G&W bad matchup

[Steelsburg]

Okay so I'm having a problem,
I absolutely hate sonic players.
Anyone who mains GW have any techniques on getting past sonics (good ones, not spammy ones) because I'm having trouble with this match up, ex. I'm slow in comparison, some of sonics range beats mine ect.

P.S. I really hate sonic. I can't respect sonic players, and it's not because I suck, but more because I don't believe in him ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[X3I]

When you see a spin > UpSmash.
UpSmash all day long, actually.

 

[Steelsburg]

When you see a spin > UpSmash.
UpSmash all day long, actually.

I second that. Maybe I just dislike sonic so much to try lol

 

[SeanS]

It's a terrible MU for G&W. If customs are enabled, however, you can force Sonic to not spindash blindly.

Otherwise, you pretty much have to just play a very defensive, timing-based mindgame with your smashes (and more rarely, dash attack / fair). You can also take advantage of how his kill moves are usually telegraphed.

 

[Wafty]

Just go for it

 

[X3I]

The match-up isn't that terrible... Probably 45-55.
Turtle works very well on his approaches, as well as Up Smash.
To me, it's just a timing question... I feel Game & Watch is based on reflexes anyway.

 

[8-bit KoopaKid]

I've been having trouble with Dedede. I can deal with the gordos, but its his forward smash, he just backdashes and then can down smash or tilt before I have a chance to respond then I gotta start watching for gordos again. I can't run up and turtle in fast enough either.

Anyone else having problems with Dedede as Gdubs? I hate having to switch characters since I love this one too much.

 

[lllp3lll]

but its his forward smash, he just backdashes and then can down smash or tilt before I have a chance to respond then I gotta start watching for gordos again. I can't run up and turtle in fast enough either.

If your opponent does or whiffs something outside of your grab range you dash attack them, if it whiffs you dash attack again.

 

[TheMiSP]

I think you just need to read rolls more.

Roll away = dash attack
Roll behind = pivot ftilt/fsmash

Or what I think so...

 

[8-bit KoopaKid]

If your opponent does or whiffs something outside of your grab range you dash attack them, if it whiffs you dash attack again.

The problem I've been having is when I go in, the dsmash comes out before the helmet hits him. Maybe I'll work on spacing closer to him when the hammer drops to close the gap quicker but then I'm risking getting hit and that thing just destroys me.

This is the only thing I really struggle with dealing with as G&W. >_<

 

[Steelsburg]

De

I've been having trouble with Dedede. I can deal with the gordos, but its his forward smash, he just backdashes and then can down smash or tilt before I have a chance to respond then I gotta start watching for gordos again. I can't run up and turtle in fast enough either.

Anyone else having problems with Dedede as Gdubs? I hate having to switch characters since I love this one too much.

ddd is easy for me. Just hit the Gordos with n-a on the ground. Force him to use his up b to recover on stage and catch 3 of his stars for a 0% ko

 

[lllp3lll]

The problem I've been having is when I go in, the dsmash comes out before the helmet hits him.

Sounds like your too far away, if your that far away (half the stage?) Use chef, ignore him throwing out fsmashes. Chef walk forward chef. The food will reflect his sideb and get you closer safely.

 

[TheMiSP]

How to deal with Captain Falcon?

Like landing options? What should I be doing during success or failure? Do I have an answer to his uair? So on and so forth?

Good news is that I'm exposed to a friend who mains him almost everyday. Unfortunately, most of our matches are FFAs/goof offs.

 

[8-bit KoopaKid]

Sounds like your too far away, if your that far away (half the stage?) Use chef, ignore him throwing out fsmashes. Chef walk forward chef. The food will reflect his sideb and get you closer safely.

I actually started using chef yesterday and it helped a lot. Now I just need to find a way to kill him before he's at 150% >_<

 

[BBC7]

I can't stand ZSS. I know that you can bucket her projectile which she relies on for BnB combos, but everything else seems like a pain in the bottom when fighting her. Side B can easily deny our Dash Attack approaches and Dash Grab approaches, and I find that you rarely have an option to punish her Side B out of shield unless you're in close range and you perfect-shielded. I haven't been able to find a reliable way to deal with Down B either. We don't have a regular U-Air, I've never been able to beat it with Nair, and I never find myself in a position to use Fair or Bair. Dair is also ineffective for obvious reasons. Up B is our best bet but you will trade at times and Down B is not a pretty move to trade with. Down B is also safe on shield which is really annoying, you can't even chase after her with a Dash Attack. If you do have a full bucket, ZSS will just go spam-happy with Neutral B because she knows you don't want to risk throwing out an Oil Panic, and she knows that she can play it super safe while you're just kind of a sitting duck as a result.

 

[TheMiSP]

I can't stand ZSS. I know that you can bucket her projectile which she relies on for BnB combos, but everything else seems like a pain in the bottom when fighting her. Side B can easily deny our Dash Attack approaches and Dash Grab approaches, and I find that you rarely have an option to punish her Side B out of shield unless you're in close range and you perfect-shielded. I haven't been able to find a reliable way to deal with Down B either. We don't have a regular U-Air, I've never been able to beat it with Nair, and I never find myself in a position to use Fair or Bair. Dair is also ineffective for obvious reasons. Up B is our best bet but you will trade at times and Down B is not a pretty move to trade with. Down B is also safe on shield which is really annoying, you can't even chase after her with a Dash Attack. If you do have a full bucket, ZSS will just go spam-happy with Neutral B because she knows you don't want to risk throwing out an Oil Panic, and she knows that she can play it super safe while you're just kind of a sitting duck as a result.

G&W is a ******. Not here to make the matchup sound better, but you can literally duck under a bunch load of things ZSS does.

What you can duck under:
Dash Attack (wow rofl)
Grab (don't know about side B)
Lasers
Fsmash (need fast reflexes)
Jab (I think)

Those who don't know the matchup would panic and start to predictably use their dtilt and dsmash. I believe you can beat dtilt with your dash attack. Dsmash leads to bucket. I wouldn't bucket lasers since you're most likely getting dash attacked in the face. And those who know how to torture well can allow you to bucket up to 2/3 and never shoot lasers again.

As for her down B, shielding can be an option, but you're doing what she's expecting you to do. Maybe you can challenge her down B with usmash? I did that with Pikachu's usmash and ended up killing her. But be wary since you get buried for waaaay too long.

Remember I'm speaking as of now. Who knows if one of the ZSS mains discovers this/reads this post, only to become aware and counterplan maybe.

And if you really want to know, I'm pretty sure your dash attack > hers. Half the time your dash attack hitbox is already out but she hasn't started hers yet.

 

[BBC7]

G&W is a ******. Not here to make the matchup sound better, but you can literally duck under a bunch load of things ZSS does.

Honestly, I'm horrible with determining whether a match-up is good or not. I used to believe that Little Mac was very disadvantageous because he could go right through our attacks with superarmor and kill us early because of our pathetic weight. I still don't think it's in our advantage, I think it's even because one has a threatening air game and the other has a threatening ground game, it's just a matter of who's allowed to use their strong spot. I really don't think ducking makes it that better of a match-up anyways. You can't move when you duck, and Side B will still hit if you don't shield. (I think, Side B kind of goes all over the place while Grab is a straight whip)

 

[8-bit KoopaKid]

So through the awesomeness of this thread, I have no problems with Dedede anymore, however, Link is now crushing me pretty well. I can get him to about 50-60% on his last life before he finally just finishes me. Anyone have any general tips for getting in on him. Bacon has been too slow and punished a bunch. Dash attack doesn't get me there nor does box. I've been running, blocking, then hoping I can land either jab or a tilt or a grab. Or I occasionally can turtle in, but he now shield grabs that. The projectiles make it really annoying to get close, then he tilts or sometimes smashes depending on distance. If I can get him off the edge, it gets way easier, but its just getting to that point consistently. I've only practiced about 2 hours against him in a training thing with my buddy to figure it out and won a whole 2 games, one because he missed a spike.

 

[SeanS]

Stop laying back to bucket ZSS' moves and play aggressively. You need to abuse the endlag on every last one of her attacks and be willing to cross-up to make her uncomfortable with zoning. She is much more committal per each attack than she looks.

Oh, and of course, Up B her whenever she goes for that seemingly unblockable backflip recovery. That makes her extremely easy to edgeguard afterwards.

For Link: running up to him and powershielding incoming boomerangs are always advisable for pressure purposes. Rushing in as he draws bombs can net you a free hit. Be mindful of currently drawn bombs as you punish his easily gimped recovery, and go in for secondary hits if necessary. Close distance as much as is realistically possible after every attack to force out panic jabs / tilts / grabs. Be ready to predict whether or not there will be a followup after a single hit of his Fsmash. Cross-up to pressure his zoning.

 

[natethegreat2nd]

Any Megaman advice? I get destroyed by the projectile game and they mix it up just enough that I can't predict when to bucket the side smash. The constant saw blade and pellet jab thingy are giving me fits. Not to mention I can't attack from above because he can send up the whirlwind. The only success I have had is just from constant dash attacks to cancel the projectiles and then try to get an Usmash. I just can't figure him out. .

 

[pepi1197]

So im by no means an expert and if someone else has time to make a reply or correcy mine, please do.

If you can't get in the air before you bucket, shield/duck that stuff. The endlag on the bucket isn't worth pocketing a side smash if you're on the ground. Mega Man is somewhat easy to gimp considering the predictability of his recovery and going deep near the ledge with bair can get you a stage spike more often than not. Dash attack is great but try to follow up with a uair or at least pressure him with it. Usmash is great but getting an aerial setup is better. Lastly, walling with chef can work. I know it cancels his smaller stuff at the very least.

 

[Denzill7]

In my opinion, G&W's bad matchups would be King Dedede, Bowser, Rosalina, and Ness.
King Dedede kills really early and he's hard to edgeguard.
It's hard to approach Bowser because of his tilts and he also kills really early.
Rosalina outspaces you and his hard to approach because of Luma.
Ness's grabs off of PK Fire (bucketed or unbucketed) either mean a down throw fair or a back throw kill off the sides at around 100%.

 

[BBC7]

In my opinion, G&W's bad matchups would be King Dedede, Bowser, Rosalina, and Ness.
King Dedede kills really early and he's hard to edgeguard.
It's hard to approach Bowser because of his tilts and he also kills really early.
Rosalina outspaces you and his hard to approach because of Luma.
Ness's grabs off of PK Fire (bucketed or unbucketed) either mean a down throw fair or a back throw kill off the sides at around 100%.

Nah, Ness is easy. Don't focus on filling your bucket, focus on avoiding the PK Fire through other methods and punish. If you power-shield, it's a free grab. If you jump over it, you can fastfall an aerial. Heck, make sure he doesn't throw it out often in the first place. Apply Dash Attack pressure, and make sure to space it so that you can jab him when he tries to OoS Grab. If you get hit by PK Fire, Up B out of it. Also, Ness is trash off-stage.

 

[Denzill7]

Nah, Ness is easy. Don't focus on filling your bucket, focus on avoiding the PK Fire through other methods and punish. If you power-shield, it's a free grab. If you jump over it, you can fastfall an aerial. Heck, make sure he doesn't throw it out often in the first place. Apply Dash Attack pressure, and make sure to space it so that you can jab him when he tries to OoS Grab. If you get hit by PK Fire, Up B out of it. Also, Ness is trash off-stage.

I never thought of Up-Bing out of PK Fire. For me, I feel too afraid to challenge PK Thunder offstage due to its large knockback if I'm too late to punish it. Do any of G&W's aerials outprioritze PK Thunder? I prefer playing Mario against Ness and I'm still figuring out how to play G&W against Ness.

 

[Timbroslice]

I feel like one of my greatest weapons against sonic is my nair. If you shield a spin dash they normally like to jump which is actually where you want your opponent with game and watch. The reason you don't like sonic is bc he forces you to play his game. You just gotta do it tho. Switch certain things up so sonic doesn't know what you're doing. Throw a piece of bacon, fake him out with G&W fox trot, space with turtle, empty hops just to keep him guessing. Another thing to abuse with sonic is our up air. Just the wind box to keep sonic in the air makes a lot of sonic players really uncomfortable. KO'ing can be difficult so I normally try to read spin dashes or greedy dairs with our usmash. I rely on gimps a lot with game n watch, but its hard to get sonic in those situations. Don't forget a dash away into a pivot fsmash can sneak you some KO's as well.

So just remember, you want him above you. A lot of sonic players panic in this situation and G&W is good at keeping him up there. The longer you can keep him from returning to ground and playing his neutral game the better.

Hope this helps

 

[natethegreat2nd]

I feel like one of my greatest weapons against sonic is my nair. If you shield a spin dash they normally like to jump which is actually where you want your opponent with game and watch. The reason you don't like sonic is bc he forces you to play his game. You just gotta do it tho. Switch certain things up so sonic doesn't know what you're doing. Throw a piece of bacon, fake him out with G&W fox trot, space with turtle, empty hops just to keep him guessing. Another thing to abuse with sonic is our up air. Just the wind box to keep sonic in the air makes a lot of sonic players really uncomfortable. KO'ing can be difficult so I normally try to read spin dashes or greedy dairs with our usmash. I rely on gimps a lot with game n watch, but its hard to get sonic in those situations. Don't forget a dash away into a pivot fsmash can sneak you some KO's as well.

So just remember, you want him above you. A lot of sonic players panic in this situation and G&W is good at keeping him up there. The longer you can keep him from returning to ground and playing his neutral game the better.

Hope this helps

Another risky maneuver I go for is if they Sonic spin roll thingy gets super predictable in its timing, just practice throwing out Hammers when they are charging. I have hit some awesome 9s on rolling Sonics because the move was too predictable. Timing has to be just right though.

 

[NouveauRétro]

Nah, Ness is easy. Don't focus on filling your bucket, focus on avoiding the PK Fire through other methods and punish. If you power-shield, it's a free grab. If you jump over it, you can fastfall an aerial. Heck, make sure he doesn't throw it out often in the first place. Apply Dash Attack pressure, and make sure to space it so that you can jab him when he tries to OoS Grab. If you get hit by PK Fire, Up B out of it. Also, Ness is trash off-stage.

I wouldn't call Ness easy because his aerials do actually compete with Game & Watch's pretty well. Also, the best Nesses I know don't go for PK Fire pressure much. An aerial-heavy Ness has an advantage over GDubs onstage imo. good for you if you get him off the stage though, you deserve that easy kill. I call it even, it would be bad but he's gimpable, which makes any MU better(looking at you, Doug).

 

[Sixell]

Link is definitely one of GW's worst MUs. Link has very little lag in between using projectiles (which forces an aerial apporach with GW's laggy attacks), his aerials cancel the fastest in the entire game, he can jab out of just about anything, he has a long-ranged grab, and many of his moves (even tilts) are kill moves.