Forget Nerfs! What buffs would be most beneficial to your main(s)?

[Munomario777]

I've used Toon Link like maybe half a dozen times since he first became a fighter. How is he different in SSB4?

Spoiler: Changes

Toon Link has some important buffs from Brawl to SSB4, to his speed and hookshot. However, some big nerfs have been made, mostly to his power, recovery and combo ability. Despite this, he still remains to be a very powerful and formidable opponent.

• Toon Link is slightly heavier than in Brawl.
• Toon Link's falling speed has increased.
• Toon Link dashes faster.
• Toon Link rolls much faster.
• Hookshot on the ground has significantly less ending lag.
• Hookshot can also grab onto aerial foes now.
• In the 3DS version, the hookshot follows a straight path like Link's hookshot in Super Smash Bros.[1]. However, in the Wii U version, the hookshot limps once fully extended, like it did in Brawl, and most other Link's hookshot. They both seem to behave the exact same regardless.
• Hookshot in the air can latch on to ledges from a much greater distance, up to three times the distance it used to.
• Hookshot can only be used to grab the edge of the stage twice. In order to be able to grab it again, Toon Link must land or get hit.
• Toon Link now swings more realistically when hanging off the edge on his Hookshot, now being able to swing under the stage, as opposed to halting all momentum just below the edge.
• Aerial Hookshot now has very minor knockback growth, becoming slightly more apparent at percents above 100%.
• Forward smash has been sped up, and has more vertical reach.
• The window of time that the A button can be pressed after the first hit of forward smash in able to activate the second hit has been significantly tightened, leading to less accidental activations of the second hit, but making it so that one cannot use the delay as much in order to hit with the second hit.
• Damage on the second hit of his Forward Smash has been reduced from 13% to 11%.
• His grab aerial comes out much faster.
• Up throw has less base knockback, allowing for better follow-ups.
• Back throw's knockback has been dramatically increased, being able to KO reliably at higher percents.
• Hero's Bow charges faster and travels further charged.
• Arrows can no longer be Quickdrawn.
• Boomerang travels a longer distance.
• If a Bomb connects with the opponent or their shield, the blast radius will not affect the user.
  • If the opponents grab the bombs and throw them back, the explosion won't harm them either.
• Toon Link's air speed has been reduced.
• The third hit of Jab had its damage reduced from 5% to 4%.
• Forward tilt now has a new sourspot at the base of the blade. The semi-spike sweetspot is now solely located at the centre of the blade.
• Up tilt lost most of its KO power, and had its damage reduced from 9% to 5%.
• Up tilt has been sped up, and works better as a combo and damage-racking attack.
• Down tilt had its damage reduced from 9% to 7%.
• At low percents, the chance of tripping an opponent with a Down tilt has been raised from 40% to 100%.
• The base of the blade during Dash attack had its damage reduced from 10% to 6%.
• Dash attack can no longer trip opponents, only resulting in knocking them in the air.
• Up smash had its damage at minimal charge reduced from 15% to 13%.
• Neutral air had its damage reduced from 10% on both hits to 7% and 6% on the first and second hits.
• Back aerial does 11% damage as opposed to 10%.
• Back aerial has much more ending lag, to the point where only one can be fit in a single short hop, as opposed to two.
• Back aerial's landing lag has also been increased.
• Up aerials late hit now does 11% as opposed to 12%.
• Down aerial now goes through opponents, as opposed to bouncing on them. This means only one hit can connect, reducing the possible damage from two hits to one, and also making this move more unsafe to use.
• Down aerial's windbox size and power has been reduced.
• Down aerial's damage on a late, non-meteoring part of the attack does 12% as opposed to 13%.
• Down throw has higher knockback growth, limiting its use at higher percentages.
• Spin Attack covers less vertical and horizontal distance
• It easier for all hits of Spin Attack to connect, making this a more powerful finisher.
• Spin Attack now has a green sword trail, which resembles that seen from the move in The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker.
• Toon Link's new permanent ledge attack does 7%, as opposed to 8% or 10%. It also has the reduced vertical range of his old edge attack above 100%.
• Toon Link's new ledge attack is much faster then both of his old ledge attacks.
• If Toon Link hits Grab in the air while holding a bomb, instead of just dropping his bomb, he now drops his bomb and uses his hookshot at the same time. This makes it impossible to use any of his bomb advanced techniques, like the ZAC, iZAC, etc. However, the ability to use these attacks at the same time open up possibilities for new advanced techniques.
• Triforce Slash's damage has been reduced from 78 to 60.
• Down smash's first hit has higher knockback growth, limiting the move's damage racking utility but enhancing its knockback power.
• Down smash's damage has been reduced from 7% and 11% to 6% and 7%.
• Side taunt now shows Toon Link watching a Wind Waker-styled fairy as it flies around him.[2]

• Source

 

[Luxent]

- Revert to how he was in Brawl. He was virtually perfectly balanced in brawl. All of his moves now have greater startup lag, less knockback, and ultimately, the hitboxes are so much smaller.

I have actually abandoned him in Smash4.

 

[SmasherMaster]

: Less lag, and she should have Din's Fire and the Phantom cause her to fall into the helpless state.
: More air game...

 

[Iceweasel]

Marth: Increase range of sword, decrease endlag on DAir, give him an actual grab range

Falcon: Make UAir>Up B a true combo, decrease landing lag on Knee

Zero Suit: Except for FSmash and maybe DSmash, completely revert her to her Brawl version.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

: More air game...

Isn't that kinda the point?

 

[ffdgh]

Give peach a bit more running speed and air speed.
Faster fast fall.
Remove up smash's sour spot.
Slightly faster vegetable pull

 

[Squaddle]

Hitboxes that actually match samus's onscreen animation

I'm looking at you, Fmash & Upsmash

 

[SphericalCrusher]

I'd love for Link to have the speed of Marth in Melee and to be able to fly like Kirby. No... seriously, I would love his down B to drop a lot faster... like, Toon Link fast. I understand why it's slower though but it's a little TOO slow. I would be happy with any kind of speed increase.

 

[Toonation]

grab ledge when down-Bing facing away from ledge. Have less lag time on yoshi's grab.

Egg Roll... maybe have a speed buff or completely remove it?? I accidentally go into egg roll when reverse command garbing or reverse Egg Tossing

Edit misread topic lol

 

[Davregis]

Better airspeed, higher jumps, hitboxes match trails better, larger tail sweetspot

more fire effects

 

[muddykips]

Having yoshi's upb refresh after grabbing the ledge would be nice :l

 

[Zodiacx10]

- Revert to how he was in Brawl. He was virtually perfectly balanced in brawl. All of his moves now have greater startup lag, less knockback, and ultimately, the hitboxes are so much smaller.

I have actually abandoned him in Smash4.

this...a 1000 times this. i don't understand why they made g&w so poor in this game. all his moves/aerials have a ton of end lag and a good amount of start up time. he is kind of slow, very light, and not that strong.

he is now like a "high risk, low reward" character

*sigh* y u gotta do this mashpotato soccerguy?

 

[Networker1]

You should probably use the edit button next time bruh


- Make Up air like Fox's (i.e better kill power)

Didn't see that the first post went through, so I added on before trying again.

 

[Ferblantier]

Pre-1.04 Greninja. That is all.

 

[Jords2Good]

I would buff sonic's neutral B, his homing attack to have better aim and not be stupid sometimes. Im not sure why it has to move away from the opponent when the opponent does a smash attack. Thats kinda dumb.

 

[MarioMeteor]

For the love of God, let Doc recover!
Give him his 8% Vitamins back, maybe make his Down smash like Melee's.
Make it so that Jumpman actually lives up to his name. Give him some goddamn range, please.
Restore Luigi to his former disgustingly good recovery in Brawl. Give him his old Fire Jump Punch back.
Restore Rosalina to how she was before the patch, although being able to escape throws and an 8 second re spawn time was a bit much.
Give Jigglypuff a tether recovery and a long range grab with her hair curl, tuft, thing. Restore Pound to how it was in Brawl. Make her up air useful. Melee-ify Rest.
Give Lucario his old smash attacks and neutral air back. Give ExtremeSpeed landing lag equal to how hard he lands. Moving an inch shouldn't make Lucario faceplant.
Give Ike a shockwave attack.

 

[Buffoon]

I would buff sonic's neutral B, his homing attack to have better aim and not be stupid sometimes. Im not sure why it has to move away from the opponent when the opponent does a smash attack. Thats kinda dumb.

While we're at it; Homing Attack should not target Olimar's Pikmin and Duck Hunt's barrels.

 

[Jords2Good]

While we're at it; Homing Attack should not target Olimar's Pikmin and Duck Hunt's barrels.

including Lumas........well I guess luma makes sense but still.

 

[Zylach]

Seriously, store-able phantom would immediately bump Zelda up to middle tier no questions asked.
Removing the freefall from Din's shouldn't even be a buff. It shouldn't be in the game in the first place. Period.
Why does she have some of the worst landing lag in the game? The landing lag on her aerials are worse than some heavies (Dedede and Ike come to mind).
There's a blind spot on ftilt that makes me sad. Removing that makes me not sad.
Usmash is terrible and also makes me sad. Brawl usmash makes me not sad.

 

[Zodiacx10]

Seriously, store-able phantom would immediately bump Zelda up to middle tier no questions asked.
Removing the freefall from Din's shouldn't even be a buff. It shouldn't be in the game in the first place. Period.
Why does she have some of the worst landing lag in the game? The landing lag on her aerials are worse than some heavies (Dedede and Ike come to mind).
There's a blind spot on ftilt that makes me sad. Removing that makes me not sad.
Usmash is terrible and also makes me sad. Brawl usmash makes me not sad.

all of Zelda's aerials are strong as hell though

 

[Tino]

One thing I forgot to mention:
make her heavier and stronger but faster version of Ganondorf so that way, she'll be completely "broken". Let's see how the haters like it.

 

[RorschachDM]

I would make sheiks bomb NOT set you into special fall. The amount of times I've tried to bouncing fish back onto stage, only to use the bomb...

And Zelda's Din Fire. Like WTF is this? They obviously don't like the duo.

 

[SpandexBullets]

Moar airspeed. Need the Bizzarophile

I used pro glider and smooth landing, so he's buffed already (stats balanced except for a small bit of POWAH, +7 attack) Exactly his Melee airspeed and returned the power of his devastating aerials.
That said, we should REALLY use equipment - half these nerfs can be made somewhat achievable; falco's/fox's faster falling speed, jigglypuff's invasive airgame, Marth with very little landing lag etc

 

[_gold_]

Once his bike is destroyed, let him have his bike parts, like in Brawl.

 

[RBreadsticks]

Being able to do an air dodge while in Up B and or changing his Up B to something that does damage with a hitbox at the top of his arms.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Grounded meteor smashes NOT techable or make it very very precise. This would help a LOT of characters, make the game more fun with more bouncing around and combos. Right now the tech window is way too large. Make it 1 frame.
Enlarge Samus' d-air spike hitbox area to have it match onscreen animation. Make grab speed faster OR make grab ending faster. Or both.

 

[C3CC]

NEEDS to get rid of her attacks' ending lag. They make her ridiculously punishable.
Come on, Luma should be able to do something while she's being grabbed. I don't care if that's broken because bias.
Less ending lag on his Smash attacks.
Yoshi Bomb should have its 64 properties, kill more easily and have less ending lag.

 

[TheRealBlueBlur]

PLEASE ADD GLIDING SAKURI

But really, I loved the idea of gliding in brawl, and I was a bit disappointed when it was removed. It was arguably Meta Knight's biggest nerf.

 

[TheUsualSuspect]

What would you improve about your mains if given the opportunity?

Give diddy back his 2nd banana pls

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

all of Zelda's aerials are strong as hell though

That doesn't mean much when they're impossible to land

 

[Tempus]

Everyone is saying more air game, but I don't think that suits him. That said, he should have the ability to sweet spot on the ledge, because not having that really sucks.

Second, he should have an auto-guard mechanic, where he auto-guards attacks (like a boxer does, with his fists up). Auto-guarding takes double shield damage, and when the shield breaks it acts like a normal shield break. Which is coincidentally what a boxer whose guard gets broken in real life is kind of like. This would make Mac safer (he would spend less time in the air because of the guards), but at the same time you'd want to play even more like an outboxer (avoiding hits because a shield break is an instant death for someone with Mac's recovery.

It would make him even more like a real life boxer, mitigate his lack of recovery, compliment his 'hit, but don't be hit' playstyle, and yet give him a clear way for an opponent to exploit his recovery with a shield break/charged smash attack.

 

[CubicBurrito45]

or - Please reduce lag on aerials and improve combo game a bit that's all I want Sakurai

 

[SpandexBullets]

M

Everyone is saying more air game, but I don't think that suits him. That said, he should have the ability to sweet spot on the ledge, because not having that really sucks.

Second, he should have an auto-guard mechanic, where he auto-guards attacks (like a boxer does, with his fists up). Auto-guarding takes double shield damage, and when the shield breaks it acts like a normal shield break. Which is coincidentally what a boxer whose guard gets broken in real life is kind of like. This would make Mac safer (he would spend less time in the air because of the guards), but at the same time you'd want to play even more like an outboxer (avoiding hits because a shield break is an instant death for someone with Mac's recovery.

It would make him even more like a real life boxer, mitigate his lack of recovery, compliment his 'hit, but don't be hit' playstyle, and yet give him a clear way for an opponent to exploit his recovery with a shield break/charged smash attack.

Cutting his dodge time in half would cover most of that, like a super quick dodge, allowing equally quick punishes, whilst also requiring all of his dodges to be very on point.

Get dodgy dodger equipment.

 

[Modular Zeal]

Uuuuhhh... I want Jigglypuff's rest to have a larger hit box and more powerful knock-back...
jk
What I would really like is if Pikachu's up smash was as powerful as it was on Melee, I always try to use it hoping to kill, but it just isn't enough.

 

[wingedarcher7]

Make 's dair more reliable to land. Sweet spotting it this time around feels so difficult.

 

[SpandexBullets]

Uuuuhhh... I want Jigglypuff's rest to have a larger hit box and more powerful knock-back...
jk
What I would really like is if Pikachu's up smash was as powerful as it was on Melee, I always try to use it hoping to kill, but it just isn't enough.

This is the best Rest we've seen yet; the easiest to land, the most damaging, and doesn't KO at ridiculously low percentages like Melee's rest.
Also flower.

 

[Modular Zeal]

This is the best Rest we've seen yet; the easiest to land, the most damaging, and doesn't KO at ridiculously low percentages like Melee's rest.
Also flower.

flower?

 

[G-Guy]

less endlag on dair + faster fire rate in air

that's all I really want for my mains, all the others are perfect =)

 

[Drazerg]

: Nair hurtbox should come a little earlier
: When out of certain tome, a lesser version of it takes it's place similar to Levin/Bronze sword or increased range on dash attack
: Side B reverts to melee counterpart
: Side B reverts to melee counterpart
: Enable Chargeable Neutral B mid air + b reversing
: No Gale Boomerang Please
: Bike dismount quicker
: Increased Dmg output when at low% and reduce latter Dmg
: Up B landing cancel similar to normal land
:

Spoiler

Seriously, store-able phantom would immediately bump Zelda up to middle tier no questions asked.
Removing the freefall from Din's shouldn't even be a buff. It shouldn't be in the game in the first place. Period.
Why does she have some of the worst landing lag in the game? The landing lag on her aerials are worse than some heavies (Dedede and Ike come to mind).
There's a blind spot on ftilt that makes me sad. Removing that makes me not sad.
Usmash is terrible and also makes me sad. Brawl usmash makes me not sad.

Directional aerials for should have tons of lag, but her Nair could have a slightly larger hit box.

And finally...

Spoiler

: Standing grab does not grab in front but rather far away like: "Distant Nosferatu".
Neutral B - Charge continuously grows and engulfs the entire stage if charge long enough.
Side B - If successful, opponent gains brawl tripping mechanic.
Up B - May act after teleporting.
Down B - After confusion ends, opponents specials randomize in custom moves.
Bair - Range and knockback increase by 420% from melee
Upthrow - Kills at 0% and removes 2 stocks

 

[Drazerg]

Sorry for the second post, can someone show me the proper way to use spoilers?