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Fox Hitbox Visualization

Furil

Furil

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
164
Smash 4 hit-boxes are interpolated, so imagine a line between a hit-box's current position and it's last. It hits that area too.
Example: http://i.imgur.com/wEBKNpI.gif

There are potentially bugs in any of these, so let me know if you notice anything particularly off and I'll check. There have been instances of weird hit-boxes that ended up being a bug.


No DTilt for now




I can get grabs later if wanted...

Mini-FAQ:
Q: How did you make these?
A: I made a parser for animcmd commands and applied it to the model and animation from the 3DS version of the game.

Q: Can you do hurtboxes?
A: Not yet

Q: These don't look like the quality of the Wii U models, why?
A: These are 3DS models (and data). There isn't a difference in frame data between Wii U and 3DS.

Q: This attack looks wrong, is this actually correct?
A: Let me know which one and I'll check. It's possible for a bug or two to mess up stuff.

Q: The image isn't playing.
A: There are play, reverse, and frame advance buttons under the images. They may be hard to see.

Q: Can I use these for my guide?
A: Yes.

Thank you
 
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DungeonMaster

DungeonMaster

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
1,055
Location
Ottawa
NNID
Dalaeck
Really great work as usual. Enormous service to the community.

I find the D-air hitbox particularly offensive to any idea of balance. Apparently this character needs a disjointed hitbox the size of the character on D-air. Utterly ********. Frame 5 startup and gigantic freaking disjoint at the end larger than cloud's sword.
I'm curious since you have the numbers on hand - is it larger or smaller than D3's hammer on D-air?
U-tilt is pretty hilariously stupid design as well.

Surprised N-air is not more disjointed but I guess it doesn't display hurtbox, so it could in fact be more than the visual model overlay.

Great work again. Mario next plz! I want to see that D-air.
 
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Furil

Furil

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
164
DungeonMaster said:
I find the D-air hitbox particularly offensive to any idea of balance. Apparently this character needs a disjointed hitbox the size of the character on D-air. Utterly ********. Frame 5 startup and gigantic freaking disjoint at the end larger than cloud's sword.
I'm curious since you have the numbers on hand - is it larger or smaller than D3's hammer on D-air?
Click to expand...
They are the same size; 8.5 units

Foster J. said:
At last, Fsmash has been confirmed as to being mediocre!
Great stuff, but where's Dsmash I wonder?
Click to expand...
I added it!
 
200%Dad

200%Dad

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
2
I would really like to believe that up-tilt is that big; is that for sure?
 
Ffamran

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
DungeonMaster said:
Really great work as usual. Enormous service to the community.

I find the D-air hitbox particularly offensive to any idea of balance. Apparently this character needs a disjointed hitbox the size of the character on D-air. Utterly ********. Frame 5 startup and gigantic freaking disjoint at the end larger than cloud's sword.
I'm curious since you have the numbers on hand - is it larger or smaller than D3's hammer on D-air?
U-tilt is pretty hilariously stupid design as well.

Surprised N-air is not more disjointed but I guess it doesn't display hurtbox, so it could in fact be more than the visual model overlay.

Great work again. Mario next plz! I want to see that D-air.
Click to expand...
Multi-hits, especially aerials, ending with a giant hitbox isn't uncommon. Duck Hunt, Falco, Lucario, probably Mario, Ness, and Zelda have them as well. Some characters just have it more with much, much larger finisher hitboxes. There's probably more since not all characters are done yet. Some characters just have much, much larger ending hitboxes than others. It's a way to deal with the fact being in the air means there's constant motion and who knows, something stupid might happen, a character falls out, so they try to address that.

I think the big problem with multi-hits in a Smash is that as a knockback-focused game and where every hit tends to do much higher knockback compared to other fighting games, multi-hits are generally at a disadvantage and more prone to failing compared to single hit moves. Fixed, set, or weighted knockback is supposed to be an answer alongside auto-link angles, but multi-hits, even the best of them, still fail compared to single hits. If only there was a way to actually do hit stun, but "no" knockback. That might make multi-hits function much, much better. The alternative is to make multi-hits loop or link faster which has happened in Smash 4; Melee and Brawl had really slow multi-hits for whatever reason e.g. Melee Falco and Fox's Fair which could be justified as a lingering aerial that goes through multiple late hits or Brawl Falco's Fair which had 7 frame gaps for its loop hits.

Also, if you want a stupid Utilt, look at ZSS's. Invincible throughout the entire move, recoilless like Ike's dash attack or Little Mac's jab, Utilt, Ftilt, and Dtilt, has a ton of horizontal range for a Utilt, and is frame 3. It's not a common move ZSS players use nor is it abusive since it has 36 recovery frames to Fox's 21, but it's really stupid on-paper with its hitbox and properties. Still, I'd rather not see complaints in threads like these. Complaining about or using hitboxes to explain why moves are malfunctioning is fine, but even then, another thread would be better for that.

200%Dad said:
I would really like to believe that up-tilt is that big; is that for sure?
Click to expand...
Smash stretches limbs for some characters and some moves which isn't shown in Furil's hitbox viewers. Looks like Fox's Utilt is one of them and I think it's been like this since Brawl. Fox's rapid jab finisher and Down Smash are others and there might be more. See his foot looking much bigger than normal? It's kind of hard to see in-game because of the attack trails and well, it's during a game. The easiest ones to see are his rapid jab finisher and Down Smash in my opinion.


Anyway, @KuroganeHammer, apparently Up Smash is Melee -- not sure about Brawl's and I don't really want to check what bone 0x2E is on Brawl Fox's body, but knowing characters tend not to change, it's probably his head that's invincible in Brawl -- Up Smash in terms of invincibility; head invincibility instead of foot invincibility. sixriver's agreeing to this with the notes for Up Smash saying, "頭無敵 1-9F", which is roughly / Google translated as: "head invincible 1-9F". They're disagreeing with Down Smash; they're saying it's invincible frames 6-8 ("両足無敵 6-8F") instead of 6-7 which, if I watched correctly, matches Furil's hitboxes. Fox's page: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...B4CEK3p4kl7XM-dWuqFxI/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=0.

Regarding Up Smash, head invincibility kind of seems pointless... Leg or head and upper body invincibility would have been more beneficial.

Edit: Don't think Ftilt stretches like it did in Brawl. Shared with Falco; both lost their Ftilt stretches.


Dtilt on the other hand does still stretch like it always did, well, since Melee, but it might be different.



Looks like Smash 4's probably the shortest stretch, but there's also the problem of the tip not having a hitbox like in Melee and probably Brawl and 64.
 
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G

GNCFalco

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Messages
4
Location
Brazil
NNID
gabrielnordi
please if you can put down tilt, shine, lasers,grabs (all of them),rapid jab (multi hits and final hit),side B,would be great and the same for falco!
 
DungeonMaster

DungeonMaster

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
1,055
Location
Ottawa
NNID
Dalaeck
Ffamran said:
Multi-hits, especially aerials, ending with a giant hitbox isn't uncommon. Duck Hunt, Falco, Lucario, probably Mario, Ness, and Zelda have them as well. Some characters just have it more with much, much larger finisher hitboxes. There's probably more since not all characters are done yet. Some characters just have much, much larger ending hitboxes than others. It's a way to deal with the fact being in the air means there's constant motion and who knows, something stupid might happen, a character falls out, so they try to address that.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I agree with everything you've said, but that doesn't change my desire to strangle a certain japanese man. Where is my twice-the-size-of-samus ending to up-air, f-air etc?
Fox has a finisher to his d-air that is the SIZE OF DDD'S HAMMER, his tiny little foot. That's ridiculous. If we were actually watching these hitboxes play out on screen it would be this small frame with a gigantic hitbox. Balance - out - window - check!

Also, if you want a stupid Utilt, look at ZSS's. Invincible throughout the entire move, recoilless like Ike's dash attack or Little Mac's jab, Utilt, Ftilt, and Dtilt, has a ton of horizontal range for a Utilt, and is frame 3. It's not a common move ZSS players use nor is it abusive since it has 36 recovery frames to Fox's 21, but it's really stupid on-paper with its hitbox and properties. Still, I'd rather not see complaints in threads like these. Complaining about or using hitboxes to explain why moves are malfunctioning is fine, but even then, another thread would be better for that.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Albeit those small invincibility/intangibility bubbles covering Fox in his smashes seem to indicate his frame is a LOT smaller than visual indications would otherwise make you believe.
I would love to one day see the hurtboxes overlayed with hitboxes.
 
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Foster J.

Foster J.

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 7, 2015
Messages
543
Location
Denmark, Jylland
mikemostan said:
Because the first frames seem bigger and I don´t know if that´s what distinguinshes a combo string from a true combo.
Click to expand...
1st hitbox is the strong hit, and after that you get a weak hit.
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Fox

The strong hit of dash attack from frame 4-7 does 6 dmg
But weak hit from 8-15 does 4 dmg.

So yeah, the launching is weaker with the 2nd hit, and generally it's easier to get a dash attack into Uair with the weak hit at higher percentages
 
JosePollo

JosePollo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
406
Location
Las Vegas
Furil Furil would it be possible a quick visual of "attack100start"? I kinda wanna see that extended 0.4% damage, 180° hitbox that sucks opponents into Fox's rapid jab after jab 2. Makes it almost impossible to get out of. Rapid jab finisher would also be interesting. Maybe landing dair, too.
 
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T

Threegale

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 17, 2016
Messages
1
NNID
Hipperslepers
mikemostan said:
Is there a difference between combos in the dash attack hitboxes?
Click to expand...
Yes, the last hitbox of dash attack does 4% and is amazing for combos my favorite is
low %- jabs
mid %- turn around utilts
high %- u-air (also a kill option)
 
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