Game and Watch Matchup Export: Diddy Kong

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daniel7001
#1
Diddy Kong



Matchup: 35:65 (-2)

Basic Info:
Diddy Kong is one of the few item based characters in the game. However, Diddy Kong gets the best item in the game in the form of Banana Peels. These transcendent priority items are what allow Diddy Kong to be so high in tiering. He also gets blessed by having the best glide toss in the game, not in length, but in utility. These traits allow him to rack damage very quickly and can set up for easy kills. However, not all is good for Diddy, other players can use his bananas against him, he kills late, and he gets killed early.

Videos
UTDZac vs. Gnes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRgMQLHkQEw
UTDZac vs. Gnes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzCCv3DrKc0&feature=relmfu
UTDZac vs. Bwett: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjIMfEKlNPQ
Rizen vs. Jules (WiFi): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cg5OUv8_sQ&feature=plcp

Strategy:
  • We have a terrible trip animation, so be very aware in this matchup. If he is holding a banana and shielding, don't go in. He will destroy us. We have to wait out the shield until we can guaranteed hit him.
  • A banana in his hand is bad news for us, but if we can get one. Glidetoss to usmash or sideb works very well with our very long distance glide toss.
  • Diddy Kong lacks killing power, and with good di and bucket breaking we can make it even harder for him. We also kill very early, with our glide toss helping out a lot in this.
  • Bananas are transcendent (only interact with hurtboxes) and item throws are a very fast move that can be done OoS. This means that we can get shut down very easily, but luckily we can't trip in the air, so we don't get shut down that badly.
  • Game and Watch has no options that are safe against :diddy: shield if he has a banana. That being said you MUST bait the banana throw. If there's a banana in front of :diddy: and one in hand, there is very little you can do. Your main goal should be to get 1 of those bananas away and keep it from getting back to us. You have some nice glide toss set ups, but we're going to be looking for that so throw the bananas up/down, so that you keep it away and it's under your control as a mixup. You can't trip in the air, so stay mobile and weave around our bananas until you can land something. Once you get us in the air/offstage, keep the pressure on. If we knock you away, out comes the bananas. If you see bananas flying at you, shield it and your reaction after will normally be one of the following:

    1. Jump up and catch it/insta-throw it straight down.
    2. Up-b if we try to rush you.
    3. Spot dodge the second banana that :diddy: usually throw if it's around.
    4. Jump away.

    One thing that I never really understood that :gw: players like to do is dair....a lot. If we shield it, we usually get a punish out of it. Don't get me wrong it's a good mixup, but I see players do that the whole match and try to up-b away each time. Game and Watch has to go for mixups and get :diddy: in the air/offstage where he can actually do well against him. Against a campy :diddy:, find something that they keep doing to punish you when you get close, bait it, and turn the tables. Don't try and rush things. If you can get a nice lead, you are in a good position. We have to come to you and commit (sorta lol bananas) which makes punishing us a lot easier. Overall, your major disadvantage is that you don't have a safe option on our shield if we have a banana. Bait and punish will be your key to winning this MU.

Stages:
Assuming the stagelist from Unity 2.1
Strikes
1. Final Destination
2. Smashville
3. Castle Siege
Runner-Up - Pokemon Stadium 1


Counter Pick
1. Rainbow Cruise / Brinstar
2. Frigate Orpheon
Runner-Up - Halberd


Ban
1. Final Destination
Runner-Up - Pokemon Stadium 1

 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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#2
So a shielding Diddy with a naner absolutely destroys G&W. You need to wait for an opportunity to do anything. When you get the chance to do something, things get ugly. Glidetossing into usmash or sideB is effective, but doing so is risky since throwing the naner towards Diddy is exactly what he wants you to do.
Do not touch his shield if he has a naner, whatever you do you will take a lot of damage, our trip animation is tied for the worst in the game so we are gonna get owned in that case.

tl;dr I lose this MU because I am and I feel bad
 
Joined
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#3
Stages:
Yoshi's, Diddy hates the stage because of the uneven ground and middle platform
Halberd, Delfino, anywhere we can shark
 

-Ominous-

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
285
#5
I've been messing around against Diddy and I think that if you run towards them, and they throw a banana at you, you can short hop>catch with an air dodge>drop the banana on them with Z. At least if you're a certain distance away from them you should be able to drop the banana while air dodging on them.

I don't really know the matchup at all.
 

UTDZac

▲▲▲▲▲
GRimer
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#7
I love this matchup. Just practice against any Diddy player and learn to control bananas. I cannot stress enough how important understanding bananas are.
 

-Ominous-

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
285
#9
Good thing AZ is packed with Diddy player.

All one of them. But yeah, banana control can make or break this matchup.
I have a buddy that's just about as good as your friend Alex, he came last tournament, but didn't enter, because he wasn't confident enough.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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#14
Personally there is no hope for me in this MU. In that tourney I placed 2nd with G&W, I only lost to Diddy and those matches were almost all just 3 stocks. My G&W is super bad so I had to go the easy way and use toptiers.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
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#17
Oh yeah, I think Alex was mentioning him.

But we are still in the dark compared to some other states. *Cough* Texas *Cough*
^Every state directly above Texas is:c.
_________________________________________
Bananas (nanas) are transcendent (only interact with hurtboxes) and item throws are a very fast move that can be done OoS.
I don't think wind affects nanas like it does explosive items. G&W probably can chain some aerials with them but I only know it works with Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttSV7kTakKs&feature=plcp
G&W's great air game is our Ace because nanas can't air-trip. The 3 things that make this MU hard imo are, diddy's speed/agility, nanas and Monkey Flip. They all work together to make Diddy very hard to deal with; the flip has grab properties if kick isn't used even when Diddy's holding a nana.
Zac's vid beats the heck out of mine, but here's my most recent Diddy vs G&W game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cg5OUv8_sQ&feature=plcp
 
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daniel7001
#18
The trascendent priority is quite helpful actually.

The problem with that video is that it's wifi. The lag can really screw with some characters. The wifi is holding me back from wanting to put that on the main page.

But yeah there was a tourney yesterday, maybe Ominous or SmileyFace got to play one of the Diddy mains that was there..
 

SFA Smiley

The SFA King
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#19
I played SadPanda and Vato Break yesterday

No offense to sadpanda, but I just outplayed him, I'm better at handling the Banana's then he is

VatoBreak beat me pretty bad, but I didn't play his diddy enough (i played like one match vs diddy) to absorb any info

Although dekar taught me some things more in-depthly, I forgot it since then

just don't trip :awesome:
 
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#20
Sadpanda is very new competitivey, I've seen a ton of improvemet in him.

Well if you remember any of it, don't hesitate.

I forgot to play any of the diddy players, so.. :(

One thing I know is don't shield if he throws a banana at you, just upb. The shield lets them get a grab in almost every time.
 

SFA Smiley

The SFA King
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#21
Sadpanda is very new competitivey, I've seen a ton of improvemet in him.

Well if you remember any of it, don't hesitate.

I forgot to play any of the diddy players, so.. :(

One thing I know is don't shield if he throws a banana at you, just upb. The shield lets them get a grab in almost every time.
Oh yeah definitely, I was saying it to other people how much he improved, I was watching his matches, he was doing pretty decently against a lot of people actually I was really impressed
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
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#23
The trascendent priority is quite helpful actually.
^That is what makes nanas the best projectile in the game besides Falco's lasers.
The problem with that video is that it's wifi. The lag can really screw with some characters. The wifi is holding me back from wanting to put that on the main page.
The keyword is 'can', people are too quick to dismiss wifi because it 'can' be bad. It's never as good as offline but wifi with a good connection is legit. Although I'm not the best G&W and don't think that vid's a great example for the first post. We need videos to help the discussions and only ones from 2010 were posted.
 
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#24
The keyword is 'can', people are too quick to dismiss wifi because it 'can' be bad. It's never as good as offline but wifi with a good connection is legit. Although I'm not the best G&W and don't think that vid's a great example for the first post. We need videos to help the discussions and only ones from 2010 were posted.
Good point, I just 9.9/10 experience lag online and it kills me at least once per game. I have really fast internet so I get that "if I lag, everyone must lag more" feeling. I'll put it up when it's daytime.
 

Zinoto

Smash Lord
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#29
One thing I know is don't shield if he throws a banana at you, just upb. The shield lets them get a grab in almost every time.
This is not a good idea at all. You'll be in the air and either air dodge to the ground or dair (like 90% of game and watches) which we will punish.

I'll do a big write-up later, but this MU is definitely -2 for you guys. If diddy simply camps with bananas out, you're in for a rough ride.

:phone:
 

SFA Smiley

The SFA King
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#30
So you are saying upB is a horrible move?
Nah, he's just saying that's not a good option in that scenario. On smashville we can just float to the platform though.

I'd just catch them, if you have decent enough reflexes.

If you up-b you have no choice but to land (which will get punished with a nana, or uair (which is fast enough to hit before the key comes out.

Up-B with a nana in your hand isn't too bad though, we can use aerials out of Up-B while keeping a nana out of his control. It sorta limits you though.

I think we should have positive control of a nana at all times, he's way easier to deal with with just one. And by positive control I just mean keeping it away from him at all times, on your half of the stage, on the smashville platform, in the air, whatever. Diddy's wanna just shield you with nana's in their hand so I would attempt to be patient and let his shield weaken and then bair him or whatever (take care if the diddy tilts his shield though)

If he rolls back or resets up-b away and reset things. Nair protects us from peanut spam so use that to reduce damage as you're camped while you figure out another battle plan. And airdodge into nanas so you don't trip on em'

Diddy's hard, but there's still harder characters and as a GW main we're used to it never being that easy anyway
 

Damittom

Smash Ace
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#31
This is not a good idea at all. You'll be in the air and either air dodge to the ground or dair (like 90% of game and watches) which we will punish.

I'll do a big write-up later, but this MU is definitely -2 for you guys. If diddy simply camps with bananas out, you're in for a rough ride.

:phone:
Yoo excited for this.

Also why have we not played yet?

:phone:
 

vato_break

Smash Master
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#33
Best thing you can do in this MU is familiarize yourself with bananas and I don't mean just using glide tosses, learn all of the aspects of the banana. Diddy kinda beats gnw solidly though.
 

Zinoto

Smash Lord
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Messages
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#34
Alright so I'll give my ratio, the BBR ratio, and why an analysis of the MU.

Personal Ratio: -2 :gw:
BBR Ratio: -2 :gw:

Analysis: Game and Watch has no options that are safe against :diddy: shield if he has a banana. That being said you MUST bait the banana throw. If there's a banana in front of :diddy: and one in hand, there is very little you can do. Your main goal should be to get 1 of those bananas away and keep it from getting back to us. You have some nice glide toss set ups, but we're going to be looking for that so throw the bananas up/down, so that you keep it away and it's under your control as a mixup. You can't trip in the air, so stay mobile and weave around our bananas until you can land something. Once you get us in the air/offstage, keep the pressure on. If we knock you away, out comes the bananas (which means back to the -2 MU). If you see bananas flying at you, shield it and your reaction after will normally be one of the following:

1. Jump up and catch it/insta-throw it straight down.
2. Up-b if we try to rush you.
3. Spot dodge the second banana that :diddy: usually throw if it's around.
4. Jump away.

One thing that I never really understood that :gw: players like to do is dair....a lot. If we shield it, we usually get a punish out of it. Don't get me wrong it's a good mixup, but I see players do that the whole match and try to up-b away each time. Game and Watch has to go for mixups and get :diddy: in the air/offstage where he can actually do well against him. Against a campy :diddy:, find something that they keep doing to punish you when you get close, bait it, and turn the tables.

Stages you should shoot for are :battlefieldb: and :yoshisb:. As a counter pick, I would pick :frigate: or :halberd:. Don't try and rush things. If you can get a nice lead, you are in a good position. We have to come to you and commit (sorta lol bananas) which makes punishing us a lot easier. It's a hard MU, but not unwinnable. There aren't many current vids of this MU, so I guess look at some older ones to get a feel on how it looks. Overall, your major disadvantage is that you don't have a safe option on our shield if we have a banana. Bait and punish will be your key to winning this MU.
 

Damittom

Smash Ace
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#35
Zinoto Play me at PS4 and then teach me this matchup.

My only experience is one set against fzk and a couple of friendlies against him at a smashfest
 
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