G&W vs Lucas/Ness

[Kyari]

Hellow Lucas mains, now I figure you're all pretty hardcore as you refuse to switch mains even with the pseudoinfinite chaingrab that youll be playing against, so I figure as a G&W main I can ask this question about the matchup and be given some accurate/insightful responses.

Why doesn't G&W's upair completely destroy Lucas? There are times when you'll need to use his Up+B to recover; it's just a fact, and G&W's upair blows them right out of it pretty much gimping their ***. I would imagine that if I ever saw someone used Lucas or Ness in a tournament, that I would use my G&W and pretty much force a switch.

Input?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Granted, I've never played a G&W before, but, in Lucas's case at least (since he has a tether recovery), you won't likely be seeing PK Thunder to recover unless he's really far out -- probably too far for you to get over and under and get a uair in. That, and steering PK Thunder into yourself isn't as slow as people make it out to be.

EDIT: Also, the uair would actually help Lucas get back to the stage, since it pushes him up. Why do you want this, again? ._.

Random question: Would G&W's air puffs restore PK Thunder or not? I know it interacts strangely with Kirby and can have him lose a copy ability, at least.

Again, I've never played a G&W, so this is 100% theory or BS, depending on how you look at it.

 

[Levitas]

Any lucas that knows what he's doing will use Up B sparingly, and only far enough and low enough that the G&W will not be able to either bucket or uair. Lucas's up b goes really far.

Ness uses his Up b low and somewhat closer making the bucket the better choice, but usually he's able to get back with his DJ, or at least hit you away using it so that his recovery with pk thunder is clear.


I have seen this edgeguard work once, it's funny, but it never happens due to the way optimal recovery angles work.

Edit: at paranoid Drone, it screws up the angle you hit yourself in by pushing you into the pkt early and so you go almost straight down. He hits you with the wind box, so no it doesn't restore your up b.

 

[TechnoMonster]

G+W is very beatable as Lucas, you just have to learn the limitations of your side of the matchup. Snake and floatyness helps a ton with recovery.

 

[Tyr_03]

Yeah really this just isn't that much of an issue. It's all about knowing when to use PK Thunder and when not to. Since Brawl physics make it so easy to control your aerial movement it can be really easy to make it back onto the ledge sometimes just by messing with your spacing. It's like every character is Jigglypuff. Well sort of anyway.

Either way G and W isn't even close to the best at gimping Ness and Lucas. Ironically they're great at gimping eachother. And Mario can gimp PK Thunder so bad it's not even funny.

 

[Kyari]

Well, I tried doing this against my Lucas friend and it didn't really work so well. Seems like if I killed him, it was a KO, not an edgeguard. Eh, I think it'll work sometimes, it just seemed like most attacks I did would send Lucas almost diagonal, so he had plenty of vertical zone to work with. It's something I'll definitely make a conscious effort to think about during a match against him, but not something I expect to dominate with.

I guess I'll just continue the tradition of counterpicking Marth then :D

 

[Mikezor]

You can up-b right next to him as G&W... I think it pushes him sideways away from his PK Thunder.

 

[Neb]

Yeah, up-b springs them in odd directions, the trampoline can take a head-on pkt2 if positioned correctly, also gimps pkt. With G&W, its okay to be daring, just save your second jump and you can easily make it up from the base of stages.