Ganon and the Tilt-stick

[Heartstring]

Lol, it isn't a player, it's a minigame and it's amazing for practicing DI and teching.

Here it is: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237117

oh lol, i am so taking this to the next smashfest.

but yeah, ganon is probably as good with tilt stick as smash stick. i reckon personal preference is in order here, less smashy people will use tilt, more smashy will use smash stick. guess it depends on how much you liek iasa u-smash and stutter f-smash

 

[Max113]

oh lol, i am so taking this to the next smashfest.

FFAs of this are too good. :O

 

[Heartstring]

oh yeah, one other thing to note that might have been overlooked and is probably the biggest thing for ganon.
you can walkoff dair with the a-stick and not fast fall, this ofcourse means gonig for the spike and still staying relatively safe. but it also means that fastfalling in general does not happen do DI requires you to press down on the control stick and do the aerial with c-stick. but that cant really be much of a problem can it?

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

Non-fastfall dairs are already included in the Tilt Stick Pros and Cons, but honestly you guys have been more help with the tilt stick than I could have hoped for.

 

[Heartstring]

Non-fastfall dairs are already included in the Tilt Stick Pros and Cons, but honestly you guys have been more help with the tilt stick than I could have hoped for.

ya welcome, i dunno if i already said, i cba to scroll up, but theres a large section aobut tilt stick on the ike boards new guide

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

Thank you for letting me know, that would really help me with info on the Tilt Stick

 

[Heartstring]

Thank you for letting me know, that would really help me with info on the Tilt Stick

you're welcome, im trying to get into ganon anyawy, hes sorta like a fun main, also i promise to all my uk brawlers buddies that if they pay for the tournament entry fee ill use onyl ganon XD

 

[Nysyarc]

[collapse=Smash Stick vs Tilt Stick]

Control Schemes
Smash Stick vs Tilt Stick​

This section of the guide will compare the pros and cons of both the Smash Stick and Tilt Stick as they apply to Ike. No bias is given towards either side, so you can read both arguments along with some helpful tips for each and make your own decision on which C-stick control you think would work best for you!

The Smash Stick

This is the default setting for your controller scheme, the Smash Stick. In the ‘Controls’ menu of your game under GameCube Controller, the C-stick should be set to ‘Smash’. There are a few definite advantages to having the Smash Stick as your all-purpose c-stick scheme, and I will now outline them in detail. I will also include some tips and work-around for various issues with the Smash Stick.

Quick Pros & Cons

Pros

• Possible to SDI with the c-stick
• Vertical momentum canceling is somewhat easier
• No Tilt Stick jump glitch

Cons

• Using c-stick to Dair fast-falls
• Cannot use Nair with the c-stick
• Harder to perform Utilt with tap-jump on

Smash Directional Influence (SDI)

Using the Smash Stick allows you to perform SDI with your C-stick and your control stick simultaneously. It is always possible to mash the control stick in any direction at the moment you are hit by an attack, and Ike will shift in that direction. With the Smash Stick, it is possible to do this with the C-stick as well, but it is not possible with the Tilt Stick setting.

To get the most benefit from this, try and predict when you are about to be hit by an attack, or prepare yourself for an attack that will inevitably hit you. At the instant the attack connects with you, alternately tap the control stick and C-stick in the direction you want to shift, and you will do so much more easily than with only using the control stick. Just be sure to use the control stick for standard Directional Influence by holding it in the direction you want to bend your trajectory once you are sent flying.

Using the Smash Stick for SDI helps a lot in escaping from combos and attack strings at low percents, since you can very quickly shift away from your opponent and mess up their timing/spacing. You have to be quick with your fingers and have an ability to understand when certain attack will hit and when you are in a vulnerable position in order to make the most of this advantage.

Vertical Momentum Canceling

Momentum canceling when you are sent vertically (towards the top blast zone) is arguably a bit easier with the Smash Stick than the Tilt Stick. Inputting a Dair with the Smash Stick by tapping it down will automatically cause you to fast-fall, quickly negating your vertical momentum. Since you only need to use the C-stick to initiate the fast-fall, you are free to use the control stick for standard DI and to control Ike in the air while momentum canceling.

For example, say you are hit by Fox’s Uair at middling percent, some distance above the stage. Using your Smash Stick and control stick, you can first SDI down at an angle to increase the distance between you and the top blast zone. Then, you will mash the control stick to one side, to bend your trajectory while simultaneously hitting down on the C-stick to input the Dair and fast-fall. All of these things together make survival quite a bit easier for users of the Smash Stick.

Walk-Off Down Aerials

A key thing to remember here is that holding the control stick down while inputting a Dair with the C-stick cancels out the fast-fall. So, if you want to use a Dair with the C-stick and not fast-fall, you need to be holding down on the control stick. This method is risky but workable and not too hard once you have the hang of it.

Stand near the right edge of the stage (it works on either side but this is just for reference) and tilt your control stick to the right and slightly down. As you walk over the edge, rotate your control stick down and use the C-stick to input the Dair. If performed correctly with the proper timing, you should Dair immediately after walking off and not fast-fall, allowing you to recover using your double jump and Aether.

If you do not get it right the first time or even the first several times, keep practicing, because it is possible. Knowing that holding down on the control stick cancels the fast-fall of a C-stick Dair is good for other things as well. You shouldn’t hold down on the control stick while using a C-stick Dair to momentum cancel for example, because you won’t get the fast-fall.

The Tilt Stick

In order to use the Tilt Stick, go to the ‘Controls’ menu under GameCube Controller and set your C-stick control to ‘Attack’. The Tilt stick is very different to the Smash Stick, and offers a completely new set of benefits and downsides. Which control scheme you choose to use is up to you, but this comparison will give you a good idea of what you can get out of each.

Quick Pros & Cons

Pros

• Possible to Nair using the c-stick
• Using the c-stick to Dair does not fast-fall
• Easy to perform Utilt with tap-jump on

Cons

• Cannot SDI with the c-stick
• Vertical momentum canceling is somewhat harder
• The Tilt Stick jump glitch

C-Stick Neutral Aerial

This is definitely the most convincing argument in favor of the Tilt Stick. By tapping the C-stick in a diagonal direction (it can be any diagonal), you will perform a Jab when standing on the ground, or an Nair if you are airborne at the time. What is the significance of this? Total control of aerial movement while using an Nair.

Normally, to input an Nair requires that you reset your control stick to a neutral position and tap A, thus stopping your horizontal movement. If you input the Nair with the C-stick however, you can continue to move and accelerate using the control stick. It takes some practice to consistently perform Nairs without accidentally inputting a different aerial, but once you have it down, spacing becomes much easier. You can also have more control over walk-off Nairs from platforms.

Some useful methods of employing this that you can try out are short-hopping with the control stick and immediately inputting the Nair with the C-stick, similar to how you would perform an auto-canceled Bair. You can jump with your standard jump button, wait until the apex of your short-hop and then input an Nair while retreating and initiating a fast-fall. This will end Nair’s hitbox in front of you and allow for Jabs to immediately follow-up. You can also fast-fall and simultaneously input an Nair while coming down from being knocked high above the stage.

Down Aerial Without Fast-Fall

The Tilt Stick does not cause you to automatically fast-fall when you input a Dair. This means that vertical momentum canceling requires you to tap down on the control stick to fast-fall, but it also means you can be more creative with your Dairs off-stage. The only significance for momentum cancel is that because you have to tap down on the control stick to fast-fall, your horizontal control is not as good. It is actually better to input a Bair with the C-stick and tap down on the control stick simultaneously when using the Tilt Stick for vertical momentum canceling.

Walk-off Dairs are obviously made much easier with the Tilt Stick, and there is a much lower risk of messing up. The only possible way to mess up is if you accidentally inputted an Nair by having the C-stick too close to a diagonal, but with a very small amount of practice this can be avoided entirely. Simply walk off the edge and tap down on the c-stick to perform the Dair. You do not even need to input the Dair immediately when you walk off, you can wait for about half a second and still survive; take some time to get used to how close you can cut it.

On top of this, you can also use Dair while falling and not cause yourself to fast-fall. This means you can jump off-stage, control your movement with the control stick, and then Dair using the C-stick when your opponent is under you, regardless of whether you are falling at the time. This makes it possible to use a Dair very far out from the stage and save your double-jump so you can still recover.

The Jump Glitch

Using the Tilt Stick leaves you open to a certain, strange type of mistake if you're not used to it, but it will pose almost no threat once you’re accustomed to it. While using the Tilt Stick regularly, you may notice you sometimes jump when you didn’t input a jump. This jump is a result of bad buffering with your C-stick.

Buffering an attack using the Tilt Stick at a time when the game cannot read the input (right after another attack, after a dash or run animation, when you are stopping running, or in the shield-dropping animation) will cause you to short-hop. The way to eliminate this risk is simple: Be careful about when you use the C-stick, and any time you plan on Jabbing or using a tilt from a run animation, shield first to cancel the dash and use the A button.

The Tilt Stick definitely has it’s uses, but because of this glitch you do have to be aware of when you choose to tap it. Fool around in practice mode to get used to how long it takes Ike to end different animations like dashing, shielding, various attacks, etc. The more comfortable you are knowing how soon you can input a C-stick attack, the better. It is possible to mis-time a Tilt Stick input by a little bit and not jump, so don’t worry about trying to time everything perfectly, buffering carefully is still a good idea.[/collapse]

So many Ike mains posting in here, lol. Anyways, just click 'Show' and that's the comparison I did up for our Ike guide. It's mostly just as the different settings apply to Ike but most of it can be referenced for other characters as well. I personally use the tilt stick for every character I play, including Ike, Ganon, DK, Falcon... and a few others less commonly.

 

[Heartstring]

[collapse=Smash Stick vs Tilt Stick]

Control Schemes
Smash Stick vs Tilt Stick​

This section of the guide will compare the pros and cons of both the Smash Stick and Tilt Stick as they apply to Ike. No bias is given towards either side, so you can read both arguments along with some helpful tips for each and make your own decision on which C-stick control you think would work best for you!

The Smash Stick

This is the default setting for your controller scheme, the Smash Stick. In the ‘Controls’ menu of your game under GameCube Controller, the C-stick should be set to ‘Smash’. There are a few definite advantages to having the Smash Stick as your all-purpose c-stick scheme, and I will now outline them in detail. I will also include some tips and work-around for various issues with the Smash Stick.

Quick Pros & Cons

Pros

• Possible to SDI with the c-stick
• Vertical momentum canceling is somewhat easier
• No Tilt Stick jump glitch

Cons

• Using c-stick to Dair fast-falls
• Cannot use Nair with the c-stick
• Harder to perform Utilt with tap-jump on

Smash Directional Influence (SDI)

Using the Smash Stick allows you to perform SDI with your C-stick and your control stick simultaneously. It is always possible to mash the control stick in any direction at the moment you are hit by an attack, and Ike will shift in that direction. With the Smash Stick, it is possible to do this with the C-stick as well, but it is not possible with the Tilt Stick setting.

To get the most benefit from this, try and predict when you are about to be hit by an attack, or prepare yourself for an attack that will inevitably hit you. At the instant the attack connects with you, alternately tap the control stick and C-stick in the direction you want to shift, and you will do so much more easily than with only using the control stick. Just be sure to use the control stick for standard Directional Influence by holding it in the direction you want to bend your trajectory once you are sent flying.

Using the Smash Stick for SDI helps a lot in escaping from combos and attack strings at low percents, since you can very quickly shift away from your opponent and mess up their timing/spacing. You have to be quick with your fingers and have an ability to understand when certain attack will hit and when you are in a vulnerable position in order to make the most of this advantage.

Vertical Momentum Canceling

Momentum canceling when you are sent vertically (towards the top blast zone) is arguably a bit easier with the Smash Stick than the Tilt Stick. Inputting a Dair with the Smash Stick by tapping it down will automatically cause you to fast-fall, quickly negating your vertical momentum. Since you only need to use the C-stick to initiate the fast-fall, you are free to use the control stick for standard DI and to control Ike in the air while momentum canceling.

For example, say you are hit by Fox’s Uair at middling percent, some distance above the stage. Using your Smash Stick and control stick, you can first SDI down at an angle to increase the distance between you and the top blast zone. Then, you will mash the control stick to one side, to bend your trajectory while simultaneously hitting down on the C-stick to input the Dair and fast-fall. All of these things together make survival quite a bit easier for users of the Smash Stick.

Walk-Off Down Aerials

A key thing to remember here is that holding the control stick down while inputting a Dair with the C-stick cancels out the fast-fall. So, if you want to use a Dair with the C-stick and not fast-fall, you need to be holding down on the control stick. This method is risky but workable and not too hard once you have the hang of it.

Stand near the right edge of the stage (it works on either side but this is just for reference) and tilt your control stick to the right and slightly down. As you walk over the edge, rotate your control stick down and use the C-stick to input the Dair. If performed correctly with the proper timing, you should Dair immediately after walking off and not fast-fall, allowing you to recover using your double jump and Aether.

If you do not get it right the first time or even the first several times, keep practicing, because it is possible. Knowing that holding down on the control stick cancels the fast-fall of a C-stick Dair is good for other things as well. You shouldn’t hold down on the control stick while using a C-stick Dair to momentum cancel for example, because you won’t get the fast-fall.

The Tilt Stick

In order to use the Tilt Stick, go to the ‘Controls’ menu under GameCube Controller and set your C-stick control to ‘Attack’. The Tilt stick is very different to the Smash Stick, and offers a completely new set of benefits and downsides. Which control scheme you choose to use is up to you, but this comparison will give you a good idea of what you can get out of each.

Quick Pros & Cons

Pros

• Possible to Nair using the c-stick
• Using the c-stick to Dair does not fast-fall
• Easy to perform Utilt with tap-jump on

Cons

• Cannot SDI with the c-stick
• Vertical momentum canceling is somewhat harder
• The Tilt Stick jump glitch

C-Stick Neutral Aerial

This is definitely the most convincing argument in favor of the Tilt Stick. By tapping the C-stick in a diagonal direction (it can be any diagonal), you will perform a Jab when standing on the ground, or an Nair if you are airborne at the time. What is the significance of this? Total control of aerial movement while using an Nair.

Normally, to input an Nair requires that you reset your control stick to a neutral position and tap A, thus stopping your horizontal movement. If you input the Nair with the C-stick however, you can continue to move and accelerate using the control stick. It takes some practice to consistently perform Nairs without accidentally inputting a different aerial, but once you have it down, spacing becomes much easier. You can also have more control over walk-off Nairs from platforms.

Some useful methods of employing this that you can try out are short-hopping with the control stick and immediately inputting the Nair with the C-stick, similar to how you would perform an auto-canceled Bair. You can jump with your standard jump button, wait until the apex of your short-hop and then input an Nair while retreating and initiating a fast-fall. This will end Nair’s hitbox in front of you and allow for Jabs to immediately follow-up. You can also fast-fall and simultaneously input an Nair while coming down from being knocked high above the stage.

Down Aerial Without Fast-Fall

The Tilt Stick does not cause you to automatically fast-fall when you input a Dair. This means that vertical momentum canceling requires you to tap down on the control stick to fast-fall, but it also means you can be more creative with your Dairs off-stage. The only significance for momentum cancel is that because you have to tap down on the control stick to fast-fall, your horizontal control is not as good. It is actually better to input a Bair with the C-stick and tap down on the control stick simultaneously when using the Tilt Stick for vertical momentum canceling.

Walk-off Dairs are obviously made much easier with the Tilt Stick, and there is a much lower risk of messing up. The only possible way to mess up is if you accidentally inputted an Nair by having the C-stick too close to a diagonal, but with a very small amount of practice this can be avoided entirely. Simply walk off the edge and tap down on the c-stick to perform the Dair. You do not even need to input the Dair immediately when you walk off, you can wait for about half a second and still survive; take some time to get used to how close you can cut it.

On top of this, you can also use Dair while falling and not cause yourself to fast-fall. This means you can jump off-stage, control your movement with the control stick, and then Dair using the C-stick when your opponent is under you, regardless of whether you are falling at the time. This makes it possible to use a Dair very far out from the stage and save your double-jump so you can still recover.

The Jump Glitch

Using the Tilt Stick leaves you open to a certain, strange type of mistake if you're not used to it, but it will pose almost no threat once you’re accustomed to it. While using the Tilt Stick regularly, you may notice you sometimes jump when you didn’t input a jump. This jump is a result of bad buffering with your C-stick.

Buffering an attack using the Tilt Stick at a time when the game cannot read the input (right after another attack, after a dash or run animation, when you are stopping running, or in the shield-dropping animation) will cause you to short-hop. The way to eliminate this risk is simple: Be careful about when you use the C-stick, and any time you plan on Jabbing or using a tilt from a run animation, shield first to cancel the dash and use the A button.

The Tilt Stick definitely has it’s uses, but because of this glitch you do have to be aware of when you choose to tap it. Fool around in practice mode to get used to how long it takes Ike to end different animations like dashing, shielding, various attacks, etc. The more comfortable you are knowing how soon you can input a C-stick attack, the better. It is possible to mis-time a Tilt Stick input by a little bit and not jump, so don’t worry about trying to time everything perfectly, buffering carefully is still a good idea.[/collapse]

So many Ike mains posting in here, lol. Anyways, just click 'Show' and that's the comparison I did up for our Ike guide. It's mostly just as the different settings apply to Ike but most of it can be referenced for other characters as well. I personally use the tilt stick for every character I play, including Ike, Ganon, DK, Falcon... and a few others less commonly.

lol, i'd jsut gone and retrieved the link to that post to put in this thread, sharkie the ninja