Forward and Back throw

[JUGGERNAUT043]

Soooooooo i was curious as for the next update that the improvements to ganon will include, i was wondering if we could maybe give the dorf back his Brawl stats on his forward and back throw, the down throw is great i have to say but why not give a player more reason to use the other, the brawl forward and back could both kill on the far sides of the stage in the ball park of 130%+ or maybe slightly lower, now i know this isnt a critical thing and something you may not implement but i just thought itd be nice for him to have that little buff from brawl, give him a situation surprise kill option in the later game like the heavies in front of him somtimes utilize, just a little suggestion if your all taking any from the board thanks

 

[teluoborg]

1 there's a thread for suggestions.
2 Ganon's throw don't kill in Brawl.
3 Ganon doesn't need more kill moves, especially given what follow ups he has from Dthrow

 

[JUGGERNAUT043]

1 that place is a mad house and getting any topic to stay on is hard so i tried direct
2 your wrong they did on the farther edges of the stage
3 a minor improvement pulled directly from a smash game that kills in the 130 and higher percent realm and is situation which ppl seem to love that seems like a step to far to you on a proven failure charecter? you probably one of those guys who puts Ganondorf as a mid to high tier charecter and luigi as a bottom tier right?

 

[Yanoss1313]

While i kind of like the idea, it's not a buff he really needs since Dthrow into Uair, Bair or Fair will kill at some scary percents.

 

[JUGGERNAUT043]

well its a buff in a situational light, anything that helps even a little is a buff, and ganon is the king of minor buffs that mean little and the king of failure lol i respect thta u play ganon as do i but he is AWFUL compared to the cast and after Apex 2014 nobody can say hes good as he stands

 

[teluoborg]

Well I can : hes good as he stands. What now ?

Seriously tho, how will this buff ever help him if it gives him something that he already has ?

If you need Fthrow or Bthrow to kill someone then it's not Ganon who's awful compared to the rest of the cast.

 

[Alter Requiem]

If anything about Ganondorf's grabs deserve a buff/pisses me off, its the 1/4 inch of range his Dashgrab has.
Then again there is his broken as christ Flamechoke to make up for that

 

[Yanoss1313]

well its a buff in a situational light, anything that helps even a little is a buff, and ganon is the king of minor buffs that mean little and the king of failure lol i respect thta u play ganon as do i but he is AWFUL compared to the cast and after Apex 2014 nobody can say hes good as he stands

don't get me wrong, i sort of agree with you. I get more done with Roy these days than my main man Gannon. I was simply stating that a F-throw/B-throw kill isn't what he needs. I just can't think of anything specific that would significantly improve his game without dramatically effecting his play-style.

i did have this one idea that could replace his warloch punch. I was thinking to give him a backhand attack that can reflect projectiles (think of the animation of when he played tennis with link in ocarina) and it could send the opponent at an odd angle when used as a melee attack, like sent them behind him or something.

iunno, that may not be what he needs either, but i'm trying damn it!

 

[_Ganondorf_]

don't get me wrong, i sort of agree with you. I get more done with Roy these days than my main man Gannon. I was simply stating that a F-throw/B-throw kill isn't what he needs. I just can't think of anything specific that would significantly improve his game without dramatically effecting his play-style.

i did have this one idea that could replace his warloch punch. I was thinking to give him a backhand attack that can reflect projectiles (think of the animation of when he played tennis with link in ocarina) and it could send the opponent at an odd angle when used as a melee attack, like sent them behind him or something.

iunno, that may not be what he needs either, but i'm trying damn it!

Well Ganon definitely needs something... on his META thread someone mentioned a "Dark Aura" sort of move that gives him Armor for one hit, the trick is it has to recharge like ROB's Laser. The more you dont use it the more armor you get (super/heavy/light) and if you use it too quickly you get nothing. Its a cool idea I think.

Either way I think Ganon needs; Super armor on his Up B, and Light (or heavy) armor on his smashes they dont have good coverage (aka hit boxes) and for some reason they are all quite a bit weaker than Fox's Up smash?!?! So either a buff to their power and coverage or some type of armor would do. And even though I think it would be cool to have more KO power on his front and back throws what he needs in that area is a better grab range, it seriously sucks that he cant grab well out of shield, sometimes im touching noses with the opponent and i cant grab them also if its a short opponent or he/she is crouching its almost impossible to grab. I understand he has great up throw and down throw but some characters have good throws (Fox's Up throw, Marth's Down throw etc.) and they still have a pretty long reach comparatively, Ganon has horrible reach especially for his speed and his size and a longer grab range would help against shield pressure which Ganon desperately needs

 

[foxygrandpa]

Well Ganon definitely needs something... on his META thread someone mentioned a "Dark Aura" sort of move that gives him Armor for one hit, the trick is it has to recharge like ROB's Laser. The more you dont use it the more armor you get (super/heavy/light) and if you use it too quickly you get nothing. Its a cool idea I think.

Either way I think Ganon needs; Super armor on his Up B, and Light (or heavy) armor on his smashes they dont have good coverage (aka hit boxes) and for some reason they are all quite a bit weaker than Fox's Up smash?!?! So either a buff to their power and coverage or some type of armor would do. And even though I think it would be cool to have more KO power on his front and back throws what he needs in that area is a better grab range, it seriously sucks that he cant grab well out of shield, sometimes im touching noses with the opponent and i cant grab them also if its a short opponent or he/she is crouching its almost impossible to grab. I understand he has great up throw and down throw but some characters have good throws (Fox's Up throw, Marth's Down throw etc.) and they still have a pretty long reach comparatively, Ganon has horrible reach especially for his speed and his size and a longer grab range would help against shield pressure which Ganon desperately needs

please no armor on ganondorf. That's just a lazy design. They need to tweak his moves for sure and give him bigger grabs, but armor would just turn him into bowser.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

please no armor on ganondorf. That's just a lazy design. They need to tweak his moves for sure and give him bigger grabs, but armor would just turn him into bowser.

I dont think it would make him into a Bowser cause their play styles are quite different, But I think super armor on Up B isnt too much to ask for. Besides I said its Either armor OR tweak his moves (smashes mainly) so they have more power and cover more space.

Also Ganondorf wears armor so pretty much every move he has should have armor no? *end sarcasm*

 

[Wrestlemania]

Ganon's Up b is fine, getting back on stages should not be guaranteed. As far as throws go his grab range is something that should seriously be looked at. Because of his height he has a problem with grabbing and jabbing the short characters, as well as his range being based off Captain Falcons. Works for Doug because he has great speed, Ganonpork, not as much.

 

[Yanoss1313]

Ganon's Up b is fine, getting back on stages should not be guaranteed. As far as throws go his grab range is something that should seriously be looked at. Because of his height he has a problem with grabbing and jabbing the short characters, as well as his range being based off Captain Falcons. Works for Doug because he has great speed, Ganonpork, not as much.

this!

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Ganon's Up b is fine, getting back on stages should not be guaranteed. As far as throws go his grab range is something that should seriously be looked at. Because of his height he has a problem with grabbing and jabbing the short characters, as well as his range being based off Captain Falcons. Works for Doug because he has great speed, Ganonpork, not as much.

I think everyone agrees about his grab range, and you brought up a good point since he is a clone of CF he got stuck with the short grab range and although it works for CF it doesn't work for Ganon. Also his Jab does miss short Characters that should probably be looked at as well.

Also the PMBR should take a look at his smashes, because they were designed for a fast character like CF they have short range and don't have large hitboxes, they work great for CF but Ganon not so much especially Down smash. Since Ganon is so slow I think an increase in coverage/hitboxes on his smashes should be implemented and also redesigned to be more unique (look at one of my earlier posts for ideas).

Also can someone explain to me why Fox's Up smash has more KO power, speed and better coverge than any of Ganon's smashes? It just boggles my mind... Speed I understand but KO power and a better hitbox... I'm not saying nerf Fox I just think Ganon needs a buff in that area especially since he hold the Triforce of Power I except him to have the strongest or one of the strongest smashes in the game.

I totally agree a recovery shouldn't be guaranteed but Ike has armor on his Up B and it's perfectly fine, also Bowser has Great hitboxes on his Up B so it protects him well (idk if he has any type of armor on it though) so I don't think its unreasonable for either armor or some type of persistent hitbox (perhaps a darkness aura?) around Ganon to help protect him while recovering, he is a big and slow target I think it's only fair.

 

[Alter Requiem]

Ganon's Up b is fine, getting back on stages should not be guaranteed. As far as throws go his grab range is something that should seriously be looked at. Because of his height he has a problem with grabbing and jabbing the short characters, as well as his range being based off Captain Falcons. Works for Doug because he has great speed, Ganonpork, not as much.

this. this. a thousand times, this. ive griped about this for eons, and would do ganon a great yet balanced service.

 

[teluoborg]

[

Also can someone explain to me why Fox's Up smash has more KO power, speed and better coverge than any of Ganon's smashes? It just boggles my mind... Speed I understand but KO power and a better hitbox... I'm not saying nerf Fox I just think Ganon needs a buff in that area especially since he hold the Triforce of Power I except him to have the strongest or one of the strongest smashes in the game.

That's because the PMBR is not taking his inspiration from the latest version of Melee. See in the latest update (the PAL version) Fox's Usmash and Uair are nerfed (along with the lenght of his up B).

Now I totally agree about the grab part, having it reach lower would be a nice thing.

 

[Justkallmekai]

To be honest, I hardly use Ganon's throws at all I'll Uthrow once just to get that amazing Fair in, but I really can't remember what his Bthrow Fthrow and Dthrow are.

 

[CORY]

To be honest, I hardly use Ganon's throws at all I'll Uthrow once just to get that amazing Fair in, but I really can't remember what his Bthrow Fthrow and Dthrow are.

duuuuuuuuuuuuude. duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.

dthrow is dabess. it's like melee shiek level, only held back by ganon's stubby trex arm grab range. dthrow chain grab into dthrow-fair makes you feel like a real man.

 

[Justkallmekai]

duuuuuuuuuuuuude. duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.

dthrow is dabess. it's like melee shiek level, only held back by ganon's stubby trex arm grab range. dthrow chain grab into dthrow-fair makes you feel like a real man.

Lol, maybe I'll use his Dthrow more now!

 

[Prince Longstrok]

Lol, maybe I'll use his Dthrow more now!

you should.

Chain downthrows into the backhand of justice. <3

 

[Justkallmekai]

you should.

Chain downthrows into the backhand of justice. <3

lol, I figured that out like yesterday.

 

[CORY]

you should.

Chain downthrows into the backhand of justice. <3

sir, it's called "kitten gauntlet"

 

[Prince Longstrok]

sir, it's called "kitten gauntlet"

Are you being serious or just joking around?..

Because if youre serious, that is literally the best name i e ever heard xD <3

 

[CORY]

it's official name is "hidden gauntlet". that' just a hop skip and jump away from kitten gauntlet, so my friends dubbed it that and it's stuck.

so, please, spread this tradition around >: D

 

[Yanoss1313]

it's official name is "hidden gauntlet". that' just a hop skip and jump away from kitten gauntlet, so my friends dubbed it that and it's stuck.

so, please, spread this tradition around >: D

oh, i SO will

 

[Wrestlemania]

Kitten Gauntlet is my move of choice.

 

[Prince Longstrok]

This is an important day for us Ganon players..

All hail, the kitty gauntlet

 

[Shin_Mazinkaiser]

Level with me here.

What if, right. . ?

What IF. .Ganon's grab reach were you know. . .increased? So he y'know. . .DOESN'T have the worst grab length in the game.

I'm not asking for Fire Emblem grab reach here.

But you'd be crazy if you legitimately don't think that an increased grab range ALONE would make Ganon 90,000,000,150,000,100% better as a whole.

 

[Prince Longstrok]

Level with me here.

What if, right. . ?

What IF. .Ganon's grab reach were you know. . .increased? So he y'know. . .DOESN'T have the worst grab length in the game.

I'm not asking for Fire Emblem grab reach here.

But you'd be crazy if you legitimately don't think that an increased grab range ALONE would make Ganon 90,000,000,150,000,100% better as a whole.

Thats some dangerous thinking there, buddy.

 

[CORY]

Level with me here.

What if, right. . ?

What IF. .Ganon's grab reach were you know. . .increased? So he y'know. . .DOESN'T have the worst grab length in the game.

I'm not asking for Fire Emblem grab reach here.

But you'd be crazy if you legitimately don't think that an increased grab range ALONE would make Ganon 90,000,000,150,000,100% better as a whole.

teluoborg said it, and i agree, it's probably more important to give him a bit lower reach on his grab, than a bit longer reach. there're too many random move animations that just put things under ganon's hand (primarily on already small characters : /), and combined with ganon's crap tier oos options, that makes many things safe on his shield that shouldn't be

 

[BladeOFLucas]

teluoborg said it, and i agree, it's probably more important to give him a bit lower reach on his grab, than a bit longer reach. there're too many random move animations that just put things under ganon's hand (primarily on already small characters : /), and combined with ganon's crap tier oos options, that makes many things safe on his shield that shouldn't be

I feel like those are both really important things for Ganondorf, so why not do both. Make a slight alteration to the length of his grab animation(maybe give it slightly better speed oos), and then widen the grab box so he can grab lower as well. Scarier changes have been made in PM

 

[CORY]

his grab speed is actually pretty much standard (frames 6-7) and the wind down at the end is also pretty standard, iirc. it's the range of the grab that kills him, when combined with his other overall oos options.