Footstool Jump

[Mr.Victory07]

I can sort of see a use for this on land.

Mario goes towards Kirby.He does a dash attack and Kirby short-hops (if its still in) to avoid it. And while coming back down, he performs a footstool jump, the fastfalls(if its still in) and im guessing you are left stunned for about 1-2 seconds, so Kirby punishes Mario with a forward smash.
I also think if the stun effect does happen, heavier characters will have longer stun times

 

[jobrown4]

i don't know if it would stun all that long... i'm sure you could cancel it (if thats in) and i'm sure everyone could use it.... well it might be like wall jumping...

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

It was silly in Melee how not everyone had the ability to send opponents downward. I hope to high heavens that every character can do the footstool jump. Meteor smashes with just the jump button? WTF?

 

[Midna]

I think Sakurai probably would have said something along the grains of:
"But only some characters can do it. Which ones, you ask? You'll just have to wait and see..."

are those not similar words?

 

[maxpower1227]

Your statement about the spine is inaccurate. To compress the spine like a spring, it has to be oriented vertically i.e. standing up. Basic anatomy.

QFT.. .

 

[Luigi Smash Master]

well i dont think the footstool jump could be that effective as a meteor smash or spike.

My reason for this is that the character getting back onto stange is most likely going to use an up B move.

so the character who wants to do a footstool jump cannot land on the character with the up B frames still going contrary to a meteor smash or spike

 

[Chromeless]

One thing that seems to be ambiguous here is whether or not the footstool jump actually does damage to your opponent, it may simply give you a positional advantage without actually increasing their %.

 

[Drumma_Boi]

This all saying that for the footstool jump in the air.....

I feel it could be a possibility of how heavy the charecter is performing the jump is how hard or fast you are spiked......

Also I hope that not every one has this because imagine team games or just singles matches jumping out to edge guard with an aireal missing and your opponent is just trying to save his jump to get back and doesnt even intend to FootStool jump you.... next thing you know you are being meteored and havinbg to waste your 2nd jump.....

It seems to me like just hitting the jump button to spike seems weird maybe using your 2nd jump to cross through their body if it is in air....


As of doing this on the ground and taking examples of pikachu standing on the box rolling, yoshi standing on wario, and the ladder climbing it seems that the stages and other items and people will be more interactive and personal soooo I this leads me to believe that you could even do something simple like jump on top of another player anytime they are running at you......

for an example that seems way to silly to me....... You are shielding because you got knocked down and just got back up.... someone going for the tech follow with a grab and now instead of rolling spot dodging or jumpnig out now you have the added option of jumping and landing on them just to then escape freely or get a combo off yourself.....

One more thing to this dreadfully long post. After yoshi jumps off of wario it looks like wario is going to possibly be propelled off the ground into the air.... WTF?! instant aireal combo from the example I was saying earlier.... or an instant combo from someone CC waiting to counter..... WTF?!?!

I love this update because it is something new to the game but there is just too much you can speculate about for now. All we can do is wait and dream until it drops. Also lets hope they dont push the release date back any.

 

[MrBird]

I like the idea of this new move, but, I'm definitely skeptical... I agree that meteor smashes aren't spikes, but, I think that they (Nintendo) don't refer to the spikes as spikes, but refer to them as meteor smashes too. Soooo.... Let's just hope they aren't over powering.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

I can picture this move giving some characters an advantage over others simply based on the nature of their up-b. Someone doing this to their opponent could easily set them up for being hit with their opponent's up-b. Characters with an up-b that hits above them and is fast enough will have a significant advantage over those that don't. Taking Melee's hitboxes as a reference point, someone like Peach or Marth, who can use their up-b to hit someone who is above them will have an advantage over someone like Captain Falcon or Ganondorf, whose up-b hitboxes are to their side instead of above, unless the opponent ends up on their side after the meteor cancel. Someone like Jigglypuff or Kirby would have to use a jump to meteor cancel it, but might still be in position to do a b-air if doing a footstool jump lags the opponent. Mewtwo and Zelda would be able to teleport to safety, but not necessarily be able to punish the attempt. And Ness is screwed (thunder eating).

Also, there are a few other aspects of this which we won't know until the game comes out, and will affect the usefulness of this technique.

1. How precise is the timing? Is it like teching, or like powershielding? If it's like teching, everyone would do it if it proves to be useful. If it's like powershielding, people who do it and can utilize it in a real match will be a lot rarer.
2. How much will it lag? Both the jumper, and the jumpee. If it lags the jumper too much, it might not be worth doing often. If it lags the jumpee too much, there is potential for dumb infinites such as fsing the opponent over and over with them being unable to do anything about it.
3. Will it do damage to the opponent? If so, is it the same amount for everyone, or relative to their weight (Bowser doing more damage than Kirby, for example)? If it doesn't damage the opponent, it'd probably be better left as an Easter egg and a surprise meteor on noobs. If it does damage relative to weight, it'd give heavy characters an advantage which combined with other factors could help balance out their slowness.
4. How much knockback and stun will it do to the opponent? Is this a set amount for everyone, or relative to weight and/or damage dealt? Something that damages and stuns similarly to Ganondorf's d-air is obviously more useful than something similar to Zelda's d-air.

 

[ZorakBane]

ok so ness and mewtwo.. how are they gonna do it?

 

[maxpower1227]

ok so ness and mewtwo.. how are they gonna do it?

The same way everyone else does it: by pressing "the jump button", not up-B.

 

[Press22]

ok so ness and mewtwo.. how are they gonna do it?

They're not even in the game yet so don't worry about that.

 

[pikachun00b7]

What if you can SH out of a footstool?

FS SHFFL Dair anyone?
The opponents lag might allow this.

 

[mista_mista]

I think everyone will be able to do it, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

[red stone]

yay, now i don't have to use mario's suicidal meteor anymore

 

[red stone]

if it could be meteor canceled, what's to keep you from getting spiked after it. like a meteor canceld stool jump straight into marth's dair

 

[Rx-]

probably a lag of some sort, like you spring upward, and cant do another move for a second or two.

 

[Repryx]

Cheapness Move Now Fox has 2 ways of Gimping but I can see usages in teams

 

[red stone]

from what i can see, the move is risky. you basically have to be right on top of someone, they will probably hit you before you had the chance to pull it off usually. hopefully real meteors will be more useful because of their range and/or length time it can still hit

 

[Pyroloserkid]

What astounds me is that a topic like this has 5 pages.
Immediate closure is my opinion.
Ahh, if only I had Moderator privelages...that would be the day.

 

[Press22]

What astounds me is that a topic like this has 5 pages.
Immediate closure is my opinion.
Ahh, if only I had Moderator privelages...that would be the day.

this shouldn't even be closed... It's all productive info/guesses about Brawl
Good luck getting Mod with after that post.

 

[petre]

What astounds me is that a topic like this has 5 pages.
Immediate closure is my opinion.
Ahh, if only I had Moderator privelages...that would be the day.

...the day...is in the year 2054. smashboards has no activity because skaurai retired from making games immeadiately after the release of brawl. then nintendo tried to make another smash on their own, but it failed horribly. by this point all competitive smash has been reduced to almost nothing, and only about 20 people still use smashboards, and just for chatting.

but anyway, on topic...

i think this is pretty cool. hopefully it has a really short window where you can pull it off, so you wont be able to just throw them out left and right. also, i wouldnt be too worried about it being a 'cheap' technique for meteoring people, you have to jump off the stage to get to the person, and if you miss your jump off of them, then you could be pretty much screwed yourself.

 

[Team Giza]

You know what i just realized? This will make Peach even more of a BEAST!
This means while edgeguarding she can toss turnip, float, do stomps, unfly to footstool. And crazy stuff like that. Heck she may be able to meteor with turnip in hand... pretty scary stuff.

 

[VilNess]

Yay another answer to crouch cancelling

I hope...

A character being used as a stool on stage will probably suffer a lot of lag behind this technique.

Which will probably lead to more shield options...

And I agree this can be dealt with somewhat by attacks

Cuz if someone is close enough to step on ur head, they're close enough to eat ur up+b. It will be an interesting technique to see develop over the years but I don't think it will be game breaking

I don´t see how it should be game breaking either, already because everyone is able to do it... unless you mean it like WaveDash which seems to be useful for pretty much every character in SSBM.

 

[jamminjohn]

There's no way this should be closed. This is a pretty intelligent thread. I'll catch up on this when I get back later.

 

[Aeramis]

I think floaty characters will have less knockback with the footstool jump and heavy characters will be able to do it better but it will take more skill to time it because of the speed at which they drop in the air for meteor smashes when someone is trying to make it back.

 

[halfzy]

What astounds me is that a topic like this has 5 pages.
Immediate closure is my opinion.
Ahh, if only I had Moderator privelages...that would be the day.

i agree
this has gone on too long

 

[linkw00t]

This game is broken, every character has an equal opportunity to do something. That's insane! Only Marth and Falco should be able to instadeath. That's balance.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

This game is broken, every character has an equal opportunity to do something. That's insane! Only Marth and Falco should be able to instadeath. That's balance.

For the love of all that's good and holy...PLEASE TELL ME YOU'RE BEING SARCASITC!!!!

 

[Defiance]

My thoughts on the footstool jump -

First off, don't say this is imba because it will give fox or peach "two or three ways" to gimp their opponents. Oh they are so H4XX!!!!. We dont' know anything about the new movesets and how the moves will work. What you can bet on is that they will balance out the "cheap" tactics that were present in melee. Old movesets should not be used as debate points for SSBB movesets.

I don't see how this is any different from a regular dair attack. It would be like short jump spiking with falco, just A LOT harder to do. You'd also be extremely vulnerable while you are attempting to do it. Which gives all characters the chance to 'spike', it just comes at a greater cost and requires more skill/timing.

Using it for defense would add a lot of spice to the game, someone is coming at you or smacking you around, and you jump to evade them - possibly land on them, and the table are turned completely. Just another way to make the fighting more dynamic.

Mechanics - I predict that heavier/slower characters will deliver a harder hit with more stun/knock-up on land, and more spike power in air. They would also receive less of a hit from lighter characters. Pikachu jumping on bowzer should have little effect, vice versa, pikachu would get crushed. This could be a really good way to balance out the slow characters and could be used heavily in defense strats. As for getting an extra jump, it's possible that you will use your second jump up when you do the jump, then again it's jsut as possible that you can potentially get an infinite #of jumps with the right number of enemies present.

~Defiance~

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Something else I've realized, which could give it a use on stage: Would it count as using your second jump if you footstool jump on someone? If so, characters that have a double jump cancel could djc downwards immediately after, using the lag that they caused to their opponent to start a combo. This would be more useful if the footstool jump deals damage to their opponent.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/howto/technique/images/technique03/technique03_070726c-l.jpg

From this picture, it's safe to say that there will be some lag to your opponent if you footstool jump on them. We can't be sure how much until the game comes out, but it'll almost definitely give time to make this lead to a djc. It could also give time for a fast faller with a bad 2nd jump to combo with this, but probably not.

 

[killbeast301]

This game is broken, every character has an equal opportunity to do something. That's insane! Only Marth and Falco should be able to instadeath. That's balance.

For the love of all that's good and holy...PLEASE TELL ME YOU'RE BEING SARCASITC!!!!

For the love of all that's good and holy...PLEASE TELL ME YOU DON'T REALLY NEED HIM TO TELL YOU THAT!
unless YOU'RE being sarcastic too?

 

[brawlpro]

Um...the footstool jump is prety neat but wouldn't big characters like bowser look a lil bit just kinda weird performing it, i dunno. Anyways characters like kirby, metaknight, and jigglypuff would surely b the masters of this jump because they have like 4 jumps in air which they can use to easily get back.

 

[Ess oh Aytch]

Even if it is a meteor and not a spike, it's still a pretty advantageous attack. The timing should take time to get down, because if it's not, **** am I going to be disappointed with this game. Forcing someone to cancel a meteor ****s up their recovery regardless; they're forced to use their second jump or recovery move, which can **** them over royally. A recovery attack that sends you upwards would be a bad thing to have in this situation, especially if you've already used up your second jump. You'd have to cancel the meteor with a recovery attack that would:

- leave you WIDE open for another attack, while you plummet downwards, and
- probably not allow you to reach the edge if you're not close

GG Sakurai

 

[sexysanta73]

This move better take some serious timing to pull off, otherwise it'll all but ****ing ruin the whole concept of recovery.

 

[Master_Yang]

I'll admit to being a -very- casual player, so if this is too noobish please correct me, but couldn't you just treat and respond to this attack the same way you would an attempted meteor or something like a shinespike?

 

[Ess oh Aytch]

I'll admit to being a -very- casual player, so if this is too noobish please correct me, but couldn't you just treat and respond to this attack the same way you would an attempted meteor or something like a shinespike?

Well, a shinespike is completely different, since it cannot be canceled. But if you can jump OFF the person's head, I would have to say that at times this would be more useful than a traditional meteor. Assuring you'd recover due to the jump, you'd land on the stage, while the person you jumped on is either dead, going to die, or was just royally ****ed over.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

it's better than most meteors in that instead of, if you miss you're falling down, but with this if you miss you just jump, and if your character has another spike attack you could do that immediately after. However it may be worse in terms of power. I doubt it does damage, and maybe it's constant knockback, and it may be really ****ty knockback at that, meaning it's that much easier to meteor cancel. It's really hard to tell how broken/cruddy this will be until we've actually got the game, and even more so until the metagame has progressed sufficiently.

 

[Doggalina]

I can't wait to do some Footstool Jump to Knee'd Meteor Cancel.