Fox's Never Ending Abuse

[_X_]

Now recently and not so recently I've been smashing with my friends (more so of late). I'd say in the advanced game I've got the highest level of skill but I don't seem to win as often as I'd like. I know without vid it'd be hard for you to help but I'd just like to see what you guys can do.

One of my friends has recently found Peach and, as a Fox player, this was a nasty surprise. I never knew the Down Smash was so br00tal, I was impolitely enlightened. That said I think his discovery of Peach's Down smash (which he spams just about as much as he spams his turnips) I found my game tighten. My SHFFLS had gotten way tighter (spec' on the L-cancel), and my game had gotten way better. I even learned to SHDL!

My other friend (lives father away and thus I play him a lot less) had been an avid Roy (and sometimes Marth) player but a while ago switched to the Ice Climbers. It's not this guys game that's too scary (not that he can't worbble pretty well) but it's the raggin' on Fox. He keeps callin' all of Fox's moves cheaps and insists he is extremely easy to play. Every time I get a shine spike in I get called cheap. When I laser spam I get called cheap (maybe fair enough). Either of them realize it takes a lot of skill to play Fox, he's touchy, fast as hell and has one of the most advanced games in Melee. I sometimes even get the "Well Fox is on the top of the tier list" remark.

That said I did have some more Fox related questions. Even with their cynicality on my laser spamming I'd still like to make that part of my game tighter, any tips.

AND, ignorant as I am, I'd like to know some thing: Is it at any time more affective to just keep pressing B to laser on the gornd rather then SHDL or SHL? At times (and a lot during our 1v1v1 free for all matches) when they're both fighting each other and have left Fox to his own divices, I have the chance to get some wicked damage in just spamming the laser on the ground. It seems a lot quicker then my bothering to SHDL (and yes, I'm aware of the lag difference).

Sorry 'bout the long thread.

 

[Shadydayz]

sorry im new, lol. I 2 am a fox player and tried the whole SHFFL thing and dont think it makes much difference to being on the ground. The thing is, u no how satisfying it is to catch someone recovering by using fox's down b. But when someone gets me with it. its the most frustrating thing in the world!! But it does yake a lot of skill to do so tell ur mates to try it for themselves if they think its so cheap then laugh at them when they cant do it.

 

[_X_]

sorry im new, lol. I 2 am a fox player and tried the whole SHFFL thing and dont think it makes much difference to being on the ground. The thing is, u no how satisfying it is to catch someone recovering by using fox's down b. But when someone gets me with it. its the most frustrating thing in the world!! But it does yake a lot of skill to do so tell ur mates to try it for themselves if they think its so cheap then laugh at them when they cant do it.

SHFFL I have no problem with, and it dose make A LOT of difference from being on the ground... for the most part as you cannot do aerial attacks on the ground

And yeah, the shine spike is crazy AND it's pretty hard to do... *******s need to lrn 2 respect.

 

[v3x?]

Im not totally sure what you're asking, but if you need help with fox against peach, especially a downsmashing peach, you need to learn drillshine combo's. Abusing the shffl'd nair combo, nair to grab uthrow uair spam. Bottem line is, fox can be cheaper to peach than peach can be to fox.

You obviously know a fair few advanced techs, so mix up your approaches, fake outs to get him to down smash. Dashdance through his range and get him to make mistakes. Then go for that combo.

 

[Oskurito]

Those moves that your friends call cheap are in fact cheap, but that's why fox is what he is...
If you're still so mad cause they call you cheap do something else like the illusion combo on the ICs or flatland infinite peach 0-very high percentage or death.

EDIT: Only spam the blaster without shdl or shl when you think they'll not come otherwise you can get seriously punished for it. Ah and only shdl on the characters that can be shdl otherwise don't bother doing it unless you want to show-off your skills

 

[4 Aces]

Shine spiking and laser camping is technically cheap, but shine spiking does take quite some skill to get in. I mean, when they know it's coming, then it's harder for you to hit with it. They need to stop complaining and just find a way to counter it. Learn to waveshine combo all the characters in the game (Thunder's combo, etc.). Then get them to play Fox and chaingrab them and Thunder's combo them to hell. Maybe you can even dthrow them for an instant KO. That should teach them.

 

[_X_]

Is tr00th boys.

Now with the laser camping I'm often brought to wave dash to the other side of the stage (FD) and shdl until the approach we melee (and I often punish for a hasty approach) then I WD to the other side and repeat. ... Okay well, that is kinda cheap, but it works. What other ways can I affectively laser spam?

Oh and I'm pretty sure it's well know Fox is one of the hardest characters to play well, am I right?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

X, what your friends are calling cheap is anything that is good. if u care that they are crybabies and dont want you to be good or play a good char... then dont. and you might as well leave these boards because you will probably get better by reading them.

 

[Oskurito]

Oh and I'm pretty sure it's well know Fox is one of the hardest characters to play well, am I right?

Yeah, I think no one(intelligent) will argue against that fox is the hardest to master

 

[Deleted member]

Tell them to deal lol... I've been called cheap many times when I shine and laser spam (the latter I don't do much)... but for most characters, shls will do you better than shdls, unless you are indeed showing off lol... then you can throw in some short hopped reverse lasers too ... but if your opponent is approaching you, shl away... if they're waiting for you, spam lasers on the ground until his shield breaks or he approaches you, where you will proceed to shield grab -> nasty aerials... so it depends... practice both and see what works against who

 

[Sudai]

Instead of WDing away and SHDLing, try to do running reverse SHDLs. It'll get you to the other side faster and you do damage the entire way. If those are too hard, just try retreating SHDLs (holding back after you press B so you DI backwards as you shoot forwards)

As for the DSmashes, don't hold down. Only way they'll get more than 1 hit with it is if you're at 0% or approaching from below a platform.

 

[ShoeThief]

Sorry for this inquiry, but do you go to TJ? One of your habits (replacing o's with 00, e.g. br00tal, tr00th) reminds me of someone I know who plays Fox at my school (I don't know if he goes to smashboards).

As for your friends, don't worry about them calling you cheap. After all, Fox is the hardest char to master (maybe not but I don't feel like discussing). As someone else said (and I'm sorry for using this)
Using something that's easy but doesn't work: Noobish
Using something that easy, but works: Smart
Using something that's hard that doesn't work: Dumb
Using something that's hard and works: Pro

 

[_X_]

... SHL away? With the DI you mean... HMMM... sounds crazy... anyone got any vids to help me get the visual?

AHAH nah ShoeThief (assuming it's some kind of school), I'm from Australia. But br00tal none the less. And I loved the "Using something" quote.

Thanks for all your help thus far boys, you're all wicked.

 

[RaynEX]

Use the SHL. It allows you to move move much faster...because of the FF after the shot. You're more of a mobile turret than you are with the SHDL. I can guarantee you that your opponent would most likely make a hasty charge at a quick, spammy SHLing Fox. The "lure-them-to-you-with-your-laser-for-combos" factor is paramount, and ridiculously easy to abuse when running around SHLing and reserve SHLing on stages.

 

[4 Aces]

Use the SHL. It allows you to move move much faster...because of the FF after the shot. You're more of a mobile turret than you are with the SHDL. I can guarantee you that your opponent would most likely make a hasty charge at a quick, spammy SHLing Fox. The "lure-them-to-you-with-your-laser-for-combos" factor is paramount, and ridiculously easy to abuse when running around SHLing and reserve SHLing on stages.

......but......I love to SHDL, even if it means to get screwed over in matches. Ok, that last part was fake, but I like the SHDL. You're right though; one laser is enough. Is there ever a time when SHDL'ing is useful/more useful?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

IMO, SHDL is always more effective. SHDL has a lot better laser output than SHL. in straight up spamming i think you will "lap them" per say probably around 4 rounds (the SHL will finish 4th as SHDL finishes 3rd) but thats 4 lasers from SHL and 6 from SHDL. the only time you really need to laser is for camping purposes anyways, and SHDL is definitely better for that. only time to use SHL is if u can AIM it so it hits them, but SHDL wouldnt hit both lasers. if you were close and wanted to tack on an extra 3%, 90% of the time an aerial would be a better move.

 

[Frozenserpent]

The benefits of SHL laser for SHDL is that there is less time that you are vulnerable. As a ganon player, I find that several times people playing with fox and falco would get careless wtih SHLing and get hit by an aerial. Just because landing cancels all the lag doesn't mean there is no lag to shooting lasers. So there are definitely situations where you want to SHL instead of SHDL. Besides that, SHL is a lot easier, anyways.

 

[RaynEX]

:s.

I agree.

 

[_X_]

The benefits of SHL laser for SHDL is that there is less time that you are vulnerable. As a ganon player, I find that several times people playing with fox and falco would get careless wtih SHLing and get hit by an aerial. Just because landing cancels all the lag doesn't mean there is no lag to shooting lasers. So there are definitely situations where you want to SHL instead of SHDL. Besides that, SHL is a lot easier, anyways.

Here my problem, I find SHDL easier to do consistently. And sometime my SHL is way too high and goes over the shorter plays heads. I always know my SHDL is going to hit even the shortest characters. Alas I am inclined to think SHL is much faster in terms or recovery to avoid punishment. I can't seem to get it right... any practice tips?


Oh and I'd like some tips from moving back while shl/shdling across the stage (if that made sense...)

 

[Goldkirby]

Oh and I'd like some tips from moving back while shl/shdling across the stage (if that made sense...)

Dash back, jump, flick the stick forward, let go of the stick, press b, fast fall. That's how I do RSHLs.

 

[RaynEX]

He beat me to the post. BUt yea, thats how you're supposed to do it. Just takes practice.

 

[_X_]

Oh, that's kinda what I meant.... but...


What I mean is... if you can tilt the sick in the opposite direction to which you're shooting you if keep, eg., SHDLing and can more in the direction froward or back while jumping and shooting.. I'd just like some tips on that... It's not hard to do it moving froward just gets a little tricky on the retreat backwards. I'm prone to turn around mid.

You guys know what I'm talking about?

 

[RaynEX]

Um. Make sure you dash before you jump. The dash gives you the momentum you need to execute the full-length SHL. Alot of times, back when i first started using it, i'd hit jump before I dashed, therefore only utilizing the d.i. part of the shl. It doesn't make u go too far.

What GoldKirby said was right on the money.

 

[4 Aces]

Oh, that's kinda what I meant.... but...


What I mean is... if you can tilt the sick in the opposite direction to which you're shooting you if keep, eg., SHDLing and can more in the direction froward or back while jumping and shooting.. I'd just like some tips on that... It's not hard to do it moving froward just gets a little tricky on the retreat backwards. I'm prone to turn around mid.

You guys know what I'm talking about?

Um...if I'm not missing anything, then GoldKirby was right on the mark. I don't know how else to explain it. If your answer is still not answered, then maybe you should elaborate your question a little.

 

[kerploplesteesh]

lollll ground laser gannondorf on fd in the beginning of the match if hes on the opposite side of the stage. >_<

 

[4 Aces]

lollll ground laser gannondorf on fd in the beginning of the match if hes on the opposite side of the stage. >_<

LOL! That's so abusive! I like it. ^_^

 

[RaynEX]

I tried that today.

He walked up to me, just a bit away from my Fox.

Then he down-b'ed'.

 

[4 Aces]

Did the lasers disappear by the purple aura on Ganon's foot?

 

[RaynEX]

no...

he just killed me.