Found a new Ness technique, need verification it works.

[King_Spycrab]

So, while playing around on Training Mode with Ness, I discovered that air-dodging at the second you use your second jump, you go a bit higher and get I-Frames in. Would this technique be useful, or just a stupid thing to do? Thanks!

 

[Earthbound360]

Someone else just posted about this today actually.

 

[DeleteThisAcct]

I discovered this tech on May 18th (when I signed up here). #smashbros IRC is a witness to this as I demonstrated it live to a few members in the room. Got around to posting about it and making a video demonstrating it a few days ago. Next time, please check the Ness Tech Encyclopedia thread first, if nothing else.

EDIT: Actually, now that I looked at it again, it was actually May 15th. This is the original video, however I didn't post it publicly cause I wasn't happy with how I sounded in it, and only showed it to a select few, I'll leave up for a little bit longer now before deleting it http://1drv.ms/1JMf4dh

If you go to the file details, it'll show the share date as 5/15.

Sorry if this sounds really defensive and rude of me but I don't take lightly to people taking credit for other people's work.

Also, can someone who's capable of editing the SmashWiki's give me credit for this before anyone else tries to steal it?

 

[Uffe]

You're sounding very arrogant. Any upload from the past is good enough. Back in Brawl, a Ness main named Cazcom would use PKF on their opponent when they were offstage and then dair spike them. People referred to it as the "Cazcombo", though Simna ibn Sind had done that way back in Melee. As long as you have proof, it's nothing to get worked up about. And even if the OP uses Falcon, it doesn't mean he hasn't tried other characters or saw something about that character that someone might have not discovered. I played against a Mario main one day and brought out Villager, a character I don't even use. I planted the seed sprout into the ground, knocked the Mario off stage afterwards, and when he uses his up B to recover, I used Villager's down B (his can) and pushed him away from the ledge as if it were Mario's F.L.U.D.D., thus gimping him. He said he had never seen a Villager use that, but I'm sure some Villager main has done that before.

 

[DeleteThisAcct]

True, I'll fix that, I went out of line there. I apologize. It's just I don't have much to call my own, and I always wanted to make a name for myself and contribute something new to the Smash community as well as get some recognition for it like the Smashers who've discovered past techs; this is my chance - so I hope you can understand why I'm a bit on edge about this matter as I'd like recognition and credit where it is due, you know?

 

[Earthbound360]

No one really takes credit for things like that. Even if you make or discover a tech, you very rarely get direct credit for it anyways. It's nothing to get defensive about. Most people don't even name these techs after themselves because it's not worth it.

 

[Uffe]

True, I'll fix that, I went out of line there. I apologize. It's just I don't have much to call my own, and I always wanted to make a name for myself and contribute something new to the Smash community as well as get some recognition for it like the Smashers who've discovered past techs; this is my chance - so I hope you can understand why I'm a bit on edge about this matter as I'd like recognition and credit where it is due, you know?

If you want to be recognized, do it through the means of using your main and showing people what you've got. During the Brawl days, I wasn't even known. I played a bunch of different people, and people started recognizing me because I'd have some people message me about having Ness dittos and wanting to learn new things. I don't know who told these strangers about me, especially since I had never been to a tourney, but I was recognized somehow. I saw a Fox main use his Reflector as a way to slow down his fall and the do a down aerial on his opponents. Basically it was a mindgame. That's when I adopted the same idea for Ness and uploaded this video:

To this very day, I see some Ness mains do this, specifically on stage, though. Nobody credits me for it, they just do it and that's that. EB360 is correct. Very rarely do you get direct credit. So again, if you have proof that you did it first, then cool. That most likely means you discovered it first and that's that.

 

[Asa]

please no dumb names

 

[DeleteThisAcct]

please no dumb names

Moves / techs need names. Would be boring otherwise. Also, it's kinda rude to go around telling people what to do with their own finds, don't you think? I don't go telling you what to do with your discoveries. That being said, I named my tech discovery "PK Hi-Jump"; which I feel is appropriate given it's a tech for Ness and extends his second jump.

 

[Asa]

Jumping and air dodging sounds better. I literally cringed when I heard that name

Mad respect for the discovery tho

 

[Earthbound360]

Jumping and air dodging sounds better. I literally cringed when I heard that name

Mad respect for the discovery tho

That honestly doesn't sound descriptive enough. A name is appropriate if it labels a technique that's a little different than conventional maneuvers.

 

[Noa.]

I don't know if it needs a name persay.

I think that we should just have it listed how strange Ness's double jump is. Probably in a guide somewhere. We should make a nice big guide soon.

If you double jump and do an aerial you will hover for a couple extra frames at the apex of your jump.

If you double jump and do a special you will cancel your double jump.

If you double jump and air dodge you will extend your double jump.

It's all really weird. Is there anything else we haven't tried yet to do something funky with the double jump?

We don't necessarily need a name for each one. Or maybe we do.

 

[Earthbound360]

I don't know if it needs a name persay.

I think that we should just have it listed how strange Ness's double jump is. Probably in a guide somewhere. We should make a nice big guide soon.

If you double jump and do an aerial you will hover for a couple extra frames at the apex of your jump.

If you double jump and do a special you will cancel your double jump.

If you double jump and air dodge you will extend your double jump.

It's all really weird. Is there anything else we haven't tried yet to do something funky with the double jump?

We don't necessarily need a name for each one. Or maybe we do.

If you double jump and PKF at the same time you shoot fowards (PK Jump)
If you double jump and hit the blastzone you lose a stock

DJ+Aerial = Air stall
DJ+Special (delayed) = DJC
DJ+Special (same time) = PK Jump
DJ+Air Dodge = Hi Jump
DJ+Blastzone = PK **** Up

 

[Noa.]

High Jump is a good name for it. I think it's easier to understand.

 

[DeleteThisAcct]

Jumping and air dodging sounds better. I literally cringed when I heard that name

Didn't mean to make you cringe. lol. I thought it was cute and fitting. Kinda shocked you found it cringe worthy.

Mad respect for the discovery tho

Thanks! ^_^

If you double jump and PKF at the same time you shoot fowards (PK Jump)
If you double jump and hit the blastzone you lose a stock

DJ+Aerial = Air stall
DJ+Special (delayed) = DJC
DJ+Special (same time) = PK Jump
DJ+Air Dodge = Hi Jump
DJ+Blastzone = PK **** Up

I can live with the name being shortened to Hi-Jump, however, I think adding the PK at the beginning has a nice ring to it.

I literally LOL'd when I read that last one. PK **** Up made my day. XD

High Jump is a good name for it. I think it's easier to understand.

I strongly prefer the designer spelling of "Hi-Jump" instead of High Jump. There's also a Kirby ability called Hi-Jump, which was my favorite Kirby ability that I wanted to name it after, and given that the discovery was made in Dream Land Omega, along with Dream Land Omega allowing me to show it off clearly while removing all doubts of placebo effect, I feel it should retain that exact name and spelling.

I still think adding PK at the beginning of it would be a nice touch, but I can also see how it might be a little misleading due to it not needing a special, so I guess I can live without that part if it irks the community that much.

 

[thesage]

I've been doing this since 2014. :/

 

[DeleteThisAcct]

I've been doing this since 2014. :/

With all due respect, do you have any proof? Also, if what you say is true, have you posted about it here (cause I searched the Ness board pretty extensively and found nothing prior to posting about it)? I'd assume you would have given your high post count but to me, it seems like you didn't - please correct me if I'm wrong. If not, why didn't you?

 

[The 0ne]

I wonder if this works with Lucas.

 

[DeleteThisAcct]

I wonder if this works with Lucas.

Lochy and I have tested this, we can confirm it actually hinders Lucas' DJ slightly. It's sadly a Ness only tech. However Lucas can still Air Stall (DJ + Aerial), which is weird.

 

[Earthbound360]

With all due respect, do you have any proof? Also, if what you say is true, have you posted about it here (cause I searched the Ness board pretty extensively and found nothing prior to posting about it)? I'd assume you would have given your high post count but to me, it seems like you didn't - please correct me if I'm wrong. If not, why didn't you?

Bruh, naming and claiming techniques is not a big deal, seriously. That's probably why he didn't do it. Techs are most often given names for convenience sake, so that we don't have to say things like "wavedash at the ground at an angle and slide" (AKA wavedashing).

 

[Noa.]

You don't need to be so aggressive @SapphirePaladin924. People are not out there to steal your technique lol. And it's really not that big a deal.

 

[Teshie U]

it should be called "sapphirepaladaning"

-tesh

 

[FSLink]

I swear, in other fighting game communities things also get discovered, found, and named, but some of the Smash community seems way too much into it sometimes. There seems to be more people waaaaay too eager to try to discover something and "get credit", rather than just share the information and try to figure out what implications it has on the metagame.

 

[DeleteThisAcct]

Bruh, naming and claiming techniques is not a big deal, seriously. That's probably why he didn't do it. Techs are most often given names for convenience sake, so that we don't have to say things like "wavedash at the ground at an angle and slide" (AKA wavedashing).

That's easy for you to say. You already got your "15 minutes of fame", as the saying goes. According to the Smash wikis you discovered the Toy Jacket ability of the Yo-yo glitch, and even got a wiki page for it. I don't think you, or anyone, would be singing the same tune if people just waltzed up and tried stealing credit for that. It's easy for someone who already had their day in the sun to be like ,"Oh, it's no big deal." Personally, I find it a little convenient that the second I bring it forward, others comes out to try and claim it as their own. Yet, if they're telling the truth, they had all the time in the world to share it with the community, but chose not to - which kinda is greedy (if doing so for competitive advantage), and quite frankly, if they keep it to themselves, it's their own damn fault.

@ Noa. @ Earthbound360

To me, it is a big deal. This 'supposedly insignificant' thing and any acknowledgments and recognition for it is important to me, and people should respect that. Like I said before, I'm sure both of you would do the same if in my position.

If it's "no big deal", then why do people want to swoop in and claim credit for it now, so conveniently after i post about it? Look, I'm not trying to be a jerk or a heel about this. Like most people, I'd just like some positive attention / recognition / fame, like past smashers and yourself have for past techs and combos. Is that honestly too much to ask? If I knew it'd cause this much drama, I would've never bothered coming here. Ugh, this is really getting frustrating and becoming more trouble than it's worth. Also, this really doesn't encourage me to find or contribute anything else here, ever. Just saying.

@ Teshie U -_- ...cute. Can you please keep nonconstructive sarcastic comments / ****posting to yourself next time?

 

[Earthbound360]

I have people claim knowledge over things I found a long time ago. Like the PKF slide thing. I don't really care that much when they do, but I do mention that I've been doing it for a while.

I mean sheesh, if it means that much to you then go ahead, claim every technique. No one's going to really fight you for it because we don't typically care that much, so no need to be so defensive about it either.

At the very least, keep your cool. We try to be civil and calm here on Smashboards. No need to verbally jump someone, spout threats to no longer contribute, or cuss. Just mention that you've found it before and be on your merry way.

 

[Noa.]

Like no one really cares. It's just that you're being really aggressive towards other people @SapphirePaladin924.

 

[DeleteThisAcct]

I have people claim knowledge over things I found a long time ago. Like the PKF slide thing. I don't really care that much when they do, but I do mention that I've been doing it for a while.

I mean sheesh, if it means that much to you then go ahead, claim every technique. No one's going to really fight you for it because we don't typically care that much, so no need to be so defensive about it either.

At the very least, keep your cool. We try to be civil and calm here on Smashboards. No need to verbally jump someone, spout threats to no longer contribute, or cuss. Just mention that you've found it before and be on your merry way.

Yeah, I got upset in the beginning because someone tried to claim my discovery without doing any homework on here to see if anyone else claimed it first (either as an honest mistake, or maliciously given the timing and the fact it was a new account with no activity since - I'm not going to apologize for finding that coincidence to be highly suspicious), completely disregarding the rule in the ReadMe post to check before you post, but for the most part, I was, and still am keeping my cool as I sit here trying to explain my point of view very rationally.

People came forward and tried to stake a claim on my discovery. I simply provided timestamped proof of when I made it and then asked anyone who challenged my right to the claim to provide any hard evidence dated earlier than mine.

When I made that simple, harmless, request for proof, several other people felt the need to not only invalidate my feelings and concerns, but then proceeded to criticize me as if I have no right to do so, and give me a hard time about simply asking for the same kind of proof that I provided when making my own claim. If they were able to, I would've stepped down, no questions asked, end of discussion, and life would've went on. However, since they haven't, I'm merely asking for them to retract their claim and bow out; which I feel is both fair, rational, and reasonable.

You're all acting as if I don't have the right to defend my claim on my discovery and contribution.

Futhermore, it's not a "threat". You're overanalyzing since there's no tone in text. I'm just merely stating the obvious, and how I feel about the cause and effect of this. I'm posing the question of if this is what's going to happen any time I bring something new to the table, along with everyone jumping down my throat for defending my claim on it, then why should I even bother? Honestly, I'd like to know. It's simple logic. What incentive do I have? Grief? Frustration? Invalidation? One or more people wanting the same thing I want, who are either willing to simply steal it outright, or despite lacking the due-diligence to post it first making a claim only once it becomes a thing, versus posting their own finds?

As for "cussing", I was openly mocked and disrespected in what is commonly known on Reddit and other forums as a s***post - that's the proper term for it, a post that contributes nothing constructive to the thread and is overall in poor taste and post quality. All I did was simply state it's not appreciated and to please keep such comments to themselves. Again, I did no wrong here.

Again, I ask, if nobody supposedly cares, then why debate me on it? Why criticize me for asserting my claim on it?

Like no one really cares. It's just that you're being really aggressive towards other people @SapphirePaladin924.

How am I being aggressive? I merely told one person to do what even the Saturn Valley thread tells us to do - perform some basic legwork to ensure no one else posted about what you're posting about first, which should be especially important when making a claim on something. Perhaps I was a little harsh in my original reprimanding of that person, but I wasn't wrong in questioning them given the timing and the fact it was a brand new account that hasn't had any activity since. There's been a few trolls in chat recently that perhaps read what I was talking about and I wouldn't put it past them to have wanted to cause trouble.

When another person, who is far more established on here than I stepped forward, I very calmly asked him "with all due respect" to provide proof - especially considering if I were here that long, and discovered something that long ago, I'd have perform the proper due-diligence to claim it in a timely fashion - not conveniently after it's become a thing.

Lastly, I told a third person who was being sarcastic and disrespected me that it wasn't appreciated.

That's not "aggressive towards other people" and again, with all due respect, I'll say this once and only once, you need to learn what aggression is, and the difference between that and asking people to follow the rules, provide proof, and show respect.

With that being said, this thread is becoming degenerate as it's going nowhere other than a circular argument where we're debating whether I have the right to defend my claim or not, and since "nobody cares", I'm going to kindly ask @ Yink to please lock this thread before I get any more of a headache over this nonsense. I'm done debating this.

 

[Yink]

Yes, this thread has gotten a bit out of hand. I'll lock it per your request.

I read everything in the thread (took me a bit) and I will take no side but cautiously remind that we all are part of this board to better ourselves in understanding/using Ness in Smash 4. That's all I have to say.