Fox vs Samus and Marth questions

[Dekuschrub]

hellooooo. I play fox annddd i was wondering about some specific things about samus matchups because i was recently rocked by a samus. it was pathetic

all samus' ccs pretty much everthing. at low percent i went in for drillshine-> grab to upthrow etc but was i just missing my l cancel cuz he was just D smashing me right out of it. Also what are the percents that upthrowing into Uair doesnt work cuz samus can just bomb away. what are good counterpick stages against samus? I go with FD and stadium a lot cuz i can stay reallllyyy far away and laser to make them approach, but i have trouble on FoD and story, as well as like rainbow cruise? Also for edgeguarding i pretty much stay on the ledge and drop down to try and shine the grapple, is there a better way to edgeguard samus?

For marth i would like to know the specifics about his grabs. I know about the chaingrab upthrow but lately my friend has been throwing me forward and back and are there any specific DI's or teching at certain percents taht i need to worry about because i know you can get Bthrowed to tipper if you dont tech but i could have sworn that one time i Di'd away or something and he got a free tipper becasue i didnt even hit the ground, is that possible? For edgeguarding marth i again pretty much get on the edge and try to sneak in a Bair hop or force him to go on the platform. Now a lot he is doing his UpB early to try and knock me off so im forced to do my roll early... Would it be possible to ledge hop and grab real fast to get more invince frames to not get knocked off then ledge hop up again to own him? lol idk about that last part haha

andddd just some random stuff...
for grabbing falco what are the chaingrab percents...
what percent is peach too high to not U air out of a non DI'd uthrow and a DI'd one
are there certain percent that the Nair->shine-> grab/upsmash (depending on the char) starts working on chars, and is it different between different characters? (Mainly for Marth/CF/Peach/Shiek)
I get shield grabbed like crazy against ice climbers... Am i not L cancelling properly into the double shield or can they always do it if you hit both shields (mainly for foxes Nair->shine)
at 0% what is the best way to handle ****** a falcon or shiek that you just upthrowed, if they dont DI it or if they do DI it, like u air... usmash...u tilt.. which is the best?
if you shine Gdorf right by the edge and he falls off... is it always possible to wave off after him and shine him again?

uhhh thats all i can think of for now... answer whatever you know? please help lol




any other tips would be sweet as well. thanks

 

[Lixivium]

For edgeguarding marth i again pretty much get on the edge and try to sneak in a Bair hop or force him to go on the platform. Now a lot he is doing his UpB early to try and knock me off so im forced to do my roll early... Would it be possible to ledge hop and grab real fast to get more invince frames to not get knocked off then ledge hop up again to own him? lol idk about that last part haha

Use the light shield trick and see how he deals with it - you won't be in danger of getting Dolphin-Slashed off the edge. Depending on how early he starts the Dolphin Slash, you could always ledgehop a B-Air, Up-Air, or even ledgehop -> land -> U-Smash.

If you have to stall more than once on the ledge then you're grabbing it too early. Firefox stall is probably the safest option.

I get shield grabbed like crazy against ice climbers... Am i not L cancelling properly into the double shield or can they always do it if you hit both shields (mainly for foxes Nair->shine)

LOL I don't remember doing this, you must be talking about Zig's Ice Climbers.
It's possible to SHFFL through the double shield and shine safely, but the timing is different if Nana is lightshielding.

 

[Fefnir Cerveau]

Uh, feeling lazy, so I'll wrap it up fast.

CCing Samus can hit you before your shine comes out from the drill. They mostly use dsmash, so that's probably what's wrong. Don't uthrow Samus cuz she doesn't get enough stun time to get hit by anything. I throw them forward(usually) since I call follow up with a short/full jump nair. Don't pick Dreamland and Fox should do okay. I like Stadium, since I can infinite them. And edgeguarding Samus is situational. Whatever works then. Don't be predictable.

If that Marth has only that single way of coming back, shine him from a ledgehop or whatever. You can also come up before he uB's and dsmash him or something. My friend does this too, and it works pretty well, but you get around it after trying stuff out.

0% upthrow on falcon and sheik huh? Utilt if they don't DI. JC upsmash or short hop uair if they do(I don't fast fall the uair). Again, situational and whatever works.

If the Ganon doesn't grab the ledge, you should be able to follow him off and shine. Or at least wavedash out and shine him at the ledge. I usally run/walk it off.

 

[Hylian]

hellooooo. I play fox annddd i was wondering about some specific things about samus matchups because i was recently rocked by a samus. it was pathetic

Samus can be a beast sometimes.

all samus' ccs pretty much everthing. at low percent i went in for drillshine-> grab to upthrow etc but was i just missing my l cancel cuz he was just D smashing me right out of it. Also what are the percents that upthrowing into Uair doesnt work cuz samus can just bomb away. what are good counterpick stages against samus? I go with FD and stadium a lot cuz i can stay reallllyyy far away and laser to make them approach, but i have trouble on FoD and story, as well as like rainbow cruise? Also for edgeguarding i pretty much stay on the ledge and drop down to try and shine the grapple, is there a better way to edgeguard samus?

Yeah..play a samus..and it will CC. You cannot get around this. You need to bait them to attack and get them in their lag or get grabs off. Samus is really hard to combo with fox because she is floaty..she is the third heaviest character and doesn't die easily either. She cannot be waveshined or flatland infinited but she can be wall infinited. You cannot at any percent Up throw uair her if she knows how to DI. If you up throw her I would reccomend double jumping and bairing her assuming you can. The samus may still expect you to uair and DI accordingly to that which will will suck when you bair her. For samus I mean.

As for stages...Stop picking FD. Final Destination is one of Samus best stages and I wouldn't reccomend it against her. Stadium is fine for the most part. Don't pick battlefield either. Actually..samus really has an advantage when it comes to stages..Dreamland she doesn't die easily..same with FoD and DK64... On dreamland you need to laser..alot..make the samus frustrated. The stage is big enough so that you can avoid her missles easily enough. Remember never to shine any of samu's projectiles except maybe her charge shot in certain situations. She will abuse you if you shine her missles because they create lag on your shine allowing her to dair you which usually leads to a fsmash. Stages like Yoshi's story are good if you are good offensivly..don't give samus room to do much because she has some nasty combos on fox. Overall make sure you are playing smart and frustrate the samus as much as possible. A mistake from samus can mean death for her. Also samus is very hard to edge guard..if you are hanging on the edge watch out for her grapple and if she is below you be careful of her *** cancling into an up B or uair/sex kick...

For marth i would like to know the specifics about his grabs. I know about the chaingrab upthrow but lately my friend has been throwing me forward and back and are there any specific DI's or teching at certain percents taht i need to worry about because i know you can get Bthrowed to tipper if you dont tech but i could have sworn that one time i Di'd away or something and he got a free tipper becasue i didnt even hit the ground, is that possible? For edgeguarding marth i again pretty much get on the edge and try to sneak in a Bair hop or force him to go on the platform. Now a lot he is doing his UpB early to try and knock me off so im forced to do my roll early... Would it be possible to ledge hop and grab real fast to get more invince frames to not get knocked off then ledge hop up again to own him? lol idk about that last part haha

Ahh marth..and his deadly increably long grab range. Ew. And be careful..a lot of marths will be chaingrabbing you and then out of no where back throw you and you will DI it wrong and get tippered. I would reccomend slieght DI when you are being chaingrabbed because this will make the marth pivot and if he does b throw you can DI correctly. And you won't be tippered if he pivots a fsmash. Hopefully. As for edgeguarding...Try lightsheild edgehogging if it looks nessasary..but if you can just edgehog do that. You can shine spike the marth without worry if you gain invincibilty from grabbing the edge. Try firefox stalling to grab it and gain the invincibity.

andddd just some random stuff...
for grabbing falco what are the chaingrab percents...
what percent is peach too high to not U air out of a non DI'd uthrow and a DI'd one
are there certain percent that the Nair->shine-> grab/upsmash (depending on the char) starts working on chars, and is it different between different characters? (Mainly for Marth/CF/Peach/Shiek)
I get shield grabbed like crazy against ice climbers... Am i not L cancelling properly into the double shield or can they always do it if you hit both shields (mainly for foxes Nair->shine)
at 0% what is the best way to handle ****** a falcon or shiek that you just upthrowed, if they dont DI it or if they do DI it, like u air... usmash...u tilt.. which is the best?
if you shine Gdorf right by the edge and he falls off... is it always possible to wave off after him and shine him again?

For falco..start at 0..and keep going till you can tell you are not going to be able to grab him again..then upsmash or uair....I don't remember the exact percent he can break out...I think it is around 30% if he DI's perfectly he can shine you out..I'm not positive though.

For peachs..I don't really remember I can just usually tell the distances correctly...

For ganondorf...if they don't DI inwards and grab the edge then yeah its always possible. I just walk off though.

 

[Jazzness]

Against climbers, you have to consider their double-shield (one-big, one small, or two small, or two big) as you try to jump kick them. Check Cunning's guide on Fox for that matchup, it's one of his specialties.

 

[Coen]

hellooooo. I play fox annddd i was wondering about some specific things about samus matchups because i was recently rocked by a samus. it was pathetic

all samus' ccs pretty much everthing. at low percent i went in for drillshine-> grab to upthrow etc but was i just missing my l cancel cuz he was just D smashing me right out of it. Also what are the percents that upthrowing into Uair doesnt work cuz samus can just bomb away. what are good counterpick stages against samus? I go with FD and stadium a lot cuz i can stay reallllyyy far away and laser to make them approach, but i have trouble on FoD and story, as well as like rainbow cruise? Also for edgeguarding i pretty much stay on the ledge and drop down to try and shine the grapple, is there a better way to edgeguard samus?

Samus shouldn't be able to hit you if you L-cancel correctly. Try waveshine to Nair Also, Samus can get out of your upthrow upair relatively easy just watch out for those bombs. If you predict he's gonna lay one, do an empty shorthop/fulljump with fastfall or just wait until she laid the bomb. That way you can Up-air/Bair her in the lag of her bomb. Stadium and Yoshi Story are your best counterpicks, as they somewhat eliminate her awesome recovery. Don't ever go Rainbow Cruise or D64 against Samus. Edgeguard Samus with well timed Shines and Bairs, maybe reflecting or jumping into her bombs to disrupt her bomb recovery works too at some moments.

For marth i would like to know the specifics about his grabs. I know about the chaingrab upthrow but lately my friend has been throwing me forward and back and are there any specific DI's or teching at certain percents taht i need to worry about because i know you can get Bthrowed to tipper if you dont tech but i could have sworn that one time i Di'd away or something and he got a free tipper becasue i didnt even hit the ground, is that possible? For edgeguarding marth i again pretty much get on the edge and try to sneak in a Bair hop or force him to go on the platform. Now a lot he is doing his UpB early to try and knock me off so im forced to do my roll early... Would it be possible to ledge hop and grab real fast to get more invince frames to not get knocked off then ledge hop up again to own him? lol idk about that last part haha

He throws you forward, you DI away from him (= in the direction you were thrown towards = forward). Same goes for B-throw, but the hard thing is to DI actually DI all throws well because they're so fast. You just need some quick reflexes. Your best hope to get out of the Upthrow chainthrow is to NOT DI and try to Shine him out of it, but beware tippers.
Edgeguard Marth with lightshield (the famous lightshieldhogging), it forces him to land on stage and let's you grab the edge. You lightshield -> He Up-B's early to land on the stage and hits your lightshield -> You fall off the stage to edgehog -> Jump back on and Bair him off-stage again in his lag -> Repeat.

andddd just some random stuff...
for grabbing falco what are the chaingrab percents...

Around 5-10% to 70-80%

what percent is peach too high to not U air out of a non DI'd uthrow and a DI'd one

At around 100% I wouldn't try to follow her with an upair anymore.

are there certain percent that the Nair->shine-> grab/upsmash (depending on the char) starts working on chars, and is it different between different characters? (Mainly for Marth/CF/Peach/Shiek)

It should work at low and mid percentages.

I get shield grabbed like crazy against ice climbers... Am i not L cancelling properly into the double shield or can they always do it if you hit both shields (mainly for foxes Nair->shine)

You hit both shield with your Nair, giving you more lag. They will always shieldgrab you if they're in the right position to do so.

at 0% what is the best way to handle ****** a falcon or shiek that you just upthrowed, if they dont DI it or if they do DI it, like u air... usmash...u tilt.. which is the best?

Upair chains if they can't smash DI it. Upsmash at low percentages. Up-tilt to another grab to ****. Be creative.


if you shine Gdorf right by the edge and he falls off... is it always possible to wave off after him and shine him again?

If he doesn't CC it, yes.

Read the bold answers in my quote. Hope that helped you ^^

 

[NG7]

all samus' ccs pretty much everthing. at low percent i went in for drillshine-> grab to upthrow etc but was i just missing my l cancel cuz he was just D smashing me right out of it.

Uair can stop a samus from crouch-cancelling so you can try that.

You have to be really smart about when to use it tho because say you're constantly double-jumping above her shield, chances are you're gonna get up-b'd.

It's pretty tricky.

 

[takieddine]

Drill to utilt. Nuff said.

 

[Dekuschrub]

thanks for the help, i'll probly post more questions later

 

[Hylian]

Ok then.....

 

[Dekuschrub]

sooo today i was playing my friends marth annnddd i always shine-> grab and i was wondering sometimes when i shine and grab him b4 he can fall off the edge (like i wil be on the very edge and he is dangling off) then i dthrow him.. is there any way he can tech this or is it certain death.

it mainly happens on like FoD battlefield sometimes dreamland and sometimes FD..

 

[Hylian]

Yes they can tech..just hold twoards the stage and tech..not really hard...also I THINK he can metoeor cancel it as well...