Fox Lab Results: What is Possible With Fox 1.1.0

[Yung Kage]

Everybody in the smash community wants to be the best. With over 48 characters and more to come, it could be some time before we receive a Fox balancing patch. The purpose for this forum is not to look at whats wrong with fox, but rather collaborate what we have. There is a chance that Fox may never receive a patch again, and that possibility is enough of a reason to prefect what we were given.

I am no ranked player, nor am i locally well known, but i am a Fox main none the less and i intend to keep it that way.

If i were to describe fox in a little less educated way, id probably say something like "Fox is fast af so it makes it easy to punish slower moves. Once you get use to his fast falling speed, you'll realize that its a great advantage. His lasers absolutely kill slower characters and force the approach during the neutral. His up-smash dominates, along with his up-air. His back-air practically auto cancels into the ground and is great for spacing."

Guys, this is the **** that everyone already knows, and yet i keep seeing it brought up. I haven't come up with anything new, and my conclusion is this:
This information, you know, the **** that everyone who plays fox knows, is ALL that we have. Our speed is our speed. Our damage is our damage. Our kill power is our kill power. The only way you cn improve your Fox game is simple. Prefect EVERYTHING. Accuracy is so important with fox, and fast characters are the hardest to be accurate with. Learning to read is so important for fox because he really does lack reliable set ups for kills. Patients, Accuracy, Perfection, and a god damn love for the character is all you need. Hes top tier, take what you have and practice until you never miss the beat.

If you guys find anything new, post it. Share it with everyone.

P.S. Luigi will get nerfed, just wait.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Yo, there's a Yung Mickel, a "Yung Foisch", and now a Yung Kage. All these Yung players coming out!

 

[Foster J.]

One day Sakurai senpai will buff Fox, probably with the release of StarFox Zero... then we'll get throw options.... just you wait

 

[SuperScope]

It's not all we have though. The game is still young. Perfect pivot looks like it has super good potential for fox, but it's not fully developed or understood yet. On top of that, there are some things I don't see from players that can be great mixups like falling upair edgeguards.

In the beginning of smash 4 people said don't even try to fight off stage, but fox can play pretty nutty off stage. Don't let anyone recover for free.

 

[JosePollo]

I wrote this down the other day during my break at work, mostly as a reminder to myself of the stuff I like to do with Fox that works. Figured this is as good a place as any to share it.

"Movement
-His fast falling speed makes it safe for him to do a lot of empty hops, since he gets very little air time
-His long dash start-up gives him a long foxtrot and perfect pivot
-His pivots, in general, slide very far before stopping
-Shine stalling can help him avoid follow-ups that aren't guaranteed without having him spend his double jump or air dodge

Neutral
-Fire two or three quick lasers to pressure the opponent into action; if they shield, fire some more lasers
-Short hopping keeps all his options open since he can very quickly move from the air (where he can use his great neutral air to start combos) to the ground
-Down tilt is a very good poke due to its quick start-up and short cooldown
-His very fast ground speed makes it easy for him to reset neutral against slower characters

Recovery
-His bad horizontal aerial movement forces him to have to use his Illusion when sent too far off-stage
-Fire Fox covers a great distance, but its long start-up leaves him very vulnerable to characters with strong off-stage presence; try to never climb the slopes of stages when recovering with Fire Fox since it will be impossible for you to tech a stage spike
-It's usually best to aim for the ledge when using Illusion since it gives him almost instant invincibility; only recover on-stage as mix-up
-He has a wall jump, so keep that in mind
-Down air gives him a decent landing tool against opponents with weak juggling tools and has and decent auto-cancel window
-Down air also auto-cancels when used off the ledge with a ledge drop jump, as long as you don't fast-fall it.

Off-stage
-It's generally best to avoid putting yourself off-stage with Fox, so if you don't outright K.O. an opponent, go for a ledge trump or get-up read instead of trying to gimp off-stage
-Shine can snuff out non-offensive recoveries when timed correctly

Combos/Set-ups
-It's normally best to finish your rapid jab as quickly as possible, since opponents can easily SDI out of it after the first loop
-Double jab to grab is still fairly reliable
-Down throw can lead into fair if the opponent doesn't air dodge; said fair can then lead into an up air at early percentages
-Up tilt combos into itself up until the mid-range percentages against most characters; fast fallers usually need about 30% or so before they can be chained, since they can usually pull up their shield before a second up tilt connects
-Up tilt can lead into forward air/RAR back air at mid, to mid-high percentages
-Avoid connecting the final hit of fair to send the opponent straight down into a tech-chase situation; up smash for the kill if they don't tech
-Down air's landing hitbox leads into a guaranteed JC'd up smash at early kill percentages
-Illusion can tack on extra damage if you manage to land a forward smash
-Down smash is usually a kill against a vulnerable opponent on the ledge (like after a ledge trump); up tilt also works well, since it scoops the ledge
-Firing a couple of lasers after launching an opponent is never a bad idea

Out-of-shield
-His grab game is a little lackluster since he lacks a kill throw and his combo throws are unreliable
-Nair and dair are both very quick and can force knockdown, which (and as stated above) can lead to up smash kills or tech-read situations
-Out-of-shield is one of the easiest ways to connect an up smash
-Jab's not a bad idea, but it makes for a pretty lackluster punish
-Shine can also be used Out-of-shield for a quick reflect against an unsuspecting projectile user, and it can be immediately acted out of if it reflects

Customs
-Neutral 2: Serves in much the same way as Falco's blaster: best used as a disruptor rather than to tack on damage
-Neutral 3: Only really usable if you have the hardest of reads on your opponent, you manage to somehow break their shield, or they're just f***ing around. It's pretty horrible.
-Side 2: Ehh. You'll catch your opponent by surprise once then never land it again.
-Side 3: What it lacks in horizontal recovery it makes up for with its ability to meteor opponents, and you can combo into it from down throw at a certain percent range if your opponent doesn't DI vertically; the diagonal angle also keeps it from being more easily edge-guarded.
-Up 2: The faster start-up is an overall improvement from the regular up b, and travels a longer distance, but it has no hitbox, so it's even easier to edge-guard.
-Up 3: Gives less in terms of recovery (though ot has slightly less start-up than the regular up b), but provides a viable vertical kill option that is still kind of hard to edge-guard because of its large hitbox; can kill opponents as early as 60% if you catch them going up. And you can use it out-of-shield.
-Down 2: Trades power (x1.2 damage modifier, down from x1.4 for the standard shine) for a bigger hitbox with a windbox
-Down 3: Powers up reflected projectiles by a factor of 2.1 at the expense of start-up time, a damaging hitbox, and shine stalling

Misc.
-Shine cancels a ledge jump, for some reason."

I'll post gifs of some of this stuff once when I get off of work.

 

[JosePollo]

Here's three ways you can set up for up smash kills a little more easily. From least guaranteed, to most.

Spoiler: Fair spike/fair drop to up smash

You catch the opponent into fair, then fast-fall partway through, causing the victim to fall out of the move and plummet straight down, putting them into a tech-chase situation; up smash is guaranteed if they miss their tech. Just keep in mind that the hitlag on the move will cause Fox to hover in the air longer, so you kinda have to mash down repeatedly to get the fast fall to happen. The closer to the ground you use this, the less chance your opponent has to react, so try keeping it to short hops.

Spoiler: dair to up smash

This one is probably the easiest way to set up Fox's up smash since the only requirement is that you hit with the landing hitbox, which happens automatically when you land before the final hit. Like with fair, the hitlag keeps him suspended in the air a little longer, so you'll want to mash down to ensure you land before the final hit. At kill percentage you'll be able to follow it up with a jump-cancelled up smash before your opponent even has a chance to tech.

Dair auto-cancels off of a ledge drop jump, giving you the option to go for the auto-cancel if your opponent shields the move, or the kill set-up if they drop shield (as the CPU does in the gif). Even if you don't get the landing hitbox, your opponent is still sent away, or you can opt for a defensive option after the auto-cancel, so this maneuver is actually incredibly safe.

Spoiler: weak nair to up smash

This one's a little harder since it requires a bit more finesse to hit with the correct hitbox of nair, but since the it has the least amount of landing lag it's the one that's most successful at guaranteeing the up smash.

Dair and nair both require you to jump-cancel the up smash, so you just have to make sure you practice those (they're not hard to do, at all).

 

[JosePollo]

And here's two little tricks Fox can do with his shine.

Spoiler: Shine out-of-shield

Just mind the timing. Jump first to cancel shield, THEN input down, otherwise you'll just get a spot dodge. You can act immediately after reflecting anything, although it works kind of like holding shield so inputting a direction will give you a spot dodge or roll. It's best to just cancel it with a jump.

Spoiler: Ledge jump shine cancel in action

I'm not exactly sure frame-wise how early you can input the shine, but it's pretty early because you can miss landing on the stage entirely. The cool thing about it is that since it happens so early in the get-up, Fox retains his invincibility as he does it. It has an interesting auto-cancel window, too, so if you use the shine at a certain height it's possible to hit someone with it, then almost immediately follow up with something else. I didn't capture it in this particular gif, though, unfortunately.

I can't upload more than 3 gifs on here, apparently, so I split them up into up smash set-ups and shine tricks.

Spoiler: practice your perfect pivots

 

[Kofeezy]

That shine ledge jump is good stuff, very good write up.

 

[SuperScope]

I think perfect pivot dsmash has potential.

 

[JosePollo]

That shine ledge jump is good stuff, very good write up.

Lol shine would be so much better if you could cancel it on contact with anything, rather than just projectiles, but it's already the best reflector in the game (outside of Villager's Pocket, but that doesn't really count like a reflector). Being able to hit a shield with it, then immediately jump out while the opponent is in shield stun would probably put him at the top of A-tier, if not maybe S-tier.

I think perfect pivot dsmash has potential.

"Extended Dash Dancing" can be done by the whole cast, and you can cancel the dash into a perfect pivot from which you can then go into any other action. Fox benefits particularly well from it because of the tools he has on the ground. Frame-2 jab, down tilt, and especially up tilt--since it combos into other moves--are all very strong options out of a perfect pivot.