 - Donkey Kong .................. 23 (-3)
1.10 - Samus ........................ 23 (-3)
1.09 - Ganondorf .................... 22 (-2)
1.08 - Yoshi ........................ 22 (-2)
1.04 - Captain Falcon / Link ........ 21 (-1)
1.00 - Dr Mario / Luigi / Mario ..... 20 (+0)
0.94 - Ness ......................... 19 (+1)
0.90 - Peach / Sheik / Zelda ........ 18 (+2)
0.88 - Ice Climbers ................. 18 (+2)
0.87 - Marth ........................ 17 (+3)
0.85 - Mewtwo / Roy / Young Link .... 18 (+2)
0.80 - Falco / Pikachu .............. 16 (+4)
0.75 - Fox .......................... 15 (+5)
0.70 - Kirby ........................ 15 (+5)
0.60 - Jigglypuff / Mr Game & Watch . 12 (+8)
0.55 - Pichu ........................ 12 (+8)
More peach dthrow follow-ups plus techingI find it much easier if you release the control stick back to neutral following the dash that's before you're going to do the pivot, and then at a moderate speed press towards the direction you want to f-tilt in and press A right after the stick is like 3/4 of the way there. If you dash attack in the direction you were already going then you pressed A too early, dash attack in the direction you wanted to f-tilt in you pressed it too late, and if you f-smash you moved the stick too quickly/didn't let it go to neutral before pivoting.
Releasing to neutral before doing the pivot actually makes it impossible to f-smash as long as there's a frame read between neutral and the dash threshold (even if you press A when it's fully to the side), which is pretty easy to do unless you press it rather quickly. The game registers a f-smash much easier if you instead go from the area of the control stick you used for dashing in the original direction straight into the pivot.
You could also flick and release the opposite direction to pivot into a neutral stance out of the dash and then go to do the f-tilt (or whatever else you want really), but the extra time it takes to move the stick back again to do the tilt makes it slow and not really useful this way imo.
I do the flick release to do pivot jabs though since obviously there's no delay for repositioning the stick after the pivot since it's already at neutral from doing the flick to turn around. I especially like doing this into gentlemans with Falcon, lol. Since I can easily get these pretty much every time and as an added bonus I sometimes get f-tilts this way anyway, I usually do this instead of actively trying to pivot f-tilt as I don't like dashattacking into people if my timing was slightly off.
Teching options vs Peach dsmashU-air combos at 0%. If they DI behind then dash turn and u-air behind you. That still combos at 0%. If you space yourself you can usually hit them again depending on their DI. If they were trying to n-air out of the throw you get to hit them again.
You can also d-throw u-smash to KO around 60-65ish on medium and lower ceiling stages if they don't DI (turn around and do it) or DI away (u-smash in place). Stops working around 70 or so. A little after then you can start d-throw f-airing. You can hit her with the f-air no matter how they DI.
EDIT: Another thing you can do for the get up to d-smash edgeguard is you can tech it if you hold down & towards + down on the c-stick and time a tech just before it hits you. Works great for up/side/down-b lag especially.
Here's an example from an old match of mine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s54BH7O7UY#t=1m45s
Walljump teching Peach's d-smash gets you hit by the last hit though when they time it to hit you with the 1st hit. Sheik's d-smash does it too.
Uthrow vs dthrowYou're only invincible for 14, so it ends before the last hit. If you get hit by frame 5 of her d-smash and you also b-air frame perfectly out of the walljump the b-air will hit first. If you get hit by frame 6 and you time the b-air frame perfectly, or if you get hit by frame 5 and b-air 1 frame late they trade. Other than that the last hit of her d-smash will hit you first if you walljump tech the 1st hit. Why not just normal wall tech which is invincible for 19 and then up-b her? Does a bit more damage as well.
CC jab and falcon nairI don't use u-throw much in general unless like you said there's a platform that they'd be landing on if they DI away, because if there isn't one you can't do much of anything after it when they DI that way, while d-throw generally always gets you something. Falcon comes to mind though since you can't reliably get much off d-throw on him anyway, and with u-throw you'd get a good hit or somewhat easy platform followup.
For the d-throw f-air or the u-air at 0% on Peach when they DI behind make sure you smash behind to do the turn/dash because you usually need the non-laggy turnaround to be able to hit them in time (it's needed for the u-air or you can be n-aired). You also need to jump immediately as the dash starts and get the f-air out as you leave the ground. If you do it right it only takes 2 frames longer than a regular f-air, and should look almost like you go directly from facing one direction to jumping and f-airing behind you.
You can also d-throw f-air Marth and some others that aren't either too heavy or fall too fast when they DI behind you as well.
Usmash and usmash KO'sIt's not new, but it is really useful. If you hold the stick in the proper spot down and behind you can be both CCing and jabbing at the same time without needing to move the stick. I use CC jab against CF's n-airs as well. You can try to jab him out of the n-air, and even if you whiff the 1st jab or do it too late just mash A when you get hit while holding that down & behind position and you'll jab him inbetween the 1st and 2nd hits of his n-air. Works the same way with other attacks that aren't too powerful and if you mess up hitting them out of the attack directly then mash A and you get them anyway.
Teching, up-b, recovery vs marthHitting them up and off the top at the higher ranges isn't the only way to kill them with the u-smash after a stomp. The timing is more difficult, but you can also charge into the crotch hit at lower percents to kill or set up an edgeguard off the side. Stomp to u-smash KO also works on a few other characters, but the ranges are smaller and are stage dependant.
All damages are before the d-air and with it doing the full 22%. If it's stale the percents listed will be lower by however much less damage the stomp does. The numbers are also when the stomp hits just before landing and the u-smash is started immediately out of the l-cancel lag. If it hits high and/or the u-smash is started late the numbers needed to kill would be higher obviously. Doesn't work if they DI the stomp horizontally.
Top Leg Hit (90°)
Largest hitbox on the outer part of his leg. Farthest vertical and horizontal reach. Sends straight up. Reaches through all lower platforms so only the top platforms can mess it up.
Middle Thigh Hit (80°)
Smallest hitbox along his thigh. In the middle vertically and farthest towards his back horizontally. Sends mostly up but slightly away (same angle as Fox's u-smash). Same power as the top hit but if they DI it inwards for a crotch hit or top hit they'll go almost straight up and die a bit sooner.
Bottom Crotch Hit (45°)
2nd largest hitbox centered in the area in front of his junk. Lowest vertically and in the middle horizontally. Sends diagonally up and away with about the same power as Marth's tipped f-smash. If they DI this outwards for DI on the other hits or trying to techroll away they're pretty much dead. The window to get CF with this hit between them hitting the ground and being able to tech while being below the thigh hitbox is pretty small compared to Fox/Falco.
Code:[SIZE=6][U][B][COLOR=#ff2820]Falco[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE] [COLOR="Gray"]YS [Lands on Plat-1 7+(inside)/12+(outside); Plat-2 33+] PS [Lands on Plat-1 9+] BF [Lands on Plat-1 12+; Plat-2 46+] FoD [Lands on Plat-1 0+/13+(varies); Plat-2 34+] DL [Lands on Plat-1 17+; Plat-2 43+][/COLOR] [SIZE=3][U][B][COLOR=#775ae4]Top Leg Hit (90°)[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE] [B][COLOR=#ff2820]Combo: 19-63[/COLOR][/B] [SIZE=2][U][B][COLOR=#775ae4]KO Ranges[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE][SIZE="1"][COLOR="Gray"] (DI Up&Towards / DI Towards or Away)[/COLOR][/SIZE] [color="#e03830"] 33/35 - 63 (PS Rock-Top)[/COLOR] [color="#d0da10"] 37/40 - 63 (YS Plat-2) 41/43 - 63 (YS Plat-1)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"] 41/43 - 63 (BF Plat-2)[/COLOR] [color="#e03830"] 43/44 - 63 (PS Plat-1)[/COLOR] [color="#88a0ff"] 43/45 - 63 (FoD Plat-2)[/COLOR] [color="#d0da10"]* 45/47 - 63 (YS Base)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"] 45/47 - 63 (BF Plat-1)[/COLOR] [color="#e03830"]* 47/48 - 63 (PS Base)[/COLOR] [color="#c05ae4"]* 47/49 - 63 (FD Base)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"]* 49/51 - 63 (BF Base)[/COLOR] [color="#60e030"] 49/51 - 63 (DL Plat-2)[/COLOR] [color="#88a0ff"]* 50/51 - 63 (FoD Base)[/COLOR] [color="#60e030"] 51/53 - 63 (DL Plat-1) * 54/56 - 63 (DL Base)[/COLOR] [SIZE=3][U][B][COLOR=#775ae4]Bottom Crotch Hit (45°)[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE] [B][COLOR=#ff2820]Combo: 13-51[/COLOR][/B] [SIZE=2][U][B][COLOR=#775ae4]KO Ranges[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE][SIZE="1"][COLOR="Gray"] (DI Away / DI Towards / DI Up&Towards)[/COLOR][/SIZE] [color="#d0da10"] 13(-P)/25(GP)/35(-P) - 51 (YS 1/4 Length)[/COLOR] [color="#88a0ff"] 13(--)/25(G-)/36(G-) - 51 (FoD 1/4 Length)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"] 13(GP)/26(GP)/39(GP) - 51 (BF 1/4 Length)[/COLOR] [color="#c05ae4"] 13(--)/27(G-)/38(G-) - 51 (FD 1/4 Length)[/COLOR] [color="#60e030"] 13(--)/28(GP)/39(GP) - 51 (DL 1/4 Length)[/COLOR] [color="#e03830"] 13(GP)/29(GP)/42(-P) - 51 (PS 1/4 Length)[/COLOR] [color="#d0da10"]* 13(G-)/31(G-)/41(-P) - 51 (YS Center)[/COLOR] [color="#88a0ff"]* 13(G-)/32(G-)/45(-P) - 51 (FoD Center)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"]* 15(G-)/33(G-)/47(-P) - 51 (BF Center)[/COLOR] [color="#60e030"]* 18(G-)/34(G-)/51(GP) - 51 (DL Center)[/COLOR] [color="#c05ae4"]* 20(G-)/37(G-)/49(G-) - 51 (FD Center)[/COLOR] [color="#e03830"]* 21(G-)/37(G-)/50(--) - 51 (PS Center)[/COLOR] [B][SIZE="2"]G[/SIZE][/B][SIZE="1"][COLOR="Gray"]:Edgehogged starting from this percent. If blank they either die from the blastzone or can't reach the edge.[/COLOR][/SIZE] [B][SIZE="2"]P[/SIZE][/B][SIZE="1"][COLOR="Gray"]:Stomp at this percent will put them above a platform on that part of the stage and can't be done from the floor.[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=6][U][B][COLOR=#ff2820]Fox[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE] [COLOR="Gray"]YS [Lands on Plat-1 15+(inside)/21+(outside); Plat-2 37+] PS [Lands on Plat-1 18+] BF [Lands on Plat-1 21+; Plat-2 46+] FoD [Lands on Plat-1 0+/21+(varies); Plat-2 38+] DL [Lands on Plat-1 25+; Plat-2 44+][/COLOR] [SIZE=3][U][B][COLOR=#775ae4]Top Leg Hit (90°)[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE] [B][COLOR=#ff2820]Combo: 20-55[/COLOR][/B] [SIZE=2][U][B][COLOR=#775ae4]KO Ranges[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE][SIZE="1"][COLOR="Gray"] (DI Up&Towards / DI Towards or Away)[/COLOR][/SIZE] [color="#e03830"] 30/33 - 55 (PS Rock-Top)[/COLOR] [color="#d0da10"] 33/35 - 55 (YS Plat-2) 37/38 - 55 (YS Plat-1)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"] 37/39 - 55 (BF Plat-2)[/COLOR] [color="#e03830"] 38/40 - 55 (PS Plat-1)[/COLOR] [color="#88a0ff"] 38/40 - 55 (FoD Plat-2)[/COLOR] [color="#d0da10"]* 40/42 - 55 (YS Base)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"] 40/42 - 55 (BF Plat-1)[/COLOR] [color="#e03830"]* 41/43 - 55 (PS Base)[/COLOR] [color="#c05ae4"]* 42/44 - 55 (FD Base)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"]* 44/45 - 55 (BF Base)[/COLOR] [color="#88a0ff"]* 44/45 - 55 (FoD Base)[/COLOR] [color="#60e030"] 44/45 - 55 (DL Plat-2) 45/47 - 55 (DL Plat-1) * 48/50 - 55 (DL Base)[/COLOR] [SIZE=3][U][B][COLOR=#775ae4]Bottom Crotch Hit (45°)[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE] [B][COLOR=#ff2820]Combo: 14-43[/COLOR][/B] [SIZE=2][U][B][COLOR=#775ae4]KO Ranges[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE][SIZE="1"][COLOR="Gray"] (DI Away / DI Towards / DI Up&Towards)[/COLOR][/SIZE] [color="#d0da10"] 14(--)/25(-P)/32(-P) - 43 (YS 1/4 Length)[/COLOR] [color="#88a0ff"] 14(G-)/29(--)/36(--) - 43 (FoD 1/4 Length)[/COLOR] [color="#d0da10"]* 18(G-)/30(--)/38(-P) - 43 (YS Center)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"] 14(G-)/30(GP)/41(-P) - 43 (BF 1/4 Length)[/COLOR] [color="#c05ae4"] 14(G-)/30(G-)/43(--) - 43 (FD 1/4 Length)[/COLOR] [color="#60e030"] 14(G-)/32(GP)/--(--) - 43 (DL 1/4 Length)[/COLOR] [color="#e03830"] 18(GP)/33(-P)/41(-P) - 43 (PS 1/4 Length)[/COLOR] [color="#88a0ff"]* 20(G-)/35(--)/43(-P) - 43 (FoD Center)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"]* 21(G-)/36(G-)/--(--) - 43 (BF Center)[/COLOR] [color="#60e030"]* 22(G-)/39(G-)/--(--) - 43 (DL Center)[/COLOR] [color="#c05ae4"]* 23(G-)/39(G-)/--(--) - 43 (FD Center)[/COLOR] [color="#e03830"]* 24(G-)/40(--)/--(--) - 43 (PS Center)[/COLOR] [B][SIZE="2"]G[/SIZE][/B][SIZE="1"][COLOR="Gray"]:Edgehogged starting from this percent. If blank they either die from the blastzone or can't reach the edge.[/COLOR][/SIZE] [B][SIZE="2"]P[/SIZE][/B][SIZE="1"][COLOR="Gray"]:Stomp at this percent will put them above a platform on that part of the stage and can't be done from the floor.[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=6][U][B][COLOR=#ff2820]Captain Falcon[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE] [COLOR="Gray"]YS [Lands on Plat-1 0+(inside)/7+(outside); Plat-2 29+] PS [Lands on Plat-1 3+] BF [Lands on Plat-1 7+; Plat-2 43+] FoD [Lands on Plat-1 0+/7+(varies); Plat-2 30+] DL [Lands on Plat-1 12+; Plat-2 40+][/COLOR] [SIZE=3][U][B][COLOR=#775ae4]Top Leg Hit (90°)[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE] [B][COLOR=#ff2820]Combo: 15-66[/COLOR][/B] [SIZE=2][U][B][COLOR=#775ae4]KO Ranges[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE][SIZE="1"][COLOR="Gray"] (DI Up&Towards / DI Towards or Away)[/COLOR][/SIZE] [color="#e03830"] 35/37 - 66 (PS Rock-Top)[/COLOR] [color="#d0da10"] 40/42 - 66 (YS Plat-2) 44/47 - 66 (YS Plat-1)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"] 45/47 - 66 (BF Plat-2)[/COLOR] [color="#e03830"] 47/49 - 66 (PS Plat-1)[/COLOR] [color="#88a0ff"] 47/49 - 66 (FoD Plat-2)[/COLOR] [color="#d0da10"]* 49/52 - 66 (YS Base)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"] 50/52 - 66 (BF Plat-1)[/COLOR] [color="#e03830"]* 51/53 - 66 (PS Base)[/COLOR] [color="#c05ae4"]* 52/55 - 66 (FD Base)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"]* 54/56 - 66 (BF Base)[/COLOR] [color="#60e030"] 54/56 - 66 (DL Plat-2)[/COLOR] [color="#88a0ff"]* 55/57 - 66 (FoD Base)[/COLOR] [color="#60e030"] 57/59 - 66 (DL Plat-1) * 61/64 - 66 (DL Base)[/COLOR] [SIZE=3][U][B][COLOR=#775ae4]Bottom Crotch Hit (45°)[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE] [B][COLOR=#ff2820]Combo: 8-46[/COLOR][/B] [SIZE=2][U][B][COLOR=#775ae4]KO Ranges[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE][SIZE="1"][COLOR="Gray"] (DI Away / DI Towards / DI Up&Towards)[/COLOR][/SIZE] [color="#d0da10"] 18(GP)/33(-P)/41(-P) - 46 (YS 1/4 Length)[/COLOR] [color="#88a0ff"] 14(G-)/39(-P)/--(--) - 46 (FoD 1/4 Length)[/COLOR] [color="#d0da10"]* 22(G-)/39(-P)/--(--) - 46 (YS Center)[/COLOR] [color="#e03830"] 22(GP)/43(-P)/--(--) - 46 (PS 1/4 Length)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"] 18(GP)/43(-P)/--(--) - 46 (BF 1/4 Length)[/COLOR] [color="#c05ae4"] 18(G-)/46(--)/--(--) - 46 (FD 1/4 Length)[/COLOR] [color="#60e030"] 19(GP)/--(--)/--(--) - 46 (DL 1/4 Length)[/COLOR] [color="#88a0ff"]* 23(G-)/46(-P)/--(--) - 46 (FoD Center)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"]* 24(G-)/--(--)/--(--) - 46 (BF Center)[/COLOR] [color="#60e030"]* 26(G-)/--(--)/--(--) - 46 (DL Center)[/COLOR] [color="#c05ae4"]* 28(G-)/--(--)/--(--) - 46 (FD Center)[/COLOR] [color="#e03830"]* 28(G-)/--(--)/--(--) - 46 (PS Center)[/COLOR] [B][SIZE="2"]G[/SIZE][/B][SIZE="1"][COLOR="Gray"]:Edgehogged starting from this percent. If blank they either die from the blastzone or can't reach the edge.[/COLOR][/SIZE] [B][SIZE="2"]P[/SIZE][/B][SIZE="1"][COLOR="Gray"]:Stomp at this percent will put them above a platform on that part of the stage and can't be done from the floor.[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=6][U][B][COLOR=#ff2820]Roy[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE] [COLOR="Gray"]YS [Lands on Plat-1 0+(inside)/2+(outside); Plat-2 22+] PS [Lands on Plat-1 0+] BF [Lands on Plat-1 3+; Plat-2 33+] FoD [Lands on Plat-1 0+/3+(varies); Plat-2 23+] DL [Lands on Plat-1 7+; Plat-2 31+][/COLOR] [SIZE=3][U][B][COLOR=#775ae4]Top Leg Hit (90°)[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE] [B][COLOR=#ff2820]Combo: 6-40[/COLOR][/B] [SIZE=2][U][B][COLOR=#775ae4]KO Ranges[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE][SIZE="1"][COLOR="Gray"] (DI Up&Towards / DI Towards or Away)[/COLOR][/SIZE] [color="#e03830"] 21/23 - 40 (PS Rock-Top)[/COLOR] [color="#d0da10"] 25/27 - 40 (YS Plat-2) 29/30 - 40 (YS Plat-1)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"] 30/31 - 40 (BF Plat-2)[/COLOR] [color="#e03830"] 31/33 - 40 (PS Plat-1)[/COLOR] [color="#88a0ff"] 31/33 - 40 (FoD Plat-2)[/COLOR] [color="#d0da10"]* 33/34 - 40 (YS Base)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"] 33/36 - 40 (BF Plat-1)[/COLOR] [color="#e03830"]* 34/36 - 40 (PS Base)[/COLOR] [color="#c05ae4"]* 35/38 - 40 (FD Base)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"]* 38/40 - 40 (BF Base)[/COLOR] [color="#60e030"] 38/40 - 40 (DL Plat-2)[/COLOR] [color="#88a0ff"]* 39/40 - 40 (FoD Base)[/COLOR] [color="#60e030"] 40/-- - 40 (DL Plat-1) * --/-- - 40 (DL Base)[/COLOR] [SIZE=3][U][B][COLOR=#775ae4]Bottom Crotch Hit (45°)[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE] [B][COLOR=#ff2820]Combo: 0-24[/COLOR][/B] [SIZE=6][U][B][COLOR=#ff2820]Donkey Kong[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE] [COLOR="Gray"]YS [Lands on Plat-1 8+(inside)/13+(outside); Plat-2 32+] PS [Lands on Plat-1 10+] BF [Lands on Plat-1 13+; Plat-2 43+] FoD [Lands on Plat-1 0+/13+(varies); Plat-2 33+] DL [Lands on Plat-1 17+; Plat-2 41+][/COLOR] [SIZE=3][U][B][COLOR=#775ae4]Top Leg Hit (90°)[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE] [B][COLOR=#ff2820]Combo: 7-49[/COLOR][/B] [SIZE=2][U][B][COLOR=#775ae4]KO Ranges[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE][SIZE="1"][COLOR="Gray"] (DI Up&Towards / DI Towards or Away)[/COLOR][/SIZE] [color="#e03830"] 27/29 - 49 (PS Rock-Top)[/COLOR] [color="#d0da10"] 33/35 - 49 (YS Plat-2) 38/40 - 49 (YS Plat-1)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"] 38/40 - 49 (BF Plat-2)[/COLOR] [color="#e03830"] 40/41 - 49 (PS Plat-1)[/COLOR] [color="#88a0ff"] 41/43 - 49 (FoD Plat-2)[/COLOR] [color="#d0da10"]* 42/44 - 49 (YS Base)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"] 44/45 - 49 (BF Plat-1)[/COLOR] [color="#e03830"]* 44/47 - 49 (PS Base)[/COLOR] [color="#c05ae4"]* 46/49 - 49 (FD Base)[/COLOR] [color="#60e030"] 48/-- - 49 (DL Plat-2)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"]* 49/-- - 49 (BF Base)[/COLOR] [color="#88a0ff"]* 49/-- - 49 (FoD Base)[/COLOR] [color="#60e030"] --/-- - 49 (DL Plat-1) * --/-- - 49 (DL Base)[/COLOR] [SIZE=6][U][B][COLOR=#ff2820]Sheik[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE] [COLOR="Gray"]YS [Lands on Plat-1 1+(inside)/6+(outside); Plat-2 25+] PS [Lands on Plat-1 3+] BF [Lands on Plat-1 7+; Plat-2 34+] FoD [Lands on Plat-1 0+/7+(varies); Plat-2 25+] DL [Lands on Plat-1 11+; Plat-2 32+][/COLOR] [SIZE=3][U][B][COLOR=#775ae4]Top Leg Hit (90°)[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE] [B][COLOR=#ff2820]Combo: 7-36[/COLOR][/B] [SIZE=2][U][B][COLOR=#775ae4]KO Ranges[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE][SIZE="1"][COLOR="Gray"] (DI Up&Towards / DI Towards or Away)[/COLOR][/SIZE] [color="#e03830"] 19/22 - 36 (PS Rock-Top)[/COLOR] [color="#d0da10"] 24/25 - 36 (YS Plat-2) 27/30 - 36 (YS Plat-1)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"] 27/30 - 36 (BF Plat-2)[/COLOR] [color="#e03830"] 30/31 - 36 (PS Plat-1)[/COLOR] [color="#88a0ff"] 30/32 - 36 (FoD Plat-2)[/COLOR] [color="#d0da10"]* 31/34 - 36 (YS Base)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"] 32/34 - 36 (BF Plat-1)[/COLOR] [color="#e03830"]* 33/35 - 36 (PS Base)[/COLOR] [color="#c05ae4"]* 34/36 - 36 (FD Base)[/COLOR] [COLOR="Silver"]* 36/-- - 36 (BF Base)[/COLOR] [color="#88a0ff"]* 36/-- - 36 (FoD Base)[/COLOR] [color="#60e030"] 36/-- - 36 (DL Plat-2) --/-- - 36 (DL Plat-1) * --/-- - 36 (DL Base)[/COLOR]
Chaingrabbing sheikHolding L/R is no different from just pushing it. It has the same effect. Also, while it works just fine for most characters, hugging the wall isn't always enough for Ganon if you're facing forward. His up-b animation pushes you away from the wall slightly during parts of it, which often results in smash DI being required to tech some attacks at most damages (like Marth's d-tilt). If you can get close enough to the stage so that you can reverse the up-b you'll not only put the part of you that goes above stage level further out and harder to hit, but you also stay closer to the wall and can edgetech a little easier.
Sweetspotting with your double jump is ALWAYS a priority whenever possible though. As long as you place the jump right Marth will only be able to hit you with a d-air at the edge, which you'll usually be able to see coming as it requires different spacing from the usual d-tilt/f-smash edgeguard, so either space the DJ horizontally to avoid it or drop a bit lower and then DJ to u/f-air or up-b into them.
You can ALWAYS get a f-smash or u-smash to finish it. Angle the f-smashes upward since they do more damage and knockback, and often KO on some stages, as will a side hit on the u-smash most of the time.
Ledgehop uair regrab and jump movementDon't u-air Sheik. It's such a waste. F-air will work in the same situations on Sheik at that range anyway. F-smash actually KOs on roughly FD or lower ceilings at that % even if they DI the hit away, and u-smash KOs with the side hit or at least does good damage with the vertical hit. The u-smash may even hit twice on occasion for a **** load of damage. On high ceiling stages it may be a good idea to just f/b-air once they DI the throw outward if reasonably close to the edge when approaching the escape % of the CG for the best chance at setting up a KO out of it.
Perfect wavelandsYou can be invincible throughout the entire attack portion of it, but you won't be able to regrab the ledge before your invincibility runs out and will be vulnerable for at least 6 frames. That would be pretty beast if it were possible though.
I generally do the ledge regrab u-airs and ledge hop onto the stage u-airs differently from each other.
To regrab I usually do a very quick 1/4 circle away to up on the control and press A right as it reaches the up position. Since I generally only do this instead of landing on the stage with it for the extra range, doing it this way makes you doublejump away from the ledge slightly giving it significantly more range than most methods. To get the absolute max range on it I'll also sometimes hit away, jump with Y using my index finger, c-stick the u-air, then start holding back towards the edge with the control stick, which is kind of like how I do u-airs onto the stage.
To land on the stage I do it similarly to what Frozenserpent said. I do a quick 1/4 circle from down to towards the stage. I only tilt down though before moving left/right to prevent fastfalling, then press Y once the analog gets to left/right, then press up on the c-stick right after that, and then l-cancel. I double jump stall using my thumb on the X button to jump, then when I want to ledgehop an u-air I move my thumb underneath the c-stick and the inside of the first digit on my index finger ontop of the Y button. Though the transition might be awkward for most people, it's 2nd nature to me from using Peach and floatcancel u-air comboing and such. I find this way to be SO easy if you can switch to it without much thought.
I never really liked using the c-stick to let go of the edge personally though. Didn't like the idea of falling with a b-air if I were to hit it a little off.
Something most people don't realize is that what's most important is what direction you are holding when the jump is initiated, and much less so what you hold afterwards. The direction you hold on the analog the instant you begin to move from the jump determines your main jump trajectory, and then from there you can move around slightly using air control on the analog. For example, you can let go of the edge, jump while holding towards the stage, immediately let go of the analog completely the moment the jump starts, and the jump trajectory will still carry you well over the edge anyway. The same principle applies to ground jumps, only it takes the direction right as you leave the ground after the startup lag not when you press the jump button (since an air jump happens immediately and ground jumps do not).
Oos options vs FalcoWhat I first did to get horizontal wavelands down was start off by double jumping then fastfalling into them (FFing generally makes it easier). I would hit X/Y twice quickly then do a 1/4 circle forward or back starting from down to do a fastfall then have it in position by the time I reach the ground. I've found it has a certain flow to it that sticks with you. The double jumping part is just to make it a bit easier to get the perfect WL down since there's a bigger window on it since you're curled up in a ball which allows you to fall further into the ground without causing you to land. I do it a lot in my really old vids. It's a crutch tho really, since DJing is not really a good idea as it's not necessary and could screw you over if you get knocked low off the stage and can't down-b.
Once I got perfect DJ WLing down to be 2nd nature, I applied the same 1/4 circle fastfall concept just without the DJ.
That's just me though. It may not work for everyone.
It's also easier to WL when jumping backwards due to the flip animation compared to the forward upright position while jumping. Maybe that's why you have an easier time doing it backwards? Both are possible to do it fully horizontal, just the forward jump needs to be timed just right.
For platform dashing, a full jump (lower) and full jump to DJ (top) puts you at the perfect height to horizontal platform dash on DL64 with ease. It doesn't work nearly as well if you do the backflip jump by jumping backwards so keep that in mind. On Pokemon Stadium, if you jump to immediate DJ (not the backflip DJ) it's also the perfect height for an easy horizontal platform dash. I'm not aware of any 'easy button' tricks for horizontal ones on other platform heights tho. If you do happen to spin DJ before going to do it it will be easier however.
Advice on shieldgrabbing falcoFor the grabs and stuck shielding part, shieldgrab his shine if he stays in front, or d-air from shield if he crosses you up to land behind you. If you go for the d-air as they land behind you but before the shine the shine will often whiff and they'll be hit by the d-air depending on the positioning and how you shielded/shield ASDI'd the aerial. Since there's a larger amount of time between when they hit your shield and when they land than from the front you'll often have enough time to get off the ground and far enough out of the shine's range. If they double shine, you gotta hold away in your shield before the shine and going for the grab.
Roy, CC'ing, and FDPersonally I feel that the off-chance they happen to grab after the first shine and I do get caught in one of Falco's notoriously high damaging and lethal grab setups is just slightly outweighed by getting a safe shot at a free techchase if you actually learn the timing which takes maybe 5 minutes to get down. Besides, if they become shine grab-happy you can just mix in rolls after or sidesteps before the shine to dodge both the shine and grab if they really make it obvious which they shouldn't be doing. Then again, you shouldn't be making it obvious when you are going to be going for the shieldgrabs either.
CC JabHold down.
But seriously, crouchcancel when on the ground and grabs are really effective if you can get them since you can CG the crap out of him pretty easily.
Speaking of which, I don't know why people often suggest FD with Ganon referring directly to CGing a particular character. Ganon's CG needs very little room to do, and DIing gets them almost no where around the stage. If you happen to grab right near/under a low platform and they are high enough damage to actually DI and land on it, they're pretty screwed anyway with Ganon's ability to **** people on platforms.
Anyway, Roy's most effective things are DD over-b and DD grabs to techchase on Ganon. If they know what they're doing I would actually say FD is one of the worst stages you can take Roy to. With a lot of room Roy can work around you rather well. If they camp effectively and you allow them the room to do so he can be pretty hard to fight.
For edgeguarding, the longer they charge their f-smash/neutral-b the more hitlag it has. The longer the hitlag the more time you have to hit towards the stage during it and smash DI to get the tech (be sure to hit the L/R before you get hit). When Roy/Marth charge neutral B as an edgeguard I can't help but think to myself "Thanks for the free walltech -> up-b on you" =P Also mix it up by upbing early to go over the edge and give em a great big hug.
Also, Roy's d-smash shieldstabs tall characters well and comes out very fast with good KOing power. It has its uses.
If your controller allows you can just hold diagonally down and away right in the notch of the analog and just keep pressing A. It lets you crouch and jab without having to move the analog at all since there's a small spot on that diagonal that counts as a neutral direction and makes you jab. Since it's a small area though not all controllers are calibrated so that spot is located in the diagonal notch making it quite a bit more difficult to find at will. If your controller turn around f-tilts or d-tilts you have to move it a tiny bit to get the spot.
If you're at a decent amount of damage you'll want to hold down&towards when not actually jabbing and just crouching in case like CF throws out a knee or something and don't shield in time so you don't DI it badly. Just roll to the diagonal afterwards and then do the jab in that case.
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