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Free damage on landing opponents, Lucas style

NESSBOUNDER

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
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somewhere sunny
Ok, so we probably all know that whenever a character lands normally from a jump or whatever, there is a split second when they hit the ground, approximately one or two frames, where they are completely vulnerable.

If you've ever played a CPU Dedede or Bowser, and tried to air dodge past their up smash while you were coming down, you'd know what I'm talking about. Even if you are completely invulnerable when you touch the ground, the moment your character makes contact, they will be vulnerable for a very short period of time.

If the opponent already has a lingering hitbox in place, then the landing character will be hit.

Lucas has two moves which are excellent at catching landing opponents for free damage. No, not up smash. It's way too slow to use effectively for this purpose. These moves are PK Fire and running attack.

as a projectile, PK fire travels just slow enough to be able to accomplish this very effectively, and it also has the range to do it. Timing is the key of course, but as long as the bullet is overlapping the opponent just as they land, it will hit them and be completely unblockable.

Running attack works for a different reason: it has awesome range and the hitbox stays out for a really long time. Most of the time, an opponent who's used their second jump and is trying to land will try to either air dodge to avoid being attacked, or use an attack of their own. There isn't much that can get past Lucas's running attack when it comes to range, especially since he lunges forwards. Time it right, and you'll have no problem landing it this way.

And yeah, of course you can try a running up smash if you're feeling frisky, but it just isn't as easy to land using this method as the other two.

PK thunder 2 works, but is hard to time. Likewise PK thunder itself is just a bit too slow. PK Freeze would be great for this, but the hitbox doesn't stay out for long enough. You have to be VERY precise, which is just impractical.
 

Earthbound360

Smash Hero
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Hmm the dash attack too eh? I never thought it lasted long enough to do this. And Im guessing since it pops opponents upwards, you can keep doing this until they hit you correct?
 

NESSBOUNDER

Smash Master
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Messages
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somewhere sunny
Hmm the dash attack too eh? I never thought it lasted long enough to do this. And Im guessing since it pops opponents upwards, you can keep doing this until they hit you correct?
Yeah, the Dash attack is like a battering ram. It actually stays out for ages and has deceptively good range, so it's perfect for this.
 

Blackbelt

Smash Lord
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Mar 29, 2008
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't the D-Smash be useful for this?


I mean, odds are in your favor that it'll hit, right?
 

ParanoidDrone

Smash Master
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Murphy's Law states that the opponent will always land during the few frames between individual DSmash hits, except when he won't, but these situations will either a) be too rare to consider or b) when you meant to do anything other than DSmash.

Good stuff on PK Fire and the dash attack, though. I never would have guessed they were ideal.
 

Phelix08

Smash Apprentice
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Jan 12, 2007
Messages
109
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Rolla, MO
You'd have to time the grab perfectly to take advantage of this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I don't think the downsmash works too great in this application either. You would want something moving (so that you don't get hit if they decide to do an aerial attack instead of dodging or something.)

Edit: I'm drawing a complete blank. You're not able to slide using downsmashes, are you? If you can, then that would work just fine.
 

NESSBOUNDER

Smash Master
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Nair works well but it doesn't have the necessary range or priority. I've had a bit of luck with Dsmsh, but positioning it is much too hard unless the opponent is airdodging right into you.
 

TechnoMonster

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
836
F-air and F-tilt also have good duration and range for this... I use grab a lot in this situation because I mained Link in Melee, so whenever my opponent landed out of a double jump it was essentially easy to time a free grab due to Link's grab range. Its just timing.
 

IDK

Smash Lord
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what about the down smash? I use it for fast characters, approaching sonics/ some others, and sidesteppers too. same idea.

EDIT: oh yeah and a technique i use to counter this is to air dodge right before i hit, keep holding shield, then tap the control stick as i hit the ground to either roll or sidestep.
 

GimmeAnFSharp

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
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291
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Boston
I abuse this all too often only because I die from this lag effect too often...

I prefer PK Fire. If my opponent is doing a short-hop aerial approach, you can B-stick a PK Fire at them (while jumping away) and they'll have no possible way to dodge it given the aforementioned approach was in place.

It often forces my opponents to stay in the air, which is always a plus. If I can make them uncomfortable, than I've most certainly accomplished something.
 

NESSBOUNDER

Smash Master
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somewhere sunny
what about the down smash? I use it for fast characters, approaching sonics/ some others, and sidesteppers too. same idea.

EDIT: oh yeah and a technique i use to counter this is to air dodge right before i hit, keep holding shield, then tap the control stick as i hit the ground to either roll or sidestep.
Sidestep has 2 frames if vulnerability before you become invulnerable. Roll can have as much as 4 for some characters, so this is hardly a counter to this technique.
 

Jellyfishn

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
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Utah
Hmmm... these seem to work very well. Good findings!

Also, those who said they like to grab, DONT MISS!
 

Chuey

Smash Rookie
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Jun 16, 2008
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6
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Hull, England
I always use running attack, and usually it's quite easy to lead into a neutral combo.

Thist technique does seems useful, but downsmash is probably easier to land, on the contrary it could be surprising as down smash may be the obvious attack to use.
 

Inraika-Zero

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
58
Location
New Brunswick, Canada.
Sidestep has 2 frames if vulnerability before you become invulnerable. Roll can have as much as 4 for some characters, so this is hardly a counter to this technique.
If the Damage in smash bros could acheive over 9000... what do you think the damage Sandbag would have been on nessbounder's Ness / Lucas Sig...

Anyways.. Ontopic:

I find that this is a good way to gain extra damage.. but Its more fun just to stand back and Spam PK freezes to oncoming opponenets...:laugh:
 
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