Fox vs Sheik - how bad is it really?

[Confuture]

Sheik's bad matchup vs Fox has lead many sheik mains to abandon the character in favor of other characters who more easily deal with fox. Mew2King rarely plays sheik fox, Plup switches between sheik and samus, and shroomed is starting to side main marth to deal with him. Is the fox matchup honestly so bad that the top sheiks don't stand a chance unless they change characters? It feels like in the new 20XX age, sheik will become invalidated because of her ****ty fox matchup. She has to work so hard for **** other charaters are just given.

VS fox Crouch cancel forces sheik to try and fish for grabs. Besides spaced fair and downsmash there isn't much sheik can do to a grounded fox. Even when sheik gets a grab to try and counterplay she is rewarded for her neutral by....having to do an extremely difficult tech chase that will kill her if she messes up. I feel like sheik has to read fox over and over just to stand a chance or get enough backthrow cheese to make it even. And if you can't shielddrop good luck beating fox. He barely has to do anything

I think this is why most top sheiks are abandoning sheik for the fox matchup. it honestly feels like i'm playing on hard mode when I can just pick marth or peach or fox ditto. What can sheiks do to improve this?

 

[taz3141]

The hardest part of the fox matchup, in my opinion, is when fox is at low percent. After fox is at high enough percent to be knocked down by dash attack and ftilt you get way more options. The trick is getting to that point. You already listed grab as a way to get percent. However you neglected to mention needles. Needles are very good at racking up percent and disrupting movement. A fully charged set of needles does 15% unstaled. It is definitely a struggle to get the first few percent but after that the game opens up a lot. I think the fox matchup is not as bad as people make it out to be. At the highest level it may be awful but at the level of a vast majority of players Sheik definitely has the tools to get the job done consistently.

 

[Scroll]

a full set of needles can actually do 18% depending on how far away they are thrown from (the farther the more damage)

The important thing to learn about getting fox from 0 to knockdown is to know what is "real" and what isn't.
And only go for the "Real" things and or chose the gamles on purpose.
Turns out your options are extremely limited because Fox can cc shine almost anything you can do
Your only real options are spaced aerials -> dash away. Late Fair, Late Nair and Late Bair.

Now if fox is in the air and committed it's another story (he is not on the ground and can't crouch).
Ftilt, Rising Nair, Bair and Fair can all be spaced/ and or fully drifted - in a way that won't get you punished directly.
Same goes for Shield Drop Fair, Upair, Nair and Bair

Having said that, you can get away with some stuff that aren't "real" if they aren't prepared (holding down)
Such as AC Fair -> Dsmash/Ftilt/Uptilt or even grab

 

[Another Player]

Sheik is the ultimate defender in many cases. Hope Fox slips up and edgeguard to death. My only hope winning against strong Foxes. Shiek tends to live longer at low percentages enough to set it up imo. My experience is practical and not top level.

 

[aujory]

Fox Controls neutral against Sheik at low percent's because she doesn't have access to tilts and needs to find grab or an aerial to put fox at low percent.
You need to be defensive and almost try to camp a little bit, Sheiks like Spark and Captain Faceroll rely on cc to get grabs against fox and that's why the matchup makes people switch to another character.