SneaselSawashiro
Smash Apprentice
(This is also partially meant to be an apology to those I've tossed my ventings to, since people have better things to do.)
(This also will heavily reference the differences between Japanese and American competitive fighting game scenes; who should we point fingers towards when an issue comes up? That's not for me to decide.)
Hello, SneaselSawashiro here, a dude who has a bit of other accounts on other forms of social media and the like.
I've played all the prior Smash games at least once, with Melee/DX being the least times. Smash 3DS is my main access to Smash in general nowadays, meaning my access to certain advanced c-stick techniques is outright cut-off.
You may have seen me on For Glory as either SneaselSWS, Chengqiao, Zhuuyoh or Juuyoh. The latter three are all the same reading for the name 朱橋; one's in pinyin while the other two are unique forms on'yomi for the name. "Zhuu" is just a unique way of typing/writing "Juu" in kana/romaji.
But moving on. I usually play
, , , ,/ and . is a recent pick-up.
And yes, I'm guilty of using as well on For Glory like the scrub I am (that and he's always fun and relaxing to use; bless your sacred voice samples for this character, Mr. Ryou Horikawa).
BTW, I'm also a VERY HUGE voice actor nut on the anime and anime-video game side of things in both English and Japanese (I can do impressions as well), but more on that later.
I've used to first play as during my noob days (I swear to god damn god, Miyuki Sawashiro =__=; ), but I eventually used A LOT of before starting to play online and thus start buying the DLC.
I'm also very self-deprecating. lol
The point I want to talk about with this long post is the insights from many different viewpoints I've noticed on what makes For Glory very difficult to deal with for many different players, myself included.
I will say first off that I'm on the lower-end of high-level of play; I'm in no mess a good player and I know how much I get **at on.
Right now, I've had some very heavy frequent salt I needed to recover from. And while I was at my workplace, I thought long and hard about how to express myself.
This also ties into other things I've been looking into on other forums as well.
This post is for those who have been going through stuff like I have, and is there to read for those who want a more "reasonable" side to things.
This may have opinions of mine that shift from one side to another, but most of it will be from both perspectives.
Without further ado......
For Glory. AKA Gachi in Japanese (lit. an abbreviation for serious, diligent, honest or earnest to quote Tangorin).
Clearly people have been cra*-posting about this mode for a long while. Myself included. It induces heavy saltiness into the hearts and souls of Smashers both novice and pro alike like no other.
Some people say it's the sign of the devil, to speak it out in a pseudo-PhantomStrider-like voice on YouTube, while others say that it has its merits.
First off, I'm going the say the latter is mainly due to very little choice on certain people's parts. You can blame them if you want or emphasize with them, I somewhat don't care. (I think...?)
But...what is it that really makes it bad? One thing is the lack of platforms which encourages camping and those with good ground-games to dominate.
Let's list some very debated stuff from collective things I've read up on via other forums:
[1. Lag]
Lagging via bad Wi-Fi or some form of input lag.
Never go into battle with unneeded weight and limitations, but know to accept which limits you have placed on yourself out of choice.
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This is quite common and unavoidable in any form of online multiplayer setting.
Even though the Smash Bros. series in general is very easy to pick up in terms of innovating the platform/mascot-fighter genre, execution is still a must when it comes to competitive sports/gaming in general, as well as muscle memory. It's true for any fighting game and it's often one of the most criticized elements that prevent newcomers from being motivated enough to invest time into learning how to play fighting games.
Sadly, most of the time, America or at least certain people who live in closed-off area with no easy way to access a tournament tend to have to rely on their internet connection for some actual competition.
Thus, it's very easy for non-professional players who play in the comfort in their homes to experience any form of lag that messes up their move; be it through some slow-downs or not having your inputs be registered. It's indeed a relate-able frustrating experience.
But sadly, like how people on the internet act, they make a meme out of it and thus take it for granted in general. This starts up the blame game in that some people may outright blame their losses or any unintentional action on lag. Sometimes it's hard to see if lag may really be the real reason why people suffer a lot on certain online gaming communities, but in Smash 4, the Smash Icon that pops up on the corner of the screen is a clear indicator for both sides.
Personally for me, yes lag is annoying at times, but it doesn't always bother me. The thing I'm more worried about is making sure I don't fall into attacks whenever I'm trying to land back down vertically and get edge-guarded like a dumb***.
But this brings me to my next point when talking about "how people take the lag blame for granted". Moving on to....
[2. Spammers and character misuse]
People who perform the same action or use the same tactic/character over and over without any thought, as well as harm the reputation of character loyalists.
Strength is meaningless without purpose and form, for it turns it into non-motivational anger and the tarnishing of other honest spirits.
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Some insightful sides of the internet will talk about the clear-cut difference between zoning and spamming.
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Zoning involves timing your projectiles or whatever disjointed/long-ranged tool you have in accordance to your foe(s)' actions, allowing you to manipulate the way to approach you or the situation in general.
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Spamming however, doesn't even involve any part of that thought process, and usually leads to just mindlessly doing something over and over again expecting something different; it's akin to the definition of insanity.
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These are the kinds of people I see everyone complaining NON-STOP about. For me, I don't see too much of an issue with these people, but I have fought a certain player who spammed forward aerials non-stop to wall me out. Due to my poor skill level and lack of experience, it was impossible for me to approach due to me using via him having only average mobility compared to 's better horizontal air speed.
But there's many many more examples we can go on about. We've all seen people complain about and players who don't happen to be named Izaw spamming Hero's Bow & Arrow non-stop as well as bombs just to punish any reckless actions due to the aforementioned lag, making them very hard to counter. People had a field day being livid at players due to their hard-to-punish ground game via the layout of For Glory stages/Final Destination but at the same time mock his inconsistency at being a solid character due to his poor recovery (thank you ZeRo, for providing insights on Little Mac's poor grab range); this even happens quite a bit even after his nerfs and how Masahiro Sakurai himself expressed how low his win-rate actually is.
But nowadays, we often see players spamming his advantages non-stop, as well as a ton of people fuming with a lot of hate towards (I too, have experienced her raw power firsthand lol). That much I do understand. But I also understand that some professionals and other players do state that no-one really knows how to fight her yet. And of course, people like Omni will love to make sure burns in his own fire mixed with his pee.
Then of course, there are the people who always use for disrespect montages, whether they know how to use him or not. And yes, as I've said before, I use from time to time as IntroSpecktive roasts a player like me using him on For Glory like a scrub for various reasons.
I do indeed understand, all of us hate these characters and/or the players that main them; but for some players like a player that I've seen on this place from time to time, it also leads me to realize that there are people who love playing these characters just because they do.
Because of the spammers however, most passionate-character loyalists are often given such a bad name and are often left in shame due to seeing their favorite character be degraded by the cries of a salty fool like me and many others due to how a good size of the infamous playerbase misuses these characters.
There's also and to look out for too, since they like a few of the aforementioned characters are all pretty nasty with their advantages gained on the format of For Glory.
Most of the time, it's due to people outright giving subpar players like me a hard time; most of these characters have advantages that can be mindlessly spammed to give non-pro-players a very hard time.
Players such as I who don't have the skillset needed often have whined about such things, and believe me, I've fought these characters after a long while of fighting a bigger variety and I struggle a lot due to pressure, anxiety and frustration at some of their patterns mixed in with good frame data. ( frame 1 jab after whiffing a smash attack, anyone?)
However, spamming also applies to rolling. The Smash Bros. series barring Melee/DX (arguably due to many Marvel vs. Capom 2-styled oversights that create a ton of confusing yet exciting tech) is quite simple to pick up, and thus very simple options are bound to be abused over others. What's more, the removal/nerfings of some of the most effective mobility options limits Smash 4 to be just like J-Stars Victory Vs.: a bait-and-punish type of fighting game.
Due to this, defensive play is often more infamously reliable than the existing offensive options due to them being too unsafe. I will outright admit that even I have a guilty habit of rolling a lot, but mainly to the point where I use it to back out of danger and/or avoid attacks.
Even then, roll-spamming to some is more of a nuisance than a real huge pain. Skilled players can often find a way to punish a roll since it's never as versatile as dash-dancing (nerfed since Brawl/X), perfect-pivoting and/or wavedashing (removed). Sadly, these are advanced techniques, so not everyone is going to be able to use these types of movement options.
Let's get into how a majority of American players play regarding this (and I mean MAJORITY, NOT EVERYONE).
American players often play solely for results and to win due to money matches (and thus since there's a prize there's more at stake and thus more vitriol).
A lot of players play top/high-tiers just for results and to ensure they win most of the time. A majority of other players sadly, follow suit. Both novice and professional. Character loyalists are a rare dime a dozen.
Japanese players on the other hand, play a lot more for quality, and strive to improve on their tactics even if what they're doing is already working, to quote TV Tropes. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/FightingGameCommunity
Sadly, sometimes we spam because that's all we know; and it could be ingrained into our systems due to another aforementioned vital element to fighting games; muscle memory.
Sometimes, "Damn You, Muscle Memory" via TV Tropes will be in play, and some bad habits die hard.
Ironically, spamming can also be towards the usage of powerful tools again, without purpose. It's a bit common for players around my level to forget about fundamentals despite their importance, cause it's seems a lot easier to pay attention to someone saying "this is all the hard/complicated stuff-and-techs that you can clearly notice that's been displayed in a big red box with large bold text".
All in all, it's either you're screwed over by the spamming or not. Your skillset really is what matters against spammers, and sadly even for those who are on a pro-level, spamming can easily throw them off if they don't expect it.
Here's to quote one comment by KristineR in PR Balrog's statement in 2014 about the American FGC http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...-will-teach-even-if-it-means-theyll-get-beat/:
"Some people in the scene have been saying hey lets do training sessions together and make the scene better for years. Some players don’t bother going to sessions because they don’t want their tech figured out. The fact that this discussion is now being taken serious only after PR Balrog got his butt handed to him is a testament that it will take years for this scene to begin to get to the level it needs to, to grow.
I have said it myself the play style of Japanese players and Americans are totally different. I didn’t need to travel to Japan and get beat up to know this. In this country it’s straight to top tier characters and gimmicks. UMVC 3 is a prime example. There is tech out here with multiple characters but people don’t take the time to find out; they go to what is easy: Vergil, Morrigan, Wesker etc. When the Rocket Raccoon player came from Japan that one year and bodied everyone you started seeing more raccoon players. We don’t innovate over here, we copy."
This ties into the spamming part in that a lot of pros often abuse the highest-level tier of characters just for results, while in Japan there are arguably more character loyalists who strive to always improve our game.
Sometimes, we spam things just to win out of a bad habit, and due to the environment around this nation it's hard to innovate on our own nowadays.
TV Trope: Complacent Gaming Syndrome
Via the Xbox Live community, AKA "That Damn Ken".
This sadly, also leads right into my next point:
[3. Toxic Players]
Jerk***es, ***holes, trolls, whatever, etc., who all test the meaning of your life's decision to even try picking up the same profession they're on.
Everyone seeks their purpose, even if it means stepping on others to achieve it which in itself can be an obstacle for you.
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Note that this also ties into the ambiguous matchmaking system of With Anyone overall. It's a long-running trend that causes anxiety for folks like me, and also it ties into the usages of certain characters and perhaps ditto matches.
This is quite the obvious one. This is inevitable in any online community where people hide behind a screen typing cra* of all sorts. Quite the wretched hive of scum and villainy; you know the drill, you must be cautious.
Tying into the spammers and those who blame lag for their mistakes, nearly EVERYONE complains about sore losers of the highest degree. Those who switch their nametags to saying that you suck and everything, you know?
(Those playing on the 3DS versions should be safe since this nametag issue is much more often mentioned on the Wii U version.)
Surprise surprise, as I've salt-ranted on about before, this applies to the winning side as well. There exist toxic winners too. However, everyone always talks about the toxic losers.
Toxic winners are basically what cause people like me to instantly be discouraged when they suddenly switch characters; or at least switch to certain ones. The most infamous examples I can think of nowadays are either, and . On the other hand, , and tend to be the rare ones. These kinds of players also fish out for "disrespect K.O.s" for their montages, and as you would expect, give the loyalists to these characters a fairly bad name in turn.
Most of the time, these characters have notably overpowering advantages just to make it very hard for you to win, or at least give them a chance at beating you.
They also have a high chance to be the aforementioned spammers, thus they will no doubt show some of their possible bloated egos should they get you to fall for an obvious-yet-rewardingly-punishing pattern of theirs, such as spamming moves/techniques with good frame data just to make sure more salt will take you over.
Even if it's obvious, players will either insult you out of defense if they lose, or they keep abusing these patterns just to make your experience online hell for you if you happen to not have the proper skillset to punish accordingly (and they WILL take advantage of your frustration).
Thus, if you do fall for an obvious pattern often to the point of losing a stock, their display of toxicity is often obvious if they choose to taunt or teabag (even in a situation where you can't fight back such as from a broken shield).
It's all the more merrier to have your online experience to be pure hell and salt.
For the people who lose and switch to these characters, it's a very obvious sign of frustration.
For the people who are curb-stomping then switch, it creates a ton of extra pressure and an extra way to denounce the existence of their opponent. Basically switching to them in general is considered to be a "global-Teemo taunt" in those situations.
I always deal with the latter a lot, since as said before I'm by no means a good player; naturally due to my New 3DS sweating like crazy from me trying to fight as hard and efficiently as I can prior to their switch, I start to lose even more focus and lose opportunities to punish these characters' weaknesses.
This also ties into their mindsets leading into a Morton's Fork; to quote TV Tropes, "Damned if you do, damned if you don't." Both or more/all of your existing options will lead to ****.
If you win against them, they'll most likely wish they had an all-chat feature just to tell you that you won only because they picked someone they weren't good with.
If you lose against them, they'll most likely deem you to be a waste of time and leave, thus leaving you to drown in your own rising sodium levels.
In terms of character switching, A LOT of people also complain about the ditto matches these types of players provide. From what I can imagine and from what I can remember via my own experiences, they're not fun to say the least.
But on the flipside, some players state that some dittos at least provide some insights on what they could do differently with their own character.
Sadly, meeting toxic people is common in this kind of community. It's basically the online side of things, and most of the time it's very hard to improve when there's the pressure of those trying to talk you down when you lose, as well as certain patterns they do that you often fall for just to make your experience a living hell.
For more skilled players though, they would no doubt have their time wasted due to how they met an ***hole while expecting to meet someone of their skill level.
This also applies to Japanese players too; you've heard about the trope "Japanese politeness"; but online communities like this don't discriminate, meaning anyone become an instant donkey-****ing diarrhea buffalo ***wipe the moment they log onto most forums, to mildly put it in AVGN-speak.
In America, it's common to compare the competitive fighting game scene to the Japanese scene; sure, Japanese people play like robots in a way, but MOST (NOT ALL) Americans are a bit more the vitriolic side of things. It makes a bit of sense in that there's more at stake since placing money as a prize in that kind of setting gets anyone going. Cause you're actually winning a prize from it all.
Sadly, this also causes some of us (including dumb ****s like me) to take **** too seriously. It's common for most American players to focus a lot more on winning and the like instead of playing to improve.
However, placing money matches in settings like this is considered to be illegal gambling in Japan, so arguably the scene there has less "hype" going around it as well as their audience being quite quiet in general (but don't get me wrong, some Japanese commentators speak out some hilarious **** lol).
https://youtu.be/0yvFNEWWVIU?t=1m9s, https://youtu.be/0yvFNEWWVIU?t=2m and https://youtu.be/0yvFNEWWVIU?t=12m17s XD
(Funny enough, both Cloud and Baiken have a technique named Garyou Tensei, the Japanese expression/term for a "Finishing Touch".)
Don't get me wrong, hype is good, but sometimes there's proper a place and time for everything; a lesson many of us need to practice and that even I am guilty of not excising properly.
Of course, with these facts pointed out. Who should we point fingers to? Should we really blame America itself for how the fighting game scene is and how most players are pretty toxic? Probably not, since the facts only can cover so much along with opinions as well. That said, it's going to take some time to know how to really fix and/or deal with these issues.
There's also another thing to bring up regarding a guy named Sloth Facts that LaserTimeContributor brings up, Sloth was fighting against a veteran player named Brett in Guilty Gear XX Accent Core.
http://www.lasertimepodcast.com/2014/11/12/the-toxicity-of-the-fighting-game-community/ (More on the link here)
Of course, Brett just thrashed him on top of playing sub-optimally for the hell of it and even threw a taunt in there for good measure. It made Sloth Facts post on his twitter later on in that he was quitting playing Guilty Gear.
Now don't get me wrong, I LOVE Guilty Gear. It was one of the main inspirations next to BlazBlue and Under Night In-Birth to come up with my own set of over 400 original characters for a fighting game-setting in a crossover to boot as well (details mainly seen on my ***tty Devianart). But fo sho, False Roman Cancels are all frame-perfect-tools that need to be performed correctly for the best optimal performance, which is why I like watching it a lot instead of truly playing it.
Of course, Sloth Facts in the comments section indeed got some flak for just saying "he quit". It's very common to get discouraged, that much I agree. But I also do understand where people are coming from when they call him out on just "giving up".
Sometimes people are there to discourage us by a ton when it comes to playing something that's fun but also happens to be competitive. Japan normally doesn't do that when it comes to helping others improve from what I've heard.
Plus, to also quote Patrick Miller, a LOT of us "punish mistakes" A LOT. Sloth Facts all because he got stomped and decided to stop playing GG, got some flak for giving up as aforementioned.
Also, Brett most likely at that time was trolling the match just so he wouldn't get placed any higher just so he could sleep in the next day before the tourneys. So it also happened to be more bad luck for Sloth Facts.
Also, that very player and a few others made a very good point in that there needs to be ranked system. Granted, Sakurai (barring the fact that you may instead actually reference Cloud's Japanese VA, Takahiro Sakurai) may have not wanted to include a ranked system due to it creating some gaps between people and even more forms of bullying due to rankings, but at the same time it would allow less curb-stomps to happen.
But in the end, Masahiro Sakurai (not Takahiro lol) may have wanted this to still just be a party-game-like setting after all, but who's to say it ended up for the better or worse?
However, this also ties into the need for a ranked system; the matchmaking of For Glory often tends to be very random and it's very hard to know if you're fighting someone equal to your skill level or not.
Thus, this all leads into someone like me; you would often expect others to be out to get you and for anxiety to take over during the match. It's not fun at all.
The opposite of this tends to be players switching characters on you just to show that they don't think much of you as an opponent, due to how easily you may be failing against him.
Taunting patterns is all that's needed to foresee a toxic player, folks. If needed, just quit while you can, even if you think you can find a way to adapt and beat their cheap-as-hell patterns, chances are you're just like me in that no matter what you do they'll always crush you with the last laugh.
Guess what? Remember the old days that Rage-quitting has been a much more serious issue in certain games? I've rage-quit a few times before, I shall outright admit. And hell, via Older Than Dirt, someone would literally grab the Go board and fling it out the window into a nearby pond, breaking apart their precious shishiodoshi in the process.
Most of us try to fight to win, and never to learn; I know I'm guilty of this since I always feel like by myself, I hit a bit of a wall and I'm not sure what I can actually learn and practice efficiently; doesn't help to be supposedly high-functioning and diagnosed with a possible learning disability like me, but that's my loss. : P
But in the end, these kinds of players also never discriminate in terms of what race they are; they can be Mexican, Spanish, French, Brazilian or whatever for all we know.
And one more small thing among this long topic; these kinds of players will NO DOUBT teabag/taunt spam. If needed, just don't play with them anymore, or just sandbag them. It's not worth it to show them your efforts unless you can truly have a chance to beat them (if you're actually experienced that is).
Naturally, in comes the next topic that ties into who we fight on For Glory.
[4. Lack of communication]
If you're not playing with friends, then doing something with someone new is very ambiguous territory you're daring to cross through.
The unseen enemy is not always the deadliest, but is worth turning into an unpredictable friend when the chance arises.
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One of For Glory's most notable flaws in my honest opinion is no doubt the lack of communication between you and your foe; for MOBA's, it's one thing to include and all-chat-disable feature just so you can focus more on yourself while others help you cover up, but in 1-on-1 fighting games it's another since everything is all on you.
When you beat someone or lose, it's very hard to tell what's going on. Most of the time due to how toxic online communities are in general, and given how humanity is a salt-containing/inducing race, we always *AHEM*
*In a dramatic echoing voice* ASSUME THE NEGATIVE~ *Points finger to himself*
(THE MORE YOU KNOW)
But alas, yes. This is also justified in that for sure, trying to share info outright with strangers isn't normally very safe. So of course just for safety's sake, we can't use our custom taunt bubbles in those settings.
But on the flipside, due to the aforementioned, I shall quote the aforementioned Patrick Miller's article on Shouryuuken.com's forums: (here's the link: http://shoryuken.com/2013/10/16/opinion-toxic-community-and-building-a-better-fgc/)
(Did I really have to use "aforementioned" twice in a row in the same sentence?)
"Frankly, I’m not surprised. Think about the first time you played Street Fighter against someone online — how much harder it is to read someone when you’re not standing next to them, how frustrating it is to get bodied and not be able to immediately request a runback, how salty you feel when you just know that the other person isn’t accepting your match request because you got beaten so badly that they think you’re just a waste of their time. The lack of that face-to-face connection makes it harder to empathize with someone else, whether you’re doing that to get in their head for a game, or whether you’re posting a comment on an article somewhere. And without that empathy, it makes it much harder to care about Phase 2) Help Each Other Improve — which sucks, because that’s the part that makes us a community, not just a group of people who happen to play the same games."
This part in my honest opinion sums it up perfectly. I clearly remember having fun when battling online face-to-face with someone or actually being around people in general playing the game during my times at anime conventions such as SacAnime; it was no doubt a very fun experience.
Playing in the comfort of your home tends to be another thing due to via quoting Patrick Miller, it's pretty much due to most of us in America being solitary gamers and arcades being very scarce nowadays; online play is normally where it's at.
Of course, some people like me would say that this issue needs to be addressed; but I will say that I have nothing against other people who say that leaving it like this should be the way it's meant to be. Either it's too hard to find a good compensation or we're just lazy.
Plus, us acting very salty and failing to control it will lead to fools like me ****-posting and ruining potential chances to make new friends; for all we could know, that one player who was giving you a hard time one way or another could be a troubled-yet-nice guy.
That one player who also then switched to , and then was actually sweet folk; only problem was that I called them out for it due to my saltiness, and that mindset of mine at the time was a problem, I will be frankly honest.
Again, this is due to lack of communication preventing us from finding out about other people enough to allow us to friend them; they could even share the same Smash tag name as another person which leads to even more confusion. And I've heard that one possible option on the Wii U version is to report them.
Sadly on the Wii U version, there's also the aforementioned nametag switching. That's bound to really cause some raising eyebrows.
But thankfully, maybe we don't have to have communication because of one thing; people in communities like this WILL whine their ***es off in order to get what they want (community movements, nerfing characters, etc.). This is why patches were made in the first place for Smash 4.
Plus, one other trait the Wii U version seems to have over the 3DS version is to add anyone as a friend. Toxicity and ambiguity seems to be more rampant on the 3DS version than the Wii U version and aside from quality issues and the usage of c-sticking techniques, people pick Wii U over 3DS often.
This also leads to other types of assumptions as well; most of the time better players will flat-out negatively assume they're fighting only nothing but dumb scrubs who are there to waste their time. I'm assuming most of these better players want to vent on someone like me so they'll bother to kill me with a read I can't foresee at all and taunt me after that to get their point across.
This leads us to assume nearly everyone on For Glory is toxic, even IF you happen to be fighting someone like shofu out of pure coincidence, chances are they'll be confused as to why you'll give up easily (if you happen to have any prior stress).
Also, look at the theory of G.I.F.T. (Greater Internet ****wad Theory), if you will. This is what most of this is in a nutshell.
Of course, this website in general is a great way to communicate, as well as other circles such as Anther's Ladder and Smash Amino.
But then I realized....I have only the 3DS version of Smash 4. I tried out Anther's Ladder but a certain step seemed to prevent me from fully logging on/signing up. What could it possibly be?
This also ties into the next and last (but not least) topic!
[5. Lack of accessibility]
Face it, some of us are just pain born as unlucky, and not everyone has access to the materials needed to "git gud".
Life has a choice to be cruel, and is never perfect for everyone.
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Sadly, some of us are either lazy or as said before, unlucky.
This is EXCLUDING THOSE WHO MAKE UP EXCUSES OF NOT WANTING TO LEARN AND WANTING TO WIN MORE. There exist people like this who may use this sort of thing as a john, so be wary of that.
Sometimes, it's hard/impossible to change a jim (to quote Omni) that wants to stay as your usual "***hole scrub". Let's try our best to pay attention to those who honestly want to take in all the help they need.
As for me, I'm not sure how to really improve. Watching replays would be good enough, but what if something different happens the next match? That's the same kind of confusion that applies to me whenever I was struggling at MOBA's in the past (I'm a bit of an avid League of Legends player).
For me, Anther's Ladder was something I tried...but for some reason, I couldn't fully sign up. Which leads me into my point of "some people might be unlucky".
In America, the nation is damn wide-spread. It takes plane flights and long-hour drives to get to locations with plenty of other people to meet. People can suffer from jet-lag before a tournament starts due to where they live (and they may or may not be the best hometown hero in their profession/Smasher career).
There's also the fact that via the PR Balrog link and in ZeRo's USA vs. Japan video, A LOT of American players often keep a lot of **** to themselves.
Anyone watch one of Chosen's videos on YouTube about how he got SWAT'ed by some "underground" trick-shot community due to him putting up a CoD trick-shot video that they demanded for him to take down or else? Yeah.
It's basically an "every man for himself" sorta of mentality, but it's not very easy to find out what's the actual blame for all of this other than poor luck (Matthew Effect, anyone?). Where you live can really determine how you're going to get your daily dosage of both competitive match-making AND actual practice; thus you're forced to deal with all of the above points as a result for the best possible Smash experience competitive-wise.
Online forums, text and videos can only help with so much compared to being able to find mentorship, even if you need to spend some money for it.
And yet tying into actually find ways to practice AND be able to apply it is a very annoying process for many new players. I myself may be just your run-of-the-mill high-functioning ***hole who can't seem to find out where to apply his weight. And as a result, gets beaten by some reads that could've easily been avoided and often gets mocked on For Glory. : P
But at the same time, one other side can say "those kinds of players are just lazy". And yes, it's true. You're always going to lose to someone who's put more practice and time into the game than you have, and it's true you need dedication if you really like the game you're playing.
And of course, indeed, some people are just much better at practicing their tech and fundamentals way more than others, especially when playing by themselves instead of with nearby friends.
But let's also talk about Japan again; train rides for a few hours are all that's needed to get to Shinjuku to Oosaka for your big tournament. Japan is a smaller and more tight-knit nation with MUCH better internet. They ALWAYS go online for friendless to help each other improve at a solid rate and they're more on top when it comes to posting about tech on the forums.
Then again, you might need to know a decent enough level of Japanese while also working on your public hygiene (and to not be a weeaboo).
There's a reason why the trading mechanic for Pokemon was formed with that in mind (along with insect fighting being popular in the East); Japan was bound to have people who would trade with each other 24/7, despite being a bit stoic towards each other in public in general.
In America, raise your hand if you DIDN'T bother to buy two versions of one generation just so you can trade back-and-forth with yourself and only focus on your favorite version and use the other one as a trading tool.
Exactly.
Sure, I could be bloating up Japan to be so great and all, but didn't I also say that being toxic doesn't discriminate and nearly anyone of any race or gender can turn into a toxic *hit**ck the moment they're online?
That, and Japan pretty plays like Mew2King copies to put it mildly. They're also not used to our vitriolic fighting scene.
Also, there are indeed people that tie into the toxic players part; some people have too much pride to admit that they need to seek help to improve. It's not just the "high-level scrub destroyers'" fault, but also the fault of the scrubs themselves who don't want to admit they need specific things to be better.
Ah, and there's a recent point thanks to Joystick Specialist's Why You Should Quit For Glory video:
[6. Very horrible matchmaking]
It's no secret in that Global Smash Power has very little effect on who you get paired with, and why you see a lot of "get rekt" Smash montages out there.
Your abilities may sometimes be too much for the other person, even if you decided against fighting them in the first place.
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This video around 2:45: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUCl6aRfjfU
It proves a very valid point. And I agree with this guy's many points on this mode.
For sure, For Glory is very inconsistent with its matchmaking, and it's pretty much a good reason why someone like me will struggle a lot, and why there's a TON of those Smashtuber montages.
Chances are, you've seen people get styled-on a lot as aforementioned. https://youtu.be/vaS0SekSy30?t=23s
Probably because the system decided to pair you with a player who has no idea how their matchup works against your character (e.g. that kind of pitiful player is me).
I do agree with Joystick's point of "it's not really Nintendo's fault for making For Glory like this, but they still should've made some improvements on the mode".
But for some of us as mentioned before in "Lack of accessibility", some of us just want a quick match, and on some reasonable ends, Anther's Ladder takes a long time to get set up.
But again, who's to really blame for all of this? How can we fix it?
Honestly, I just posted this long *** thread just so people can at least be aware, and that you're not alone when it comes to experiencing this bull****. I understand. Sometimes we need to learn to control ourselves, and often times we fail at it. We're only human and we make mistakes a lot, even if other fellow humans focus much more on bashing other people's mistakes as hard as possible just to make themselves look like hypocrites.
Granted, this kind of toxic issue is prevalent in every gaming community, but the FGC in America takes the most flak for it due to how hard people had to prove themselves and are unwilling to let go of that mentality to this day.
It's also one reason why I question "who to really blame for all of this?" I don't want to point fingers or anything cause that would make me look even more like a salty fool, and I'm already trying to recover from it.
People want to prove themselves in a setting such as a fighting game or any competitive sport, and yet there are a lot of obstacles to be expected. Scrutiny is to be expected and sometimes the way the game is designed can sometimes even hinder you.
It may take a while for some miraculous fix to come up that will satisfy the huge majority of players, but until then, I want you to look over this and know that these are common issues you may run into unless you're good enough at the game to hold out on your own, and that these kinds of toxic mentalities combined with awkward conditions for players online have been around for a long while.
There's also one more disclaimer I like to add:
Sometimes, majority may not even be the proper word to use. The correct term for some of the scenarios that involve a group of people doing such b.s. would be "vocal minority".
Sadly, most of us gloss over that. I do too, which leads us all to be thinking that nearly everyone thinks in a specific and possibly-immature way.
It's hopefully going to be alright.
Anyway, I hope you enjoyed this very long and dumb post. You can for sure disagree with me on a few things since I'm just like anybody around here. An idiot. Geniuses are hard to come by and I'm for sure not one of them to be frankly honest.
In the end: For Glory is full of toxic spammers and arrogant noob crushers. It's not a fun way to learn the game at all, and many people have gripes with it. Both sides of the story are true and it's wise to try to use special systems to seek friendlies and/or tutelage.
Also, playing as top tiers that you actually are comfortable with and know inside-and-out is no problem at all; me playing as often is one example of "using a mediocre character to force an uphill battle upon oneself". (ty for opening my eyes, ESAM).
(This also will heavily reference the differences between Japanese and American competitive fighting game scenes; who should we point fingers towards when an issue comes up? That's not for me to decide.)
Hello, SneaselSawashiro here, a dude who has a bit of other accounts on other forms of social media and the like.
I've played all the prior Smash games at least once, with Melee/DX being the least times. Smash 3DS is my main access to Smash in general nowadays, meaning my access to certain advanced c-stick techniques is outright cut-off.
You may have seen me on For Glory as either SneaselSWS, Chengqiao, Zhuuyoh or Juuyoh. The latter three are all the same reading for the name 朱橋; one's in pinyin while the other two are unique forms on'yomi for the name. "Zhuu" is just a unique way of typing/writing "Juu" in kana/romaji.
But moving on. I usually play
, , , ,/ and . is a recent pick-up.And yes, I'm guilty of using
as well on For Glory like the scrub I am (that and he's always fun and relaxing to use; bless your sacred voice samples for this character, Mr. Ryou Horikawa).BTW, I'm also a VERY HUGE voice actor nut on the anime and anime-video game side of things in both English and Japanese (I can do impressions as well), but more on that later.
I've used to first play as
during my noob days (I swear to god damn god, Miyuki Sawashiro =__=; ), but I eventually used A LOT of before starting to play online and thus start buying the DLC.I'm also very self-deprecating. lol
The point I want to talk about with this long post is the insights from many different viewpoints I've noticed on what makes For Glory very difficult to deal with for many different players, myself included.
I will say first off that I'm on the lower-end of high-level of play; I'm in no mess a good player and I know how much I get **at on.
Right now, I've had some very heavy frequent salt I needed to recover from. And while I was at my workplace, I thought long and hard about how to express myself.
This also ties into other things I've been looking into on other forums as well.
This post is for those who have been going through stuff like I have, and is there to read for those who want a more "reasonable" side to things.
This may have opinions of mine that shift from one side to another, but most of it will be from both perspectives.
Without further ado......
For Glory. AKA Gachi in Japanese (lit. an abbreviation for serious, diligent, honest or earnest to quote Tangorin).
Clearly people have been cra*-posting about this mode for a long while. Myself included. It induces heavy saltiness into the hearts and souls of Smashers both novice and pro alike like no other.
Some people say it's the sign of the devil, to speak it out in a pseudo-PhantomStrider-like voice on YouTube, while others say that it has its merits.
First off, I'm going the say the latter is mainly due to very little choice on certain people's parts. You can blame them if you want or emphasize with them, I somewhat don't care. (I think...?)
But...what is it that really makes it bad? One thing is the lack of platforms which encourages camping and those with good ground-games to dominate.
Let's list some very debated stuff from collective things I've read up on via other forums:
[1. Lag]
Lagging via bad Wi-Fi or some form of input lag.
Never go into battle with unneeded weight and limitations, but know to accept which limits you have placed on yourself out of choice.
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This is quite common and unavoidable in any form of online multiplayer setting.
Even though the Smash Bros. series in general is very easy to pick up in terms of innovating the platform/mascot-fighter genre, execution is still a must when it comes to competitive sports/gaming in general, as well as muscle memory. It's true for any fighting game and it's often one of the most criticized elements that prevent newcomers from being motivated enough to invest time into learning how to play fighting games.
Sadly, most of the time, America or at least certain people who live in closed-off area with no easy way to access a tournament tend to have to rely on their internet connection for some actual competition.
Thus, it's very easy for non-professional players who play in the comfort in their homes to experience any form of lag that messes up their move; be it through some slow-downs or not having your inputs be registered. It's indeed a relate-able frustrating experience.
But sadly, like how people on the internet act, they make a meme out of it and thus take it for granted in general. This starts up the blame game in that some people may outright blame their losses or any unintentional action on lag. Sometimes it's hard to see if lag may really be the real reason why people suffer a lot on certain online gaming communities, but in Smash 4, the Smash Icon that pops up on the corner of the screen is a clear indicator for both sides.
Personally for me, yes lag is annoying at times, but it doesn't always bother me. The thing I'm more worried about is making sure I don't fall into attacks whenever I'm trying to land back down vertically and get edge-guarded like a dumb***.
But this brings me to my next point when talking about "how people take the lag blame for granted". Moving on to....
[2. Spammers and character misuse]
People who perform the same action or use the same tactic/character over and over without any thought, as well as harm the reputation of character loyalists.
Strength is meaningless without purpose and form, for it turns it into non-motivational anger and the tarnishing of other honest spirits.
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Some insightful sides of the internet will talk about the clear-cut difference between zoning and spamming.
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Zoning involves timing your projectiles or whatever disjointed/long-ranged tool you have in accordance to your foe(s)' actions, allowing you to manipulate the way to approach you or the situation in general.
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Spamming however, doesn't even involve any part of that thought process, and usually leads to just mindlessly doing something over and over again expecting something different; it's akin to the definition of insanity.
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These are the kinds of people I see everyone complaining NON-STOP about. For me, I don't see too much of an issue with these people, but I have fought a certain
player who spammed forward aerials non-stop to wall me out. Due to my poor skill level and lack of experience, it was impossible for me to approach due to me using via him having only average mobility compared to 's better horizontal air speed.But there's many many more examples we can go on about. We've all seen people complain about
and players who don't happen to be named Izaw spamming Hero's Bow & Arrow non-stop as well as bombs just to punish any reckless actions due to the aforementioned lag, making them very hard to counter. People had a field day being livid at players due to their hard-to-punish ground game via the layout of For Glory stages/Final Destination but at the same time mock his inconsistency at being a solid character due to his poor recovery (thank you ZeRo, for providing insights on Little Mac's poor grab range); this even happens quite a bit even after his nerfs and how Masahiro Sakurai himself expressed how low his win-rate actually is.But nowadays, we often see
players spamming his advantages non-stop, as well as a ton of people fuming with a lot of hate towards (I too, have experienced her raw power firsthand lol). That much I do understand. But I also understand that some professionals and other players do state that no-one really knows how to fight her yet. And of course, people like Omni will love to make sure burns in his own fire mixed with his pee.Then of course, there are the people who always use
for disrespect montages, whether they know how to use him or not. And yes, as I've said before, I use from time to time as IntroSpecktive roasts a player like me using him on For Glory like a scrub for various reasons.I do indeed understand, all of us hate these characters and/or the players that main them; but for some players like a
player that I've seen on this place from time to time, it also leads me to realize that there are people who love playing these characters just because they do.Because of the spammers however, most passionate-character loyalists are often given such a bad name and are often left in shame due to seeing their favorite character be degraded by the cries of a salty fool like me and many others due to how a good size of the infamous playerbase misuses these characters.
There's also
and to look out for too, since they like a few of the aforementioned characters are all pretty nasty with their advantages gained on the format of For Glory.Most of the time, it's due to people outright giving subpar players like me a hard time; most of these characters have advantages that can be mindlessly spammed to give non-pro-players a very hard time.
Players such as I who don't have the skillset needed often have whined about such things, and believe me, I've fought these characters after a long while of fighting a bigger variety and I struggle a lot due to pressure, anxiety and frustration at some of their patterns mixed in with good frame data. (
frame 1 jab after whiffing a smash attack, anyone?)However, spamming also applies to rolling. The Smash Bros. series barring Melee/DX (arguably due to many Marvel vs. Capom 2-styled oversights that create a ton of confusing yet exciting tech) is quite simple to pick up, and thus very simple options are bound to be abused over others. What's more, the removal/nerfings of some of the most effective mobility options limits Smash 4 to be just like J-Stars Victory Vs.: a bait-and-punish type of fighting game.
Due to this, defensive play is often more infamously reliable than the existing offensive options due to them being too unsafe. I will outright admit that even I have a guilty habit of rolling a lot, but mainly to the point where I use it to back out of danger and/or avoid attacks.
Even then, roll-spamming to some is more of a nuisance than a real huge pain. Skilled players can often find a way to punish a roll since it's never as versatile as dash-dancing (nerfed since Brawl/X), perfect-pivoting and/or wavedashing (removed). Sadly, these are advanced techniques, so not everyone is going to be able to use these types of movement options.
Let's get into how a majority of American players play regarding this (and I mean MAJORITY, NOT EVERYONE).
American players often play solely for results and to win due to money matches (and thus since there's a prize there's more at stake and thus more vitriol).
A lot of players play top/high-tiers just for results and to ensure they win most of the time. A majority of other players sadly, follow suit. Both novice and professional. Character loyalists are a rare dime a dozen.
Japanese players on the other hand, play a lot more for quality, and strive to improve on their tactics even if what they're doing is already working, to quote TV Tropes. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/FightingGameCommunity
Sadly, sometimes we spam because that's all we know; and it could be ingrained into our systems due to another aforementioned vital element to fighting games; muscle memory.
Sometimes, "Damn You, Muscle Memory" via TV Tropes will be in play, and some bad habits die hard.
Ironically, spamming can also be towards the usage of powerful tools again, without purpose. It's a bit common for players around my level to forget about fundamentals despite their importance, cause it's seems a lot easier to pay attention to someone saying "this is all the hard/complicated stuff-and-techs that you can clearly notice that's been displayed in a big red box with large bold text".
All in all, it's either you're screwed over by the spamming or not. Your skillset really is what matters against spammers, and sadly even for those who are on a pro-level, spamming can easily throw them off if they don't expect it.
Here's to quote one comment by KristineR in PR Balrog's statement in 2014 about the American FGC http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...-will-teach-even-if-it-means-theyll-get-beat/:
"Some people in the scene have been saying hey lets do training sessions together and make the scene better for years. Some players don’t bother going to sessions because they don’t want their tech figured out. The fact that this discussion is now being taken serious only after PR Balrog got his butt handed to him is a testament that it will take years for this scene to begin to get to the level it needs to, to grow.
I have said it myself the play style of Japanese players and Americans are totally different. I didn’t need to travel to Japan and get beat up to know this. In this country it’s straight to top tier characters and gimmicks. UMVC 3 is a prime example. There is tech out here with multiple characters but people don’t take the time to find out; they go to what is easy: Vergil, Morrigan, Wesker etc. When the Rocket Raccoon player came from Japan that one year and bodied everyone you started seeing more raccoon players. We don’t innovate over here, we copy."
This ties into the spamming part in that a lot of pros often abuse the highest-level tier of characters just for results, while in Japan there are arguably more character loyalists who strive to always improve our game.
Sometimes, we spam things just to win out of a bad habit, and due to the environment around this nation it's hard to innovate on our own nowadays.
TV Trope: Complacent Gaming Syndrome
Via the Xbox Live community, AKA "That Damn Ken".
This sadly, also leads right into my next point:
[3. Toxic Players]
Jerk***es, ***holes, trolls, whatever, etc., who all test the meaning of your life's decision to even try picking up the same profession they're on.
Everyone seeks their purpose, even if it means stepping on others to achieve it which in itself can be an obstacle for you.
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Note that this also ties into the ambiguous matchmaking system of With Anyone overall. It's a long-running trend that causes anxiety for folks like me, and also it ties into the usages of certain characters and perhaps ditto matches.
This is quite the obvious one. This is inevitable in any online community where people hide behind a screen typing cra* of all sorts. Quite the wretched hive of scum and villainy; you know the drill, you must be cautious.
Tying into the spammers and those who blame lag for their mistakes, nearly EVERYONE complains about sore losers of the highest degree. Those who switch their nametags to saying that you suck and everything, you know?
(Those playing on the 3DS versions should be safe since this nametag issue is much more often mentioned on the Wii U version.)
Surprise surprise, as I've salt-ranted on about before, this applies to the winning side as well. There exist toxic winners too. However, everyone always talks about the toxic losers.
Toxic winners are basically what cause people like me to instantly be discouraged when they suddenly switch characters; or at least switch to certain ones. The most infamous examples I can think of nowadays are either
, and . On the other hand, , and tend to be the rare ones. These kinds of players also fish out for "disrespect K.O.s" for their montages, and as you would expect, give the loyalists to these characters a fairly bad name in turn.Most of the time, these characters have notably overpowering advantages just to make it very hard for you to win, or at least give them a chance at beating you.
They also have a high chance to be the aforementioned spammers, thus they will no doubt show some of their possible bloated egos should they get you to fall for an obvious-yet-rewardingly-punishing pattern of theirs, such as spamming moves/techniques with good frame data just to make sure more salt will take you over.
Even if it's obvious, players will either insult you out of defense if they lose, or they keep abusing these patterns just to make your experience online hell for you if you happen to not have the proper skillset to punish accordingly (and they WILL take advantage of your frustration).
Thus, if you do fall for an obvious pattern often to the point of losing a stock, their display of toxicity is often obvious if they choose to taunt or teabag (even in a situation where you can't fight back such as from a broken shield).
It's all the more merrier to have your online experience to be pure hell and salt.
For the people who lose and switch to these characters, it's a very obvious sign of frustration.
For the people who are curb-stomping then switch, it creates a ton of extra pressure and an extra way to denounce the existence of their opponent. Basically switching to them in general is considered to be a "global-Teemo taunt" in those situations.
I always deal with the latter a lot, since as said before I'm by no means a good player; naturally due to my New 3DS sweating like crazy from me trying to fight as hard and efficiently as I can prior to their switch, I start to lose even more focus and lose opportunities to punish these characters' weaknesses.
This also ties into their mindsets leading into a Morton's Fork; to quote TV Tropes, "Damned if you do, damned if you don't." Both or more/all of your existing options will lead to ****.
If you win against them, they'll most likely wish they had an all-chat feature just to tell you that you won only because they picked someone they weren't good with.
If you lose against them, they'll most likely deem you to be a waste of time and leave, thus leaving you to drown in your own rising sodium levels.
In terms of character switching, A LOT of people also complain about the ditto matches these types of players provide. From what I can imagine and from what I can remember via my own experiences, they're not fun to say the least.
But on the flipside, some players state that some dittos at least provide some insights on what they could do differently with their own character.
Sadly, meeting toxic people is common in this kind of community. It's basically the online side of things, and most of the time it's very hard to improve when there's the pressure of those trying to talk you down when you lose, as well as certain patterns they do that you often fall for just to make your experience a living hell.
For more skilled players though, they would no doubt have their time wasted due to how they met an ***hole while expecting to meet someone of their skill level.
This also applies to Japanese players too; you've heard about the trope "Japanese politeness"; but online communities like this don't discriminate, meaning anyone become an instant donkey-****ing diarrhea buffalo ***wipe the moment they log onto most forums, to mildly put it in AVGN-speak.
In America, it's common to compare the competitive fighting game scene to the Japanese scene; sure, Japanese people play like robots in a way, but MOST (NOT ALL) Americans are a bit more the vitriolic side of things. It makes a bit of sense in that there's more at stake since placing money as a prize in that kind of setting gets anyone going. Cause you're actually winning a prize from it all.
Sadly, this also causes some of us (including dumb ****s like me) to take **** too seriously. It's common for most American players to focus a lot more on winning and the like instead of playing to improve.
However, placing money matches in settings like this is considered to be illegal gambling in Japan, so arguably the scene there has less "hype" going around it as well as their audience being quite quiet in general (but don't get me wrong, some Japanese commentators speak out some hilarious **** lol).
https://youtu.be/0yvFNEWWVIU?t=1m9s, https://youtu.be/0yvFNEWWVIU?t=2m and https://youtu.be/0yvFNEWWVIU?t=12m17s XD
(Funny enough, both Cloud and Baiken have a technique named Garyou Tensei, the Japanese expression/term for a "Finishing Touch".)
Don't get me wrong, hype is good, but sometimes there's proper a place and time for everything; a lesson many of us need to practice and that even I am guilty of not excising properly.
Of course, with these facts pointed out. Who should we point fingers to? Should we really blame America itself for how the fighting game scene is and how most players are pretty toxic? Probably not, since the facts only can cover so much along with opinions as well. That said, it's going to take some time to know how to really fix and/or deal with these issues.
There's also another thing to bring up regarding a guy named Sloth Facts that LaserTimeContributor brings up, Sloth was fighting against a veteran player named Brett in Guilty Gear XX Accent Core.
http://www.lasertimepodcast.com/2014/11/12/the-toxicity-of-the-fighting-game-community/ (More on the link here)
Of course, Brett just thrashed him on top of playing sub-optimally for the hell of it and even threw a taunt in there for good measure. It made Sloth Facts post on his twitter later on in that he was quitting playing Guilty Gear.
Now don't get me wrong, I LOVE Guilty Gear. It was one of the main inspirations next to BlazBlue and Under Night In-Birth to come up with my own set of over 400 original characters for a fighting game-setting in a crossover to boot as well (details mainly seen on my ***tty Devianart). But fo sho, False Roman Cancels are all frame-perfect-tools that need to be performed correctly for the best optimal performance, which is why I like watching it a lot instead of truly playing it.
Of course, Sloth Facts in the comments section indeed got some flak for just saying "he quit". It's very common to get discouraged, that much I agree. But I also do understand where people are coming from when they call him out on just "giving up".
Sometimes people are there to discourage us by a ton when it comes to playing something that's fun but also happens to be competitive. Japan normally doesn't do that when it comes to helping others improve from what I've heard.
Plus, to also quote Patrick Miller, a LOT of us "punish mistakes" A LOT. Sloth Facts all because he got stomped and decided to stop playing GG, got some flak for giving up as aforementioned.
Also, Brett most likely at that time was trolling the match just so he wouldn't get placed any higher just so he could sleep in the next day before the tourneys. So it also happened to be more bad luck for Sloth Facts.
Also, that very
player and a few others made a very good point in that there needs to be ranked system. Granted, Sakurai (barring the fact that you may instead actually reference Cloud's Japanese VA, Takahiro Sakurai) may have not wanted to include a ranked system due to it creating some gaps between people and even more forms of bullying due to rankings, but at the same time it would allow less curb-stomps to happen.But in the end, Masahiro Sakurai (not Takahiro lol) may have wanted this to still just be a party-game-like setting after all, but who's to say it ended up for the better or worse?
However, this also ties into the need for a ranked system; the matchmaking of For Glory often tends to be very random and it's very hard to know if you're fighting someone equal to your skill level or not.
Thus, this all leads into someone like me; you would often expect others to be out to get you and for anxiety to take over during the match. It's not fun at all.
The opposite of this tends to be players switching characters on you just to show that they don't think much of you as an opponent, due to how easily you may be failing against him.
Taunting patterns is all that's needed to foresee a toxic player, folks. If needed, just quit while you can, even if you think you can find a way to adapt and beat their cheap-as-hell patterns, chances are you're just like me in that no matter what you do they'll always crush you with the last laugh.
Guess what? Remember the old days that Rage-quitting has been a much more serious issue in certain games? I've rage-quit a few times before, I shall outright admit. And hell, via Older Than Dirt, someone would literally grab the Go board and fling it out the window into a nearby pond, breaking apart their precious shishiodoshi in the process.
Most of us try to fight to win, and never to learn; I know I'm guilty of this since I always feel like by myself, I hit a bit of a wall and I'm not sure what I can actually learn and practice efficiently; doesn't help to be supposedly high-functioning and diagnosed with a possible learning disability like me, but that's my loss. : P
But in the end, these kinds of players also never discriminate in terms of what race they are; they can be Mexican, Spanish, French, Brazilian or whatever for all we know.
And one more small thing among this long topic; these kinds of players will NO DOUBT teabag/taunt spam. If needed, just don't play with them anymore, or just sandbag them. It's not worth it to show them your efforts unless you can truly have a chance to beat them (if you're actually experienced that is).
Naturally, in comes the next topic that ties into who we fight on For Glory.
[4. Lack of communication]
If you're not playing with friends, then doing something with someone new is very ambiguous territory you're daring to cross through.
The unseen enemy is not always the deadliest, but is worth turning into an unpredictable friend when the chance arises.
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One of For Glory's most notable flaws in my honest opinion is no doubt the lack of communication between you and your foe; for MOBA's, it's one thing to include and all-chat-disable feature just so you can focus more on yourself while others help you cover up, but in 1-on-1 fighting games it's another since everything is all on you.
When you beat someone or lose, it's very hard to tell what's going on. Most of the time due to how toxic online communities are in general, and given how humanity is a salt-containing/inducing race, we always *AHEM*
*In a dramatic echoing voice* ASSUME THE NEGATIVE~ *Points finger to himself*
(THE MORE YOU KNOW)
But alas, yes. This is also justified in that for sure, trying to share info outright with strangers isn't normally very safe. So of course just for safety's sake, we can't use our custom taunt bubbles in those settings.
But on the flipside, due to the aforementioned, I shall quote the aforementioned Patrick Miller's article on Shouryuuken.com's forums: (here's the link: http://shoryuken.com/2013/10/16/opinion-toxic-community-and-building-a-better-fgc/)
(Did I really have to use "aforementioned" twice in a row in the same sentence?)
"Frankly, I’m not surprised. Think about the first time you played Street Fighter against someone online — how much harder it is to read someone when you’re not standing next to them, how frustrating it is to get bodied and not be able to immediately request a runback, how salty you feel when you just know that the other person isn’t accepting your match request because you got beaten so badly that they think you’re just a waste of their time. The lack of that face-to-face connection makes it harder to empathize with someone else, whether you’re doing that to get in their head for a game, or whether you’re posting a comment on an article somewhere. And without that empathy, it makes it much harder to care about Phase 2) Help Each Other Improve — which sucks, because that’s the part that makes us a community, not just a group of people who happen to play the same games."
This part in my honest opinion sums it up perfectly. I clearly remember having fun when battling online face-to-face with someone or actually being around people in general playing the game during my times at anime conventions such as SacAnime; it was no doubt a very fun experience.
Playing in the comfort of your home tends to be another thing due to via quoting Patrick Miller, it's pretty much due to most of us in America being solitary gamers and arcades being very scarce nowadays; online play is normally where it's at.
Of course, some people like me would say that this issue needs to be addressed; but I will say that I have nothing against other people who say that leaving it like this should be the way it's meant to be. Either it's too hard to find a good compensation or we're just lazy.
Plus, us acting very salty and failing to control it will lead to fools like me ****-posting and ruining potential chances to make new friends; for all we could know, that one player who was giving you a hard time one way or another could be a troubled-yet-nice guy.
That one
player who also then switched to , and then was actually sweet folk; only problem was that I called them out for it due to my saltiness, and that mindset of mine at the time was a problem, I will be frankly honest.Again, this is due to lack of communication preventing us from finding out about other people enough to allow us to friend them; they could even share the same Smash tag name as another person which leads to even more confusion. And I've heard that one possible option on the Wii U version is to report them.
Sadly on the Wii U version, there's also the aforementioned nametag switching. That's bound to really cause some raising eyebrows.
But thankfully, maybe we don't have to have communication because of one thing; people in communities like this WILL whine their ***es off in order to get what they want (community movements, nerfing characters, etc.). This is why patches were made in the first place for Smash 4.
Plus, one other trait the Wii U version seems to have over the 3DS version is to add anyone as a friend. Toxicity and ambiguity seems to be more rampant on the 3DS version than the Wii U version and aside from quality issues and the usage of c-sticking techniques, people pick Wii U over 3DS often.
This also leads to other types of assumptions as well; most of the time better players will flat-out negatively assume they're fighting only nothing but dumb scrubs who are there to waste their time. I'm assuming most of these better players want to vent on someone like me so they'll bother to kill me with a read I can't foresee at all and taunt me after that to get their point across.
This leads us to assume nearly everyone on For Glory is toxic, even IF you happen to be fighting someone like shofu out of pure coincidence, chances are they'll be confused as to why you'll give up easily (if you happen to have any prior stress).
Also, look at the theory of G.I.F.T. (Greater Internet ****wad Theory), if you will. This is what most of this is in a nutshell.
Of course, this website in general is a great way to communicate, as well as other circles such as Anther's Ladder and Smash Amino.
But then I realized....I have only the 3DS version of Smash 4. I tried out Anther's Ladder but a certain step seemed to prevent me from fully logging on/signing up. What could it possibly be?
This also ties into the next and last (but not least) topic!
[5. Lack of accessibility]
Face it, some of us are just pain born as unlucky, and not everyone has access to the materials needed to "git gud".
Life has a choice to be cruel, and is never perfect for everyone.
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Sadly, some of us are either lazy or as said before, unlucky.
This is EXCLUDING THOSE WHO MAKE UP EXCUSES OF NOT WANTING TO LEARN AND WANTING TO WIN MORE. There exist people like this who may use this sort of thing as a john, so be wary of that.
Sometimes, it's hard/impossible to change a jim (to quote Omni) that wants to stay as your usual "***hole scrub". Let's try our best to pay attention to those who honestly want to take in all the help they need.
As for me, I'm not sure how to really improve. Watching replays would be good enough, but what if something different happens the next match? That's the same kind of confusion that applies to me whenever I was struggling at MOBA's in the past (I'm a bit of an avid League of Legends player).
For me, Anther's Ladder was something I tried...but for some reason, I couldn't fully sign up. Which leads me into my point of "some people might be unlucky".
In America, the nation is damn wide-spread. It takes plane flights and long-hour drives to get to locations with plenty of other people to meet. People can suffer from jet-lag before a tournament starts due to where they live (and they may or may not be the best hometown hero in their profession/Smasher career).
There's also the fact that via the PR Balrog link and in ZeRo's USA vs. Japan video, A LOT of American players often keep a lot of **** to themselves.
Anyone watch one of Chosen's videos on YouTube about how he got SWAT'ed by some "underground" trick-shot community due to him putting up a CoD trick-shot video that they demanded for him to take down or else? Yeah.
It's basically an "every man for himself" sorta of mentality, but it's not very easy to find out what's the actual blame for all of this other than poor luck (Matthew Effect, anyone?). Where you live can really determine how you're going to get your daily dosage of both competitive match-making AND actual practice; thus you're forced to deal with all of the above points as a result for the best possible Smash experience competitive-wise.
Online forums, text and videos can only help with so much compared to being able to find mentorship, even if you need to spend some money for it.
And yet tying into actually find ways to practice AND be able to apply it is a very annoying process for many new players. I myself may be just your run-of-the-mill high-functioning ***hole who can't seem to find out where to apply his weight. And as a result, gets beaten by some reads that could've easily been avoided and often gets mocked on For Glory. : P
But at the same time, one other side can say "those kinds of players are just lazy". And yes, it's true. You're always going to lose to someone who's put more practice and time into the game than you have, and it's true you need dedication if you really like the game you're playing.
And of course, indeed, some people are just much better at practicing their tech and fundamentals way more than others, especially when playing by themselves instead of with nearby friends.
But let's also talk about Japan again; train rides for a few hours are all that's needed to get to Shinjuku to Oosaka for your big tournament. Japan is a smaller and more tight-knit nation with MUCH better internet. They ALWAYS go online for friendless to help each other improve at a solid rate and they're more on top when it comes to posting about tech on the forums.
Then again, you might need to know a decent enough level of Japanese while also working on your public hygiene (and to not be a weeaboo).
There's a reason why the trading mechanic for Pokemon was formed with that in mind (along with insect fighting being popular in the East); Japan was bound to have people who would trade with each other 24/7, despite being a bit stoic towards each other in public in general.
In America, raise your hand if you DIDN'T bother to buy two versions of one generation just so you can trade back-and-forth with yourself and only focus on your favorite version and use the other one as a trading tool.
Exactly.
Sure, I could be bloating up Japan to be so great and all, but didn't I also say that being toxic doesn't discriminate and nearly anyone of any race or gender can turn into a toxic *hit**ck the moment they're online?
That, and Japan pretty plays like Mew2King copies to put it mildly. They're also not used to our vitriolic fighting scene.
Also, there are indeed people that tie into the toxic players part; some people have too much pride to admit that they need to seek help to improve. It's not just the "high-level scrub destroyers'" fault, but also the fault of the scrubs themselves who don't want to admit they need specific things to be better.
Ah, and there's a recent point thanks to Joystick Specialist's Why You Should Quit For Glory video:
[6. Very horrible matchmaking]
It's no secret in that Global Smash Power has very little effect on who you get paired with, and why you see a lot of "get rekt" Smash montages out there.
Your abilities may sometimes be too much for the other person, even if you decided against fighting them in the first place.
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This video around 2:45: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUCl6aRfjfU
It proves a very valid point. And I agree with this guy's many points on this mode.
For sure, For Glory is very inconsistent with its matchmaking, and it's pretty much a good reason why someone like me will struggle a lot, and why there's a TON of those Smashtuber montages.
Chances are, you've seen people get styled-on a lot as aforementioned. https://youtu.be/vaS0SekSy30?t=23s
Probably because the system decided to pair you with a player who has no idea how their matchup works against your character (e.g. that kind of pitiful player is me).
I do agree with Joystick's point of "it's not really Nintendo's fault for making For Glory like this, but they still should've made some improvements on the mode".
But for some of us as mentioned before in "Lack of accessibility", some of us just want a quick match, and on some reasonable ends, Anther's Ladder takes a long time to get set up.
But again, who's to really blame for all of this? How can we fix it?
Honestly, I just posted this long *** thread just so people can at least be aware, and that you're not alone when it comes to experiencing this bull****. I understand. Sometimes we need to learn to control ourselves, and often times we fail at it. We're only human and we make mistakes a lot, even if other fellow humans focus much more on bashing other people's mistakes as hard as possible just to make themselves look like hypocrites.
Granted, this kind of toxic issue is prevalent in every gaming community, but the FGC in America takes the most flak for it due to how hard people had to prove themselves and are unwilling to let go of that mentality to this day.
It's also one reason why I question "who to really blame for all of this?" I don't want to point fingers or anything cause that would make me look even more like a salty fool, and I'm already trying to recover from it.
People want to prove themselves in a setting such as a fighting game or any competitive sport, and yet there are a lot of obstacles to be expected. Scrutiny is to be expected and sometimes the way the game is designed can sometimes even hinder you.
It may take a while for some miraculous fix to come up that will satisfy the huge majority of players, but until then, I want you to look over this and know that these are common issues you may run into unless you're good enough at the game to hold out on your own, and that these kinds of toxic mentalities combined with awkward conditions for players online have been around for a long while.
There's also one more disclaimer I like to add:
Sometimes, majority may not even be the proper word to use. The correct term for some of the scenarios that involve a group of people doing such b.s. would be "vocal minority".
Sadly, most of us gloss over that. I do too, which leads us all to be thinking that nearly everyone thinks in a specific and possibly-immature way.
It's hopefully going to be alright.
Anyway, I hope you enjoyed this very long and dumb post. You can for sure disagree with me on a few things since I'm just like anybody around here. An idiot. Geniuses are hard to come by and I'm for sure not one of them to be frankly honest.
In the end: For Glory is full of toxic spammers and arrogant noob crushers. It's not a fun way to learn the game at all, and many people have gripes with it. Both sides of the story are true and it's wise to try to use special systems to seek friendlies and/or tutelage.
Also, playing as top tiers that you actually are comfortable with and know inside-and-out is no problem at all; me playing as
often is one example of "using a mediocre character to force an uphill battle upon oneself". (ty for opening my eyes, ESAM).
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