From basics to tournaments: Wario's evolutionary potential

[Cold-Water Wash]

Edit: I changed the title to reflect the actual direction the thread has gone.

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I love me some Wario. Seriously. He's the man. I love him so damn much that I've wanted nothing more than to main this god of greed. (Admittedly, this opinion came purely after watching TheReflexWonder beat the crap out of a captain falcon in the most entertaining way possible).

But as of late, I'm losing my religion. I'm running out of pizzazz. I know Wario isn't the flashiest character, but I feel like there's less to strive as a Wario main than other characters. Marth has his Ken combos, spacies have shines, Ike has quick-draw shenanigans, the list goes on. Beyond Wario's bite... what else is there to master with Wario beyond fundamentals?



TL;DR - I've (kinda) mastered Wario's basics... now what?

 

[CyberZixx]

That is quite the broad a question. I have no idea what you play looks like nor am I that great at giving advice either. This game is complex and just because you can't see it, they is probably a to you work on. WIth your character and more importantly the game as a whole/

 

[Cold-Water Wash]

I mean, all the Warios I have ever seen play a generally defensive, bait and punish game. But there doesn't seem much room for flair. I had less emphasis on necessarily my game play, but more for room with Wario mains everywhere. I realize that just because Wario lacks a technically intensive playstyle - like that of any bulky bait and punish character - but I feel like it lacks technicality in such a way that leaves him limited in terms of play styles. Not on a grand sense of like offensive/defensive, but more the nature of pressures and the way in which you interact with your opponent.

Something about him feels... restrained... somehow. I know I'm being super vague, and, in retrospect, this post was probably a bad idea. I guess I am fishing for some sort idea as to how Wario will continue to evolve, just as smash always has. Most other characters have a general area where their handlers must excel in order to be proficient (spacies/falcon/sonic types need players with quick hands and fast reflexes while bowser/ganondorf type players require -at least in my experience- more emphasis on area and approach control). Wario is the only character who's direction I cannot divine.

 

[\Apples]

So, Wario has really sensitive spacing due to his excellent aerial mobility. The devil is in the detail with Wario, how and when you weave is crucial and I think that's where a lot of his depth lies.

Most Wario's I've seen are rather aggressive, actually. Wario can't camp, he has to go in. I wouldn't say bait/punish is Wario's game anymore than it really is any other character's. That's just the nature of all combat.

I'd say more, but I'm not even supposed to be on here right now... at work.

 

[Cold-Water Wash]

So, I guess what you're saying is that - especially in his approach and neutral game - is to be wary of his weaves? To me this seemed like just an aspect of his mobility and hadn't actually given much thought to how and when I weave. It was in my head, obviously, since if you play Wario for any length of time you realize that his aerial mobility is like a swan made out of other, smaller swans made of diamond, but I guess I never really was that cognizant as to the nature of its usage...

 

[SixSaw]

I feel like much of Wario's untapped potential is currently in the maximization of his punishes. Strong Bad is on the forefront of this atm but even he has room to improve.
I recently made a big breakthrough in this regard by simply (temporarily) removing nair from my game entirely. Nair can be a sort of crutch (being his fastest aerial) which is easy to opt for at the expense of other, less "obvious" options which may in fact yield greater reward (fair, uair, bite, etc). That may or may not apply to you, but I think the principle is universal: don't hesitate to leave your comfort zone and explore other possibilites.

If you're looking for 'flair', there's always footstool combos, another area of Wario's game that's still relatively unexplored. Or you could try to find a reliable implementation of the explosive-eat hitbox.
He also has land-canceled SideB shenanigans, which can be pushed beyond the point of usefulness to hilarious extremes if you just want to taunt your opponent. It's possible to get from anywhere to anywhere on WarioWare with only SideB's, for example. SideB metagame is the future.
If you want ridiculously demanding tech, you could try to practice edgecanceling exploits like this. lol

Seriously though, Apples is right. The most important thing you can work on as Wario is your movement (aerial and grounded), spacing, and more generally your ability to apply mental pressure. I think it's important to note that Wario is different from Jigglypuff in this regard, since it sounds like what you're worried about is Wario's playstyle boiling down to a Jiggs-esque monotony. While Jiggs has to apply pressure and bait responses until the opponent makes a punishable one (whiffed attack, usually), Wario is more flexible in the variety of responses he can punish and convert off of, since his toolkit includes an airgrab, tons of mixups, greater techchasing ability, etc, which allow you to be much more proactive ("agressively defensive") with reading, punishing, and conditioning your opponents.

 

[Oro?!]

You learn to do this @ Strong Badam http://youtu.be/ZC9MB2wDzUo?t=7m40s

 

[Cold-Water Wash]

Get that edgecanceling witchcraft away from me. It's unnatural.

What I appreciate most about Wario is the nature of his tech skill. He doesn't require fast fingers, per se, but a fast mind. I'd rather stay away from black magic if it's all the same to you.


(Ironically, Ganondorf is my backup/friendly character)

 

[SixSaw]

You learn to do this @ Strong Badam http://youtu.be/ZC9MB2wDzUo?t=7m40s

...just not anything he did afterwards. lol

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Sixsaw is right, the flashiest you're getting with wario is footstool nonsense. I however don't see how side b nonsense is going to advance the meta game. The fact that it cancels on the ground is good, and the move can catch people off guard, but its so risky on shield that I'd rather not risk it...that's just me though.

 

[Strong Badam]

...just not anything he did afterwards. lol

Mistakes were made...

I feel like much of Wario's untapped potential is currently in the maximization of his punishes. Strong Bad is on the forefront of this atm but even he has room to improve.

Definitely.

If you're looking for 'flair', there's always footstool combos, another area of Wario's game that's still relatively unexplored.

I don't really think there's much left that Reflex and I haven't already explored here. Against people who know what's coming, it's okay. It doesn't do any damage. It has niche applications when your combo ends up above a smaller platform (FoD is heaven for Wario for this among many other reasons). Otherwise, you just give your opponent another chance to guess correctly and escape.

Apples: I play an aggressive Wario because in general it gives my opponent less time to think. I still think Reflex's playstyle is closer to optimal than mine, but I do a lot of things that he doesn't do when it comes to punishes. Of course, a lot of my punishes are only possible because I get hard reads and hit people with moves you're not supposed to hit them with in neutral, but yeah. Camping with jumps and waiting for your opponent to approach badly is prob Wario's best bet in many matchups and is why he loses to characters like Fox/Marth; these characters are allowed to approach poorly (relative to other characters) and be fine.

 

[Strong Badam]

Double post

 

[Cold-Water Wash]

Though we could perhaps see the designation of footstools as "nonsense" compiled with its situational usefulness as a potential for unexpected growth. Not to say that everything nonsensical has potential, but perhaps footstools could evolve to be - while still uncommon and infrequently useful - more widespread as a gameplay mixup or momentum changer.
I also kind of like the concept of Wario being one of the few characters that can actively fit footstools into his moveset for two reasons: footstools actually fit in with the stylistic nature of Wario as a smasher (janky and amusing as well as being unpredictable) and his actual air-based moveset and combos. I guess we shall wait and see as to how he could develop - as with all things - but I am hoping that Wario mains could possibly make footstools their own.

Mind, I have not actually used a footstool in-game, so I am far from an expert on their usefulness and the potential of their usage in competitive play beyond the very few instances I have seen it performed in online matches nor do I have any right to expect advanced usage from something that may, in fact, be far less useful in application than it is in my head.

 

[CyberZixx]

I do not understand the useage for footstool. Can it not be tech'ed away and make it hard to follow up?

 

[\Apples]

Apples: I play an aggressive Wario because in general it gives my opponent less time to think. I still think Reflex's playstyle is closer to optimal than mine, but I do a lot of things that he doesn't do when it comes to punishes. Of course, a lot of my punishes are only possible because I get hard reads and hit people with moves you're not supposed to hit them with in neutral, but yeah. Camping with jumps and waiting for your opponent to approach badly is prob Wario's best bet in many matchups and is why he loses to characters like Fox/Marth; these characters are allowed to approach poorly (relative to other characters) and be fine.

Yep yep. I agree. I actually play kind of right in between you and Reflex. I think your punish game is better and his baiting game is better, but I'm pretty confident in both, just not quite as polished as either of yours.

I agree on those matchups too. Wario loses the option of one of those two approaches against each of those characters, so for the opponent he becomes easier to read because he's more limited. He can't afford to be afraid of Fox so he has to match his aggression, and he can't really outclass Marth in the neutral game either because of Marth's range and speed. Definitely two of his most challenging matchups. BOTH used to be much easier when he had the crouch slide, of which I've expressed before though that I think its removal was a good thing because his matchup spread was just too extreme because of it.

Get that edgecanceling witchcraft away from me. It's unnatural.

What I appreciate most about Wario is the nature of his tech skill. He doesn't require fast fingers, per se, but a fast mind. I'd rather stay away from black magic if it's all the same to you.


(Ironically, Ganondorf is my backup/friendly character)

His tech skill is all in the left thumb, that's why I love him. He feels more... Idk, somehow, more mental to me.

So, in summation: bite, edge cancels, shoulder bash land cancels (honestly I think this is very situational once the opponent learns it), weaving, and footstools if you feel like being a super-nerd.

 

[Strong Badam]

I think he's significantly worse than in 2.6, people are still on the Wario hype train though for some reason. I don't mind him being worse (my goal as a developer is to make sure the game is balanced, not that my characters are top tier) but I wish people would recognize that fact.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I've always found Brawl Wario and PM Wario to be similar in that with enough play, you start to find nuances that improve your combo game in ways that aren't obvious. "If I hit with F-Air at the absolute latest point at 50% damage or higher, it can combo into X, which otherwise doesn't work reliably/requires specific DI from the opponent." That's a little vague, but you're able to feel out how much frame advantage you get in any given situation. This is how shorter strings turn into something much more; when you know the points where you can extend a combo with Jab -> Grab/Neutral-B, or when you can expect to be able to mix people up with either footstool or a quick Neutral-B. It is why the best Wario players look like they're able to carry on combos longer than you're used to seeing.

In a similar vein, Wario's attacks create a lot of situations where the opponent has a chance to respond, but is forced to make a split decision really quickly. They think, "How should I choose to DI from Bite?" or "Should I try to jump immediately after I've been weak F-Thrown?" While they have the ability to get out of it, Wario generally isn't at risk when the opponent guesses correctly, which is nice. However, it is being able to read the opponent's habits and pressure him into doing specific ones that lets Wario tear opponents a new one in a way that is simultaneously effective and embarrassing to your opponent. Perhaps by his guessing wrong the first time he's put in a specific position, he'll try the other option next time it happens...in which case you'll be there to punish that, too. As such, most of Wario's nicest flash, as well as his greatest effectiveness (which is a combination that is rarely found together so consistently) requires a great understanding of the game as a whole and an ability to adapt to your opponents well. Experience and experimentation are both key to that.

I do not understand the useage for footstool. Can it not be tech'ed away and make it hard to follow up?

Wario's horizontal aerial mobility/speed is way higher than a vast majority of the cast, so it's easy for him to give chase. Making the opponent fall in a slower way than something like D-Air with an inability to jump out of it often leads to missed techs, which also helps.

 

[\Apples]

I've always found Brawl Wario and PM Wario to be similar in that with enough play, you start to find nuances that improve your combo game in ways that aren't obvious. "If I hit with F-Air at the absolute latest point at 50% damage or higher, it can combo into X, which otherwise doesn't work reliably/requires specific DI from the opponent." That's a little vague, but you're able to feel out how much frame advantage you get in any given situation. This is how shorter strings turn into something much more; when you know the points where you can extend a combo with Jab -> Grab/Neutral-B, or when you can expect to be able to mix people up with either footstool or a quick Neutral-B. It is why the best Wario players look like they're able to carry on combos longer than you're used to seeing.

In a similar vein, Wario's attacks create a lot of situations where the opponent has a chance to respond, but is forced to make a split decision really quickly. They think, "How should I choose to DI from Bite?" or "Should I try to jump immediately after I've been weak F-Thrown?" While they have the ability to get out of it, Wario generally isn't at risk when the opponent guesses correctly, which is nice. However, it is being able to read the opponent's habits and pressure him into doing specific ones that lets Wario tear opponents a new one in a way that is simultaneously effective and embarrassing to your opponent. Perhaps by his guessing wrong the first time he's put in a specific position, he'll try the other option next time it happens...in which case you'll be there to punish that, too. As such, most of Wario's nicest flash, as well as his greatest effectiveness (which is a combination that is rarely found together so consistently) requires a great understanding of the game as a whole and an ability to adapt to your opponents well. Experience and experimentation are both key to that.



Wario's horizontal aerial mobility/speed is way higher than a vast majority of the cast, so it's easy for him to give chase. Making the opponent fall in a slower way than something like D-Air with an inability to jump out of it often leads to missed techs, which also helps.

Well said. He is a character who can really allow a player to shine who has become intimate with him. He has depth but in a very different way from say, Fox. Getting into detail on how it is exactly they differ is touchy, however.