Frame Data: King Dedede's Attacks on Shield

[Ssbm_Jag]

Some of these might be off by a frame or two. All of these assume you hit the opponent's shield with the first active frame of your attack.
Jab 1:-23
Jab 2:-12
Rapid Jab Finisher:-37
Dash Attack:-29
F-tilt:-22
U-tilt:-26
D-tilt:-24
F-smash (Late):-21
U-smash:-40
D-smash:-29
N-air:-25 (short hop autocancelled)/ -8 (landed 1 frame before hitting ground)
F-air:Not sure if this would ever be thrown out on a grounded opponent, but it's frame advanatage is extremely dreadful when landing with it. On Battlefield this autocancels on platforms if you full hop and buffer the move from below the platforms.
D-air:Not worth hitting a shielding opponent.
B-air:-12 (sh-ac)

I guess this frame data just goes to show how safe Dedede has to play. I don't play Dedede, but I have the respect!

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Oh yeah, nothing he has is truly safe on shield. I think some aerials like bair and dair are like semisafe because you can possibly jump away again before they can react most of the time, but I've been punished on almost every move Dedede has by an opponent's OOS over the lifespan of the game. It's definitely the most annoying thing about being in love with the King.

But I still love him

 

[Revolution6 aka alterego]

F-smash is actually completely safe on sheild due to raw hitlag. If f-smash touches anything that isn't just the air and the ground it's not punishable.

 

[Soul Train]

F-smash is actually completely safe on sheild due to raw hitlag. If f-smash touches anything that isn't just the air and the ground it's not punishable.

Unfortunately that's just not true. Faster characters can easily punish you - such as Sonic, Falcon, and Sheik - at any distance.

 

[Jdawg26]

I gotta know, how did you get this data? It seems roughly correct but the methodology is key.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

I calculated shieldstun values for all his moves.

 

[Jdawg26]

Is there a formula?

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

Jdawg26

The formula for shieldstun is (Damage/1.75)+2.

Here's how I calculated AC back-air:
Dedede jumps and buffers the move during jump squat.
B-air comes out frame 17 and hits a shielding opponent. It says on Kuroganehammer.com dedede has 38 frames in a short hop, meaning after the B-air, Dedede will have 23 frames of total lag if you don't fast fall afterwards (if you fast fall you'll incur hard landing lag: 6 frames instead of 2; 21 frames of air lag+2 frames of soft landing lag=23). Dedede does not land on the 38th frame from my own testing as he can buffer a jump right before landing.
B-air does 16 damage/1.75=9.14+2=11 frames of shield stun (you always round down)

23 frames of total lag-11 frames of lag for the opponent in shield is -12. If the the opponent drops shield which takes 7 frames iirc. The move is -5 on shield.

PS: It's very good to calculate these things for hard match-ups dedede faces. For example, against Mario (I main Wario), I can't literally ever shield-grab mario unless he dash attacks, no-autocancel d-airs, and jab 3, because they're the only things that Mario has lag on that might not be used as a cross up tool. Dedede, as you probably know, has low traction, meaning he'll probably slide farther than Wario (very high traction) in shield when hit (shield pushback I *think* is directly related to shieldstun), so shield grabbing might not work for Dedede where it might for Wario, but it still might because I think dedede has better good grab range. I usually just test these out in game.

 

[Jdawg26]

Cool! That's exactly the info I was looking for. Thanks a ton, time to hit the lab again.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

This is completely random, but recently Reflex found that Wario's command grab on a whiff has less lag if you start the move in the air (5 less frames Wario will commit to keeping his mouth open), you might want to see if this applies for Dedede's inhale.

 

[Furret]

Jdawg26

The formula for shieldstun is (Damage/1.75)+2.

Here's how I calculated AC back-air:
Dedede jumps and buffers the move during jump squat.
B-air comes out frame 17 and hits a shielding opponent. It says on Kuroganehammer.com dedede has 38 frames in a short hop, meaning after the B-air, Dedede will have 23 frames of total lag if you don't fast fall afterwards (if you fast fall you'll incur hard landing lag: 6 frames instead of 2; 21 frames of air lag+2 frames of soft landing lag=23). Dedede does not land on the 38th frame from my own testing as he can buffer a jump right before landing.
B-air does 16 damage/1.75=9.14+2=11 frames of shield stun (you always round down)

23 frames of total lag-11 frames of lag for the opponent in shield is -12. If the the opponent drops shield which takes 7 frames iirc. The move is -5 on shield.

PS: It's very good to calculate these things for hard match-ups dedede faces. For example, against Mario (I main Wario), I can't literally ever shield-grab mario unless he dash attacks, no-autocancel d-airs, and jab 3, because they're the only things that Mario has lag on that might not be used as a cross up tool. Dedede, as you probably know, has low traction, meaning he'll probably slide farther than Wario (very high traction) in shield when hit (shield pushback I *think* is directly related to shieldstun), so shield grabbing might not work for Dedede where it might for Wario, but it still might because I think dedede has better good grab range. I usually just test these out in game.

that's an awful lot of work compared to just typing in numbers
https://trinket.io/python/35c2ec074b?toggleCode=true

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

Furret , is there a quicker way? :O

 

[Furret]

click

Furret , is there a quicker way? :O

the

that's an awful lot of work compared to just typing in numbers
https://trinket.io/python/35c2ec074b?toggleCode=true

link ^

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

Furret , I don't see much in the link. If you're just telling me to learn python, a formula or algorithm won't give you everything you need to calculate frame advantage.

Nvm, it finally loaded on the third try. Good stuff.

 

[Furret]

Nvm, it finally loaded on the third try. Good stuff.