• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Ganon and the Tilt-stick

Terodactyl Yelnats

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
844
Location
B.C Canada
NNID
Perseids_Tero
Ok I've been messing around with the Tilt Stick for a bit and i think it has serious benefits that can't be over looked. Here are some of the pros and cons for it and a description of each afterward. These aren't any new discoveries or anything, just a little compilation of all the tilt stick Information.

Pros:
Ftilting follow-up for SideB's are so easy
You don't fast fall when you c-stick dair
You can still Instant Dash Attack
You can DI better during dtilts

Cons:
Shutter step Fsmash is harder to do
Utilt accidently
Incapable of SDI


Pros Descriptions:

Ftilt follow-ups from SideB's are as easy to do as Dtilts, I'm sure that will make a lot of people happy. The only thing you have to make sure of is that you must time the ftilt and not mash the c-stick forward, this will make you jump.

We all remember Rykoshet's combo videos where he daired offstage and never fastfall suicided. For those who don't know that was because he had a tilt stick. C-stick dairing offstage with a tilt-stick does not make you fastfall which benefits Ganon offstage more than he does already. We can fall farther offstage to dair them by surprise if they recover somewhat low. Walk off dairs are also very good and welcome for Ganon. But my absolute favorite thing about this is when you're on the ledge. You can let go of the ledge by pressing back, c-stick dair and can still survive. This could go hand and hand with tipman gimping on the ledge for people with vertical recovery's like Marth, Toon Link, and Peach.

Yes you can, I've heard from some people that you can't Instant Dash Attack with a tilt stick. Not only can you still do it, you press in any direction for the Instant Dash Attack and it will still work.

DI'ing without the fear of being semi spiked when you get hit while using dtilt. It's very convient when you're fighting a good spacer like Marth.


Cons Descriptions:

You can't instantly Shutter step Fsmash with the c-stick any longer. It's fine for me because I rarely use shutter steps anymore. The good news is that you can still Shutter step fsmash but I think you have to press Backwards and A on the same frame which is moderately difficult.

Random utilts would be the worst reason to add a tilt stick to your play but if you think about it, it doesn't happen that often with smash attacks. How many times do you remember doing an usmash when you tried to shutter step fsmash? I can't really remember doing that a lot.

SDI helps us against moves like Snake's Nair and G&W bair by SDI'ing out if them. However with the tilt stick we don't have that advantage anymore. We still have quarter circle DI but SDI has more of a force of habit with most players.



The Tilt Stick is better for my playstyle and if it helped you too, great I'm glad I could help. This was mainly for a broadened Ganon knowledge for all his mainers.
 

Dumbfire

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
2,397
Location
The Netherlands
NNID
AncientSunlight
Good idea. I think I'm sticking to C stick tough. Mainly because it helps other characters more.
Also, why is Ftilt without tilt stick harder then Dtilt? Can you wiht Dtilt just hold down and then a or something?
 

Terodactyl Yelnats

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
844
Location
B.C Canada
NNID
Perseids_Tero
Good idea. I think I'm sticking to C stick tough. Mainly because it helps other characters more.
Also, why is Ftilt without tilt stick harder then Dtilt? Can you wiht Dtilt just hold down and then a or something?
With dtilt, you just hold down lightly and press A within ten frames of Gerudo's end. With Ftilt however, when you try to do it you're actually buffering the walk and not the attack, so to get an ftilt out you need to buffer it within a much MUCH smaller frame of time window. You can't just hold forward and spam A because you'd walk the first few frames.

Ftilt and Dash attack are the hardest Gerudo follow-ups to do just because of the attack buffering. But with the Tilt-Stick, ftilt is just as easy as dtilt and you can still use instant Dash Attack (iDA).
 

RESET Vao

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
394
Location
United Kingdom
NNID
RESET_Imp
It's worth it for the f-tilt followup, sometimes.

However, the cons outshine out. Sure the list is smaller but they affect Ganon more.

You forget that you do lots of buggery stuff with T-Stick, like random jumps. HNNNGGG.
 

Dumbfire

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
2,397
Location
The Netherlands
NNID
AncientSunlight
With dtilt, you just hold down lightly and press A within ten frames of Gerudo's end. With Ftilt however, when you try to do it you're actually buffering the walk and not the attack, so to get an ftilt out you need to buffer it within a much MUCH smaller frame of time window. You can't just hold forward and spam A because you'd walk the first few frames.

Ftilt and Dash attack are the hardest Gerudo follow-ups to do just because of the attack buffering. But with the Tilt-Stick, ftilt is just as easy as dtilt and you can still use instant Dash Attack (iDA).
Well, I'm having more trouble with the Dtilt then the Ftilt. =/
 

TP

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
3,341
Location
St. Louis, MO
Honestly, the only reason I don't use tilt-stick is my tag is already in everyone's Wiis all over the state and I don't wanna have to worry about changing it. Also, regular is better for the other characters I use (like MK LOL).
 

Terodactyl Yelnats

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
844
Location
B.C Canada
NNID
Perseids_Tero
It's worth it for the f-tilt followup, sometimes.

However, the cons outshine out. Sure the list is smaller but they affect Ganon more.

You forget that you do lots of buggery stuff with T-Stick, like random jumps. HNNNGGG.
Shutter Step fsmash isn't something you need and isn't really that much of a Con in of itself. Random Utilts are easy to avoid because Ganon's never random Usmash with Smash sticks, and I think the Pros are more useful than the Cons are bad. SideB Ftilt is an easy way to kill D3 off the side at like 125% since it's really hard to Kill D3 with Ganon in the first place.

And I also included that you only jump with the C-stick if you mash it and don't time it. Mashing the C-stick is a wifi habit and isn't what ganon really does in the first place.
 

Dumbfire

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
2,397
Location
The Netherlands
NNID
AncientSunlight
Hmm, I should have thought of the dtilt before, thanks, I now do them both good :)
That does mean I don't need Tilt Stick, Forward Tilt bufer goes fine for me.
 

Terodactyl Yelnats

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
844
Location
B.C Canada
NNID
Perseids_Tero
Good to hear :) I'm not trying to convert people to the Tilt, just presenting an opportunity for those who it works with. Glad I could help somewhat with some posts afterward.
 

Bahamut777

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
684
Location
Brazil
I'm almost an Salmon Smash Spammer... =\
I don't think it would fit my playstyle.
Still I'll try it today at a lesser tournament.
 

Max113

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
190
Lmao Max stay with your Snake. You're mad at my ftilt power and my non fastfall dair edgeguards. :p
Heh heh, I like my snake thanks. :]

Naw... my 21% damage, 1/4 of BF, 150% kill, Death of Ganon, Ftilt is probably a little better... :p
 

Bahamut777

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
684
Location
Brazil
I tried it a bit today...
I missed USmash, that I use a lot on DAir follow ups at low %s, but I liked the instant dtilt and ftilt Gerudo FUs made easy.
Will use it oftenly, along with the smash stick.
 

Terodactyl Yelnats

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
844
Location
B.C Canada
NNID
Perseids_Tero
I tried it a bit today...
I missed USmash, that I use a lot on DAir follow ups at low %s, but I liked the instant dtilt and ftilt Gerudo FUs made easy.
Will use it oftenly, along with the smash stick.
Did you try the non-fastfall dairs? That's my favorite part. :D
 

Bahamut777

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
684
Location
Brazil
Yes I did. It's so good to kill someone that is already on hell and still get back on stage. :D
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
7,336
Gah.

So I've been trying this. The dairs are awesome.

I just keep on jabbing instead of Fsmashing in the opposite direction. **** muscle memory. Missed perfect kills several times.
 

Terodactyl Yelnats

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
844
Location
B.C Canada
NNID
Perseids_Tero
I don't think it affects SDI is the least. I've still been able to SDI out of G&W's bair the same as when I had the smash stick.
 

Terodactyl Yelnats

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
844
Location
B.C Canada
NNID
Perseids_Tero
The Ike boards already discussed this, you loose the ability to SDI with the Tilt-stick. :/
That's weird. I'm still able to SDI up out of G&W's bair consistently, are you sure you lose the ability completely or you can only use it a little?
 

Max113

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
190
That's weird. I'm still able to SDI up out of G&W's bair consistently, are you sure you lose the ability completely or you can only use it a little?
I'm actually not to sure myself, what I said is just quote-on-quote from what they said... I think what they meant is that you loose the ability to SDI with the C-stick, but I'm still not sure...

MWHAHAHA Sucks for you Gamecube Controller people
Get out... XD
 

Dumbfire

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
2,397
Location
The Netherlands
NNID
AncientSunlight
Tried just now. Gonna keep this in mind and practice somewhat with it on wifi, wifi doens't matter anyway so its the perfect place to do it xD
 

PK-ow!

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,890
Location
Canada, ON
Ok I've been messing around with the Tilt Stick for a bit and i think it has serious benefits that can't be over looked. Here are some of the pros and cons for it and a description of each afterward. These aren't any new discoveries or anything, just a little compilation of all the tilt stick Information.

Pros:
Ftilting follow-up for SideB's are so easy
You don't fast fall when you c-stick dair
You can still Instant Dash Attack Not a pro, then
You can DI better during dtilts

Cons:
Shutter step Fsmash is harder to do
Utilt accidently

Ftilt followups to Gerudo are already easy, if you practiced.
Sure you don't fast fall if you c-stick Dair, but why are you c-sticking dair? Edge the control stick down during hitstun and then hit A.

As for DI, no character should be dtilting if they could get interrupted. That's just a learned caution for Smash games.


Stutter stepping though, landing Fsmashes across large gaps can mean a stock versus totally forfeited punish. Can you afford to miss one of these, ever?
 

Dumbfire

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
2,397
Location
The Netherlands
NNID
AncientSunlight
Hmm. If you short hop upair to fast (y/x + up c) You'll get a short hop nair too..
I thik I'm gonna stick with smash stick then, or might get to tilt stick for once in a while..
 

Terodactyl Yelnats

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
844
Location
B.C Canada
NNID
Perseids_Tero
Ftilt followups to Gerudo are already easy, if you practiced.
Sure you don't fast fall if you c-stick Dair, but why are you c-sticking dair? Edge the control stick down during hitstun and then hit A.

As for DI, no character should be dtilting if they could get interrupted. That's just a learned caution for Smash games.


Stutter stepping though, landing Fsmashes across large gaps can mean a stock versus totally forfeited punish. Can you afford to miss one of these, ever?
Don't get me wrong, I could still ftilt out of Gerudo relatively easy. I just never really liked how I'd mess up sometimes because of it's absurdly small frame window. And it's much easier to just c-stick dairs without having to set up for it like that. You don't have to be in hitstun either.

There's always a possibility of interruption by your opponent. Ganon's dtilt is one of his best moves and you're making it sound like he's only using it for Gerudo Follow ups and punishing. Ganon doesn't really have other good options to use when Dtilt presents itself.

Fsmash is slow and easy to dodge offline, anyone with competent knowledge of Ganon knows about his shutter step. Oh and you are still able to Shutter step fsmash with a tilt stick, if you practiced.
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
7,336
Pffshaw, all about the salmon smash.

After practicing, I can reliably stutterstep my Fsmashes still, and it has majorly helped me incorporate dtilt into my game.

For me, I stick all my aerials. Always. Tiltsticking for non-fastfall dairs gives me more control.

I also have a better knowledge of when Ganon's aerials end exactly, due to the whole "you hit the stick before finishing a move, you'll nair or jump" thing. My gerudo followups are also much better, though I expect the inability to Dsmash Olimar might possibly cause problems.

All in all, Tilt-sticking seems much better. Part of the troubles of my game was throwing out Fsmashes everywhere. I don't do that anymore.

~Supreme Dirt
 

Dumbfire

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
2,397
Location
The Netherlands
NNID
AncientSunlight
Yeah so I mainly cstick arials as well.. And when you click y/x + up c too hard you get a short hop nair. (Maybe its what happens when you would normally get an upsmash by pressing y/x + c up with cstick set to smashes, but I don't think that as I never got those with c-stick set to smashes).
 

Bahamut777

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
684
Location
Brazil
I change my jump button do B, so I can jump->cstick aerials instantly. With tilt stick, I've been double jumping or nairing too much. That's not what I want.
BTW, USmash REALLY is missing in my game. I just love that move.
Sorry. Can't stick to this stick. /pun-ny
 

Heartstring

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
11,129
Location
England
hey, just adding my two cents as an ike main who already loves his a-stick.
you were tossing about the idea of the 'random' jumping.
there are set ways of knowing when the tilt sitck will make you jump.
there are a fair few weays of knowing it will make you jump, but the safest thing to know is to just not mash the thing.
also, whether its good for ganon or not (probably not) you can n-air with a-stick by pressing it diagonally meaning you can approach/retreat with nair a lot easier (this is obviously more of an ike thing)
also by pressing back on the stick when on the floor (a.k.a pushing right when facing left) makes you jab, probably better for ike again, but still pretty useful for ganon (mashing back when the iasa frames happen causes the jump, by the way)
hope this helped a little
 

Max113

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
190
OK just for the record, I did an SDI test on Palkia's lazor with just the C-stick and here are the results:

Tilt stick: ABSOULUTELY NOTHING!!!

Smash Stick: 100% REAL SOVIET SDI!!!!

I think that got my point across. :] Anyway, the conclusion: Tilt Stick completely disables the ability to SDI with the C-stick. :(

I tested this with Ike and Ganon btw...
 

Heartstring

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
11,129
Location
England
OK just for the record, I did an SDI test on Palkia's lazor with just the C-stick and here are the results:

Tilt stick: ABSOULUTELY NOTHING!!!

Smash Stick: 100% REAL SOVIET SDI!!!!

I think that got my point across. :] Anyway, the conclusion: Tilt Stick completely disables the ability to SDI with the C-stick. :(

I tested this with Ike and Ganon btw...
yeah thats a disadvantage i forgot about. sdi dosent happen with a-stick. but qcdi with the control stick is fine right? i mean if youre like me and cant tech a wall even if you do sdi into it, and if youre also like me and you cant sdi unless its samus's charge shot.
yeah im technically horrible XD
edit: oh by the way, if you go to the ike boards, we're making a new guide and we should probably have a lot on the pros and cons of c-stick/a-stick up there, might help in this topic
 

Max113

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
190
yeah thats a disadvantage i forgot about. sdi dosent happen with a-stick. but qcdi with the control stick is fine right? i mean if youre like me and cant tech a wall even if you do sdi into it, and if youre also like me and you cant sdi unless its samus's charge shot.
yeah im technically horrible XD
edit: oh by the way, if you go to the ike boards, we're making a new guide and we should probably have a lot on the pros and cons of c-stick/a-stick up there, might help in this topic
Ugh... didn't they leave qcdi out of brawl? :O

Lol dude, go Snake and play Duelist Pro for a couple hours. It works pretty well. XD
 
Top Bottom