Fox or Falco?

[Conda]

Been switching between them to see whose playstyle and strengths/weaknesses I like more. Im sure many others do this with what are your thoughts so far?

Falco has some great ground moves, down-b out of dash/run (basically an alternate dash attack), grab game, jab, and uair/dair/bair, and jump height.
But he is slow.

Fox has great runspeed and dash game, grab game due to great dash grab speed, and aerials, shine stalling, and i like his laser.
But his reflector isnt nearly as useful as falcos for actually reflecting stuff. And his range really sucks - you need to rely on speed to land hits. His smashes seem to be weak killers this time around too. Fsmash is better for building damage so far for me, for example. He also doesnt have any regular spikes other than using fair a certain way.

 

[LordMasterFox]

Fox all day, everyday. In reality, Fox is alot greater than what you think. Unlike Falco who's has limited options, Fox can do more than any other character. Fox can combo for days in each and any way, great offence and defence game proabliy the best in the game, crazy speed, and has a better chance landing a finisher than everyone. Plus, like every other smash game Fox UpSmash can kill at 95% or less only fully charge and depending how well you combo it. 100% at best. So in the end, Falco is good and strong but slow and limited. Fox is faster more reachable and more well-put. btw.... Fox reflector and blaster are still good tools to use. Upsmash is dependable but can still kill well.

 

[Conda]

Fox all day, everyday. In reality, Fox is alot greater than what you think. Unlike Falco who's has limited options, Fox can do more than any other character. Fox can combo for days in each and any way, great offence and defence game proabliy the best in the game, crazy speed, and has a better chance landing a finisher than everyone. Plus, like every other smash game Fox UpSmash can kill at 95% or less only fully charge and depending how well you combo it. 100% at best. So in the end, Falco is good and strong but slow and limited. Fox is faster more reachable and more well-put. btw.... Fox reflector and blaster are still good tools to use. Upsmash is dependable but can still kill well.

I agree with many of your points. I just feel it's more difficult to use Fox to his full potential, as his range is so short and he lacks approaches.

I also find his jump height lacking - not sure if its worse than Brawl, but it feels worse. Jumping up quickly to land that uair seems very difficult this time around. His bair is also much worse than falcos and much harder to land - it has so few active frames, so you have to land it perfectly yet the hitbox is so tiny.

I'm worried Fox may end up like Brawl Captain Falcon - short range low-priority moves that are easy to outrange and outprioritize. Not sure how we'll deal with Marths and such. His smashes also barely kill - especially his dsmash and fsmash (which can whiff and does not have much range, even if the animation makes it look like it has reach it does not).

 

[G-Sword]

fox has always lacked range and approaches. just have to be creative

 

[Conda]

fox has always lacked range and approaches. just have to be creative

Agreed. But with the tools that the powerful characters in this game have - notably high range and priority moves - Fox may be more outclassed than usual. Falco has the edge here, but lacks speed and thus can't punish as well in my experience so far.

But his smashes are all better than Fox's - his upsmash hits behind him which fox's doesnt, and his fsmash isnt as whiff-prone.

 

[Conda]

Other thoughts.

Falco got a huge usmash buff, id say its better than falcos. It has a longer lasting double hitbox and huts behind him. Fox's whiffs if the enemy js behind you, which is a huge drawback.

Fox's side smash whiffs if characters are too close as well. And it has a shorter hitbox than the graphic suggests.

Uair may be even. Foxs is easy to whiff the second hit with, and falcos has a much larger hitbox and less landing lag.

 

[Mighty_Guy100]

Other thoughts.

Falco got a huge usmash buff, id say its better than falcos. It has a longer lasting double hitbox and huts behind him. Fox's whiffs if the enemy js behind you, which is a huge drawback.

Fox's side smash whiffs if characters are too close as well. And it has a shorter hitbox than the graphic suggests.

Uair may be even. Foxs is easy to whiff the second hit with, and falcos has a much larger hitbox and less landing lag.

Falcos u-smash definatley has more reach, but i find the 2-hit to be a nerf. Sometimes the first hit knocks people away from the second! It isin't as powerfull as fox's, and it has more endlag.

Though to answer the op, i think it depends on your playstyle. Im playing both .

 

[Conda]

Falcos u-smash definatley has more reach, but i find the 2-hit to be a nerf. Sometimes the first hit knocks people away from the second! It isin't as powerfull as fox's, and it has more endlag.

Though to answer the op, i think it depends on your playstyle. Im playing both .

Yeah im switchin between both

 

[Conda]

Did some tests with fox and falco. Numbers are approximate since im not the bet at testing haha, but its interesting what the results are. Kill % tested on ZSS on left/right side of FD.

Format will be
Fox dmg (kill%)
Falco dmg (kill%)

Jab
8
11
Dash attack
6
6
Utilt
6-9
9
Ftilt
6-8
9
Dtilt
6
12 (130)
Usmash
16 (105)
16 (120)
Fsmash
14 (110)
15 (110)
Dsmash
14 (110)
15 (110)
Nair
9
2-12 (hitbox stinks)
Uair
16 (120)
11 (140)
Fair
6
8 (140)
Dair
5-11~
13
Bair
13 (130)
13 (90)!
B
1.3 (3 hits = 4%)
3
Upb
24 (180)
17
Sideb
3
7 !
Downb
2
5
Pummel
1
2

As we can see, falco builds damage quicker in general and can kill earlier than fox with bair. Their smash kill options are the same minus usmash. Falco's upsmash has 2 hits, and the second can whiff. Fox's doesnt hit behind him, though. Fox has more dsmash range as well, even though falcos looks larger.

Fox can kill earlier with usmash, but can barely kill with any of his aerials minus bair, which is much worse than falcos in every way - short range, lower knockback, short delay until it comes out, tiny timeframe for the hitbox, etc.

Falco's sideb does more damage than fox's, which is interesting as it has the better knockback trajectory too.

Fox's nair is undeniably better than falcos. Falcos is escapable, randomly whiffs, and unreliable to follow up in as your enemy recovers faster than you do. Youll get punished for using this if the final hit doesnt land, which is often. Badly designed move.

 

[Mighty_Guy100]

Did some tests with fox and falco. Numbers are approximate since im not the bet at testing haha, but its interesting what the results are. Kill % tested on ZSS on left/right side of FD.

Format will be
Fox dmg (kill%)
Falco dmg (kill%)

Jab
8
11
Dash attack
6
6
Utilt
6-9
9
Ftilt
6-8
9
Dtilt
6
12 (130)
Usmash
16 (105)
16 (120)
Fsmash
14 (110)
15 (110)
Dsmash
14 (110)
15 (110)
Nair
9
2-12 (hitbox stinks)
Uair
16 (120)
11 (140)
Fair
6
8 (140)
Dair
5-11~
13
Bair
13 (130)
13 (90)!
B
1.3 (3 hits = 4%)
3
Upb
24 (180)
17
Sideb
3
7 !
Downb
2
5
Pummel
1
2

As we can see, falco builds damage quicker in general and can kill earlier than fox with bair. Their smash kill options are the same minus usmash. Falco's upsmash has 2 hits, and the second can whiff. Fox's doesnt hit behind him, though. Fox has more dsmash range as well, even though falcos looks larger.

Fox can kill earlier with usmash, but can barely kill with any of his aerials minus bair, which is much worse than falcos in every way - short range, lower knockback, short delay until it comes out, tiny timeframe for the hitbox, etc.

Falco's sideb does more damage than fox's, which is interesting as it has the better knockback trajectory too.

Fox's nair is undeniably better than falcos. Falcos is escapable, randomly whiffs, and unreliable to follow up in as your enemy recovers faster than you do. Youll get punished for using this if the final hit doesnt land, which is often. Badly designed move.

Fox's side-b has minimal landing lag in this game. You can short-hop then immediately side-b, and have low lag at the end. Its not quite as fast as brawl falco's, but you can use it In the same way.

Also, while not that practical, if you space the side-b you can get an u-air follow up at high%'s for a kill.

It doesn't spike tho.

 

[RPK]

Actually Falco's Nair can still combo into his U-tilt which is extremely sexy, and Fox's bair is incredibly good in this game like in Brawl. It has absolutely ZERO LAG if timed correctly and can hit I believe every character in the game while they're standing. Of course character heights will change the difficulty but, none the less it's still lagless. Also Fox builds damage faster cause I believe he has better combo strings. I mean Nair -> U-tilt x3 -> Grab -> Pummel -> D-throw -> Fair -> DJ Uair. Or if you're feeling spicy you can replace Fair with Bair for better damage.

 

[Conda]

Actually Falco's Nair can still combo into his U-tilt which is extremely sexy, and Fox's bair is incredibly good in this game like in Brawl. It has absolutely ZERO LAG if timed correctly and can hit I believe every character in the game while they're standing. Of course character heights will change the difficulty but, none the less it's still lagless. Also Fox builds damage faster cause I believe he has better combo strings. I mean Nair -> U-tilt x3 -> Grab -> Pummel -> D-throw -> Fair -> DJ Uair. Or if you're feeling spicy you can replace Fair with Bair for better damage.

Fox's bair has delay before it comes out, and is out for a fraction of a second, and doesnt kill from mid stage until higher %s.
Falco's bair has none of these deawbacks. It has larger reach, a body hitbox, stays out for a while, comes out actually instantly, and kills much earlier than fox's.

Fox's nair is a more important aerial imo.

Those combos are great though, although they are read-based. Falco has these too.

 

[DavemanCozy]

You can KO with Fox's F-air with the last hit too, you have to hit at around 160 for that to happen though (190 on DK, Bowser, etc).

Fox is for sure way better. His range may be limited, but his speed and combo game makes up for it. You can still bait opponents using his speed, the pivot mechanics in this game make it so good + it also looks so clean and smooth.

 

[Conda]

You can KO with Fox's F-air with the last hit too, you have to hit at around 160 for that to happen though (190 on DK, Bowser, etc).

Fox is for sure way better. His range may be limited, but his speed and combo game makes up for it. You can still bait opponents using his speed, the pivot mechanics in this game make it so good + it also looks so clean and smooth.

It doesnt kill at 160 in the middle of the stage though. Not an actual killmove by design. Can gimp offstage but thats it. And even then it usually only helps the opponent recover. Saying you can kill with a move at 160-190 offstage offstage isnt great, as the purpose of gimping is to fastforward, and getting to 160-190 is the opposite. A lot of moves can kill offstage at high high % but theyre not killmoves.

Falco's is designed as a killmove, which is the difference.

Not sure Fox is better than Falco honestly. Falco has improved ground range, reflector, boxing, and has easy aerial killmoves.


He can also easily gimp offstage as well as kill off the top of the stage -- dj->uair is a killer due to falcos aerial speed and height. Fox can not compete due to his jump height - falco can get so high that, while his uair is weaker, it is quicker and has a better hitbox and is easier to land. Coupled with being so high, it is such an early killer at low percents.

They both have pros and cons, and Fox is definitely not outright better than a skilled Falco. They both have powerful tools that you have to take advantage of - people are not of using on Falco's huge strengths.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Yeah, that's true. It's not really a KO move, but I like it as an edgeguarding move.

I tried Falco, but I dunno: I just don't like him anymore. His D-air has a horrid amount of startup lag and ending lag, + it's increadibly punishable if you miss it. His lack of speed also turns me away from him. Doesn't help that his laser game is gone. I guess that's the point though. I can't just play Melee Falco in this game: SSB4 Falco is a whole different character with different options. I'll give him another shot.

I'll probably end up sticking with Fox though. He's looking more and more like my main for this game, along with Shulk and Bowser.

 

[RPK]

Fox's bair has delay before it comes out, and is out for a fraction of a second, and doesnt kill from mid stage until higher %s.
Falco's bair has none of these deawbacks. It has larger reach, a body hitbox, stays out for a while, comes out actually instantly, and kills much earlier than fox's.

Fox's nair is a more important aerial imo.

Those combos are great though, although they are read-based. Falco has these too.

Not supposed to kill from the middle of the stage with it anyways... But yes Falco's Bair is better, but theyre both good kill moves anyways so its whatever. Also Falco's D-throw is better because its lower to the ground, but it has no guaranteed follow ups besides Dash Attack and Nair at low percents, but unlike Fox, Falco can't convert it further than 1 follow up while Fox still has his Fair to Uair combo from brawl. It's pretty awesome.

Also Fox has boxing like Falco and his is infinitely better than Falco's because Fox's doesnt really have to stop lol. Falco has a noticeable lag at the end of his two jabs. So much that it can't even combo into his spin...It's kinda silly. Also overall, Fox has a much better ground game because of his walk speed which plays an incredibly big part into his game, as well as a better dash which also results in Fox having a much better OOS game than Falco. Also the fact that having a strong ground game in this version is everything considering that Airdodging got nerfed as well as a lot of aerials. So in my eyes, a Falco is definitely not better than a skilled Fox, but hey...Theyre both great characters. It's surprising to say this, but besides a small handful of characters, everybody in this game is strong.

 

[Conda]

Not supposed to kill from the middle of the stage with it anyways... But yes Falco's Bair is better, but theyre both good kill moves anyways so its whatever. Also Falco's D-throw is better because its lower to the ground, but it has no guaranteed follow ups besides Dash Attack and Nair at low percents, but unlike Fox, Falco can't convert it further than 1 follow up while Fox still has his Fair to Uair combo from brawl. It's pretty awesome.

Also Fox has boxing like Falco and his is infinitely better than Falco's because Fox's doesnt really have to stop lol. Falco has a noticeable lag at the end of his two jabs. So much that it can't even combo into his spin...It's kinda silly. Also overall, Fox has a much better ground game because of his walk speed which plays an incredibly big part into his game, as well as a better dash which also results in Fox having a much better OOS game than Falco. Also the fact that having a strong ground game in this version is everything considering that Airdodging got nerfed as well as a lot of aerials. So in my eyes, a Falco is definitely not better than a skilled Fox, but hey...Theyre both great characters. It's surprising to say this, but besides a small handful of characters, everybody in this game is strong.

Yeah i think the main point is that they play very differently. Falco is slower and heavier and can ascend quicker - making following up to uairs easier and returning to the stage without up b easier. Fox has speed though, which means he is intentionally weaker in a lot of areas. But that's because speed is good.

 

[RPK]

Yeah i think the main point is that they play very differently. Falco is slower and heavier and can ascend quicker - making following up to uairs easier and returning to the stage without up b easier. Fox has speed though, which means he is intentionally weaker in a lot of areas. But that's because speed is good.

I wouldn't say he's weaker in a lot of areas tho...His grab game is amazing, all of his aerials are good except for dair...All his ground moves are good except maybe D-tilt, and every special of his is great except for laser and even then it has some use. His kill potential is godlike, he probably has the best punish in the game because of his dash upsmash which is a great option OOS and has even more, a great recovery with the buff to illusion, and hes just an overall a really strong character. The only thing thats weak about him imo is his projectile/long range game, and even that's debatable.

 

[M@v]

Falco 3ds, Fox Wii U

Yes, Falco can Dacus on wii, but he's also a lot slower and more manageable to control on the 3DS. I can't do everything I want with fox fast enough on the 3DS, so outside of that Flamedashing video I put up, you won't see me doing much with him in 3DS.

 

[RPK]

@ M@v
don't be such a baby </3 l2 3dS 73K 5k1ll n00B

On another note, I did learn recently that right as you dash if you press A and then R + Other direction it does the boost pivot grab which still looks absolutely sexy on Fox. But Shhhhh...You must keep quiet. These are ancient norcal secrets straight from the islands of japan

 

[The Pizza Guy]

Personally, I think it's just a matter of preference.

 

[G-Sword]

i just played the 3ds with fox for a few hours i have to say you cant really judge right now if fox or falco is better. fox has so much untapped potential but i cant even perform it or get use to it because the 3ds is really not meant for this game at all not to mention the lag thats killing the online play for me. my hands are killing me playing on that thing lol. the real game is just a month away

 

[RPK]

I honestly think that Fox is the better character with the only thing Falco is better at is his ability to kill OOS with Bair or just with Bair in general consider it kills at such a low percent. I honestly wouldve thought Falco to be the better character if they didnt nerf the crap out of his Dair, his Jabs, and his Nair. His Dair has a considerable amount of lag, his jabs, after the first two have a considerable amount of lag, and his nair also has a crap ton of lag if it doesn't hit giving him no good options in front if he's in the air where he's supposed to be stronger than Fox. Yes, he has reflector, but thats still a bad option if it gets shielded considering the lag that move also has.