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Flavorless Mafia III: Game Over. Who Won?

Pokechu

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Ok, but look at it the other way around. If Poyzin is town, why is he putting his neck on the line, day 1, to defend a slot he has zero information about?
Because as a town player, he should be concerned if he thinks a mislynch is in the cards, right? Statistically Zest is likelier to be town!!! LOL :laugh:

I guess this boils down to a difference in how you see the action. You think a town putting their neck on the line D1 is weird, and I think a scum putting their neck on the line D1 is weird. No harm no foul! We must agree to disagree :^)
 

Z25

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Hmmm
This wasn’t even answered but yet again you cling to pokechu and proceed to even provide a game they were in when you weren’t asked.

And then immediately defending them despite no interactions between the two of you really. This is a very odd occurrence. I’d love to hear your thought process here
* note I mean at the time of you defending them they had only just answered you
 

#HBC | Kary

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Yes, very much so. If you're constantly folding every time someone challenges a point or decision you've made, it shows you lack any real conviction towards what you're doing, and that you don't believe in what you say. Confidence is an important trait in a town player in general, l'm far more willing to trust someone who holds their own opinions and doesn't budge on them easily than someone who just rides wagons and shares an opinion with the majority of players.
Shouldn't this be a given? :laugh: Is it not seen as a townie trait to you? I concur with Raxxel, if someone's not doubling down then they don't have the conviction that a town player should have.
It's not a given. Scum can be stubborn, in fact it's one of the easiest things to fake as scum. And town should work together and listen to each other to come to the right conclusions about players.

It's not a bad rule of thumb for reading someone, but it's not conclusive.
 

Pokechu

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Hmmm
This wasn’t even answered but yet again you cling to pokechu and proceed to even provide a game they were in when you weren’t asked.

And then immediately defending them despite no interactions between the two of you really. This is a very odd occurrence. I’d love to hear your thought process here
I don't understand your logic. You harp on inactives (me) but then when a player provides a game for the inactive (anyone could've provided the game for Raxxel's question), you try to tie them to the inactive and say something could be going on. If Poy had the time, I don't see the issue with him providing the game for me. It had been a while since T-Rax posed the question. I do agree Poy was eager to defend me, but I quite admire that! Since I'm on the receiving end I'm obviously biased LMAO but I make plays like that too, defending someone D1. Now that I think about it, maybe I admire it specifically BECAUSE I do it too, that would make sense..... LOL
 

#HBC | Kary

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Because as a town player, he should be concerned if he thinks a mislynch is in the cards, right? Statistically Zest is likelier to be town!!! LOL :laugh:
Okay, but I don't see how 'a mislynch is on the cards' when there was literally only me voting for Zesto.9

I guess this boils down to a difference in how you see the action. You think a town putting their neck on the line D1 is weird, and I think a scum putting their neck on the line D1 is weird. No harm no foul! We must agree to disagree :^)
My opinion is more that it is just weird full stop, not necessarily scummy.
 

UtopianPoyzin

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Utopian hard defending you right off the bat Could be quite telling.
Telling about what in particular?

Why did you go out of your way to fetch games for pokechu when they could have done that themselves?
Game*, because I knew where to find it and I figured that Pokechu may not immediately be able to get it for you, so I was trying to quench your appetite in his name.

On top of immediately defending my vote on them.
Because it was weak ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I have no reason to "defend" Pokechu, and scum!Poyzin wouldn't risk the association (WIFOM whatever I don't care). I just know that accusing people of "popping in when their name comes up" can be really frustrating for people who said that they would be busy most of thursday and friday.
 

Pokechu

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its almost 3 here and I’m still in school, so what do either of those two points you mentioned have to do with anything.
So you're a college student as well. So wouldn't you know how difficult it can be at times to balance time? We're going through the same things, yet you're knocking me for my inactivity despite not being clear of it yourself.
Funny that you show up after not being here for almost two days when a vote is placed on you.

And by your own post I’ve still been more active then you. There are all if 4 pages in this thread, 3 technically as day one didn’t really get going till page 2.

So by that logic everyone is on lower activity as the threads been moving slow.

So that doesn’t really change my perspective here. It’s very interesting how you waited until a vote showed up to post again however
Even here, you believe that everyone is on lower activity. So why is it my inactivity specifically that prompted you to jump on me, when few have dubbed themselves as very active? Can you find anything else to construct a stronger argument?

Your argument that I showed up only when a vote was placed is exactly like voting someone because on their profile activity you can see they were conversing in PM's, so they must be talking to their scummate. Both are trivial LOL
 

ranmaru

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Votecount 1.4

1. Maven: Pokechu
2. UtopianPoyzin: Giraffelasergun, Raxxel
3. Raxxel: Kary
4. Z25: Pythag
5. Giraffelasergun: UtopianPoyzin
6. Pythag: Maven
7. Pokechu: Z25
8. Kary: ZestofLife
9. ZestofLife*

Not Voting
No one.

Important Game Links
Game Links and Vote Counts

Notes:
ZestofLife is still in need of a replacement. Counting Maven's (#129) as his last valid vote, as (#130) is invalid.

*= Currently being replaced
^= V/LA

With 9 players, it takes 5 votes to lynch
The deadline for Day 1 is March 11, at 11:59 PM EST.
 
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Z25

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I don't understand your logic. You harp on inactives (me) but then when a player provides a game for the inactive (anyone could've provided the game for Raxxel's question), you try to tie them to the inactive and say something could be going on. If Poy had the time, I don't see the issue with him providing the game for me. It had been a while since T-Rax posed the question. I do agree Poy was eager to defend me, but I quite admire that! Since I'm on the receiving end I'm obviously biased LMAO but I make plays like that too, defending someone D1. Now that I think about it, maybe I admire it specifically BECAUSE I do it too, that would make sense..... LOL
By your own statements, your saying your not inactive. Which if I agree with that, how do you view the situation now?

That would be poy very much trying to appeal to you an active player that he’s barely interacted with. Doesn’t mean your both scum, but I think it could be a very telling action that he could be scum if not both of you. But I’m starting to think the former.

This is the same type of tactic he used last game, trying to appeal t specific players and look town. Which he wasn’t. So thesis behavior is worth bringing up.

Again though your being seen as active, so utopian would be rushing to defend an active townie he has no direct interaction with before then. I think you can surely see that’s a little odd, don’t you think?
 

Z25

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Telling about what in particular?



Game*, because I knew where to find it and I figured that Pokechu may not immediately be able to get it for you, so I was trying to quench your appetite in his name.



Because it was weak ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I have no reason to "defend" Pokechu, and scum!Poyzin wouldn't risk the association (WIFOM whatever I don't care). I just know that accusing people of "popping in when their name comes up" can be really frustrating for people who said that they would be busy most of thursday and friday.
Except I didn’t ask for the game. Rax did. So how do you mistake that?

And scum would have perfect reasoning actually. It would be an attempt to look town if pokechu was town. The same way you tried to go all in as town last game and build up good interactions with people to try and not be read as scum
 

UtopianPoyzin

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Except I didn’t ask for the game. Rax did. So how do you mistake that?
Because I didn't really care who asked it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The fact of the matter is that you questioned why I linked the game. Just replace "you" with "Raxxel", I don't see how that makes a difference. Hopefully Raxxel's taste-buds were quenched with the juice of knowledge
 

Z25

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So you're a college student as well. So wouldn't you know how difficult it can be at times to balance time? We're going through the same things, yet you're knocking me for my inactivity despite not being clear of it yourself.

Even here, you believe that everyone is on lower activity. So why is it my inactivity specifically that prompted you to jump on me, when few have dubbed themselves as very active? Can you find anything else to construct a stronger argument?

Your argument that I showed up only when a vote was placed is exactly like voting someone because on their profile activity you can see they were conversing in PM's, so they must be talking to their scummate. Both are trivial LOL
Tbh I take online courses and have pretty solid time management skills. There’s a lot more to it then that but that’s a pretty persona story. Obviously that’s not the same for everyone though. Regardless I know it’s hard, but your focusing to much on the second part of my vote. My reason was a gut read in feeling out the thread. Day one is always always, and I never said I was cleared of inactivity. I chose not to post because there wasn’t much to say. There was all one one page to go through before I came back to the thread.

I also never said I needed an argument or had one. I wanted to vote because someone has to go say one and I went with my gut. If reasons are what your after then you should take that up with maven considering he also really didn’t have any. I also really wouldn’t compare that way of voting to voting based off on pm activity. PM activity voting is pretty stupid tbh. Voting based on a user being active elsewhere on the site can be decent evidence but isn’t good to focus on either. Activity or no activity doesn’t mean a person can’t be scum. Im just going with my main choice right now. Obviously my reads will change as we learn more and the game progresses but that was the vote I thought best for today. Although Utopian’s actions I definitely want to consider more as well now.
 

Z25

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Because I didn't really care who asked it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The fact of the matter is that you questioned why I linked the game. Just replace "you" with "Raxxel", I don't see how that makes a difference. Hopefully Raxxel's taste-buds were quenched with the juice of knowledge
While you may have done it just to do it, it wouldn’t be the first time I’ve seen scum link stuff for the other one. Mainly because it can be seen as helping players and seemingly a little more town because of it
 

Pokechu

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Tbh I take online courses and have pretty solid time management skills. There’s a lot more to it then that but that’s a pretty persona story. Obviously that’s not the same for everyone though. Regardless I know it’s hard, but your focusing to much on the second part of my vote. My reason was a gut read in feeling out the thread. Day one is always always, and I never said I was cleared of inactivity. I chose not to post because there wasn’t much to say. There was all one one page to go through before I came back to the thread.

I also never said I needed an argument or had one. I wanted to vote because someone has to go say one and I went with my gut. If reasons are what your after then you should take that up with maven considering he also really didn’t have any. I also really wouldn’t compare that way of voting to voting based off on pm activity. PM activity voting is pretty stupid tbh. Voting based on a user being active elsewhere on the site can be decent evidence but isn’t good to focus on either. Activity or no activity doesn’t mean a person can’t be scum. Im just going with my main choice right now. Obviously my reads will change as we learn more and the game progresses but that was the vote I thought best for today. Although Utopian’s actions I definitely want to consider more as well now.
This is where we always differ LOL I never really like to vote unless it's a joke vote (like my one for Maven now) or I have a lot of conviction, so voting off a hunch will always confuse me. Pair that with me being the best vote, even though what prompted the vote was my lack of activity, and my head is spinning! This is where I struggle getting into your pair of shoes, but that's what makes our interactions different and the game fun!

Speaking of which

unvote Maven since we've actually gotten far into the phase
 

Z25

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This is where we always differ LOL I never really like to vote unless it's a joke vote (like my one for Maven now) or I have a lot of conviction, so voting off a hunch will always confuse me. Pair that with me being the best vote, even though what prompted the vote was my lack of activity, and my head is spinning! This is where I struggle getting into your pair of shoes, but that's what makes our interactions different and the game fun!

Speaking of which

unvote Maven since we've actually gotten far into the phase
I mean gut reads have been pretty handy in these games. Like that time golden randomly bomb’d someone the town wasn’t even scum reading but they were in pokemafia. Pretty fun game actually because of that.

There’s also been several games where town has lynched scum day one off of gut reads. Sometimes people can just be really right even if there’s not enough evidence to back up a thought.
 

Pythag

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idk what you mean
I thought you joined the HBC after you got turbo lynched after saying literally 1 post. I guess I'm wrong about the entrance to that crew?

I'm not sure what your objective is for portraying Zest to be a policy-lynch noob because of some godforsaken reason that only you know.

Cheers
I'm pretty sure that the purpose is that an unknown is always harder to read than a known.
being a noob to this site != being a noob to mafia.
Us not knowing this persons play makes things hard. (I'm pretty sure Kary addressed this)

Basically, I know that Raxxel is joking by saying he and Utopian are scum buddies, but town or scum raxxel could be making that post. I would not use that post as an indicator to UP's alignment if we get a Raxxel flip.

I don't like that Zest has only made one post. I'd be fine with lynching them today if they don't get more active. I want to see Maven's case on Raxxel. Also want Pokechu to post on other things like he promised. Do people have hobbies outside of mafia? That's not allowed.

I keep dwelling coming back to this post, something just feels off about it to me.

GLG thinks a Raxxel flip doesn't impact how he feels about/interprets UP's alignment.
GLG's vote is on UP, but leaving the option for raxxel to still be scum?

Does a UP flip inform raxxel's alignment at all? Or would you still consider a raxxel vote after a UP flip?

unvote
vote GLG




Yes, very much so. If you're constantly folding every time someone challenges a point or decision you've made, it shows you lack any real conviction towards what you're doing, and that you don't believe in what you say. Confidence is an important trait in a town player in general, l'm far more willing to trust someone who holds their own opinions and doesn't budge on them easily than someone who just rides wagons and shares an opinion with the majority of players.
Shouldn't this be a given? :laugh: Is it not seen as a townie trait to you? I concur with Raxxel, if someone's not doubling down then they don't have the conviction that a town player should have.
I think I disagree? I think I put conviction in a different category as stubbornness. Stubbornness reads to me as one who won't listen to reason or change their votes or ideas. Conviction is believing in your argument. Kary addressed this a little I think.

Utopian hard defending you right off the bat Could be quite telling.
quite telling of about what?


While you may have done it just to do it, it wouldn’t be the first time I’ve seen scum link stuff for the other one. Mainly because it can be seen as helping players and seemingly a little more town because of it
I'm gonna push on this a touch: UP typically just kinda answers everything to everyone? I know the strategy could definitely be used as scum, but I think I read it as NAI. UP's scumminess seemed more from the cases he was building not from answering others questions.
 

Z25

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I thought you joined the HBC after you got turbo lynched after saying literally 1 post. I guess I'm wrong about the entrance to that crew?



I'm pretty sure that the purpose is that an unknown is always harder to read than a known.
being a noob to this site != being a noob to mafia.
Us not knowing this persons play makes things hard. (I'm pretty sure Kary addressed this)




I keep dwelling coming back to this post, something just feels off about it to me.

GLG thinks a Raxxel flip doesn't impact how he feels about/interprets UP's alignment.
GLG's vote is on UP, but leaving the option for raxxel to still be scum?

Does a UP flip inform raxxel's alignment at all? Or would you still consider a raxxel vote after a UP flip?

unvote
vote GLG







I think I disagree? I think I put conviction in a different category as stubbornness. Stubbornness reads to me as one who won't listen to reason or change their votes or ideas. Conviction is believing in your argument. Kary addressed this a little I think.


quite telling of about what?




I'm gonna push on this a touch: UP typically just kinda answers everything to everyone? I know the strategy could definitely be used as scum, but I think I read it as NAI. UP's scumminess seemed more from the cases he was building not from answering others questions.
Telling of their alignment. Scum utopian was deploying similar strays last game in an attempt to seem torn. Most townies don’t stretch themselves too much day one to prove for others or themselves.Which is partially how he got lynched last game as well
 

Raxxel

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can you explain this unvote for me pretty please :)
Seems like the post itself explains the vote. Their vote on Maven was a joke vote early game. Now that the game has progressed, they don't feel like it's appropriate to have a joke vote anymore, and since they don't like to vote unless it's a joke, they simply unvoted instead of moving their vote to someone else.
people sure changed their tune on Raxxel already eh.

Unvote

UtopianPoyzin UtopianPoyzin i want you to explain and justify your vote right now.

giraffelasergun giraffelasergun same question.
However, I would like an explanation for this unvote though. It seems like you questioned why people stopped scumreading me, then you yourself moved away from voting for me. It feels contradictory.
 

#HBC | Kary

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Seems like the post itself explains the vote. Their vote on Maven was a joke vote early game. Now that the game has progressed, they don't feel like it's appropriate to have a joke vote anymore, and since they don't like to vote unless it's a joke, they simply unvoted instead of moving their vote to someone else.
I didn't ask Pokechu because I wanted you to answer.
Now you've ruined the interaction between me and him by easing the pressure and giving him a free answer.
You're basically just hurting the town saying this lol

However, I would like an explanation for this unvote though. It seems like you questioned why people stopped scumreading me, then you yourself moved away from voting for me. It feels contradictory.
I voted for someone and got zero response or support and so I changed my vote. How is that contradictory?
 

Pythag

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I didn't ask Pokechu because I wanted you to answer.
Now you've ruined the interaction between me and him by easing the pressure and giving him a free answer.
You're basically just hurting the town saying this lol



I voted for someone and got zero response or support and so I changed my vote. How is that contradictory?
If you feel this way, do you also think that z25 has a point when reading UP as scummy for providing a link to pokechu games despite not being asked?
 

#HBC | Kary

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If you feel this way, do you also think that z25 has a point when reading UP as scummy for providing a link to pokechu games despite not being asked?
I think if someone asks a question with a clear factual answer e.g. "have you played with x before" then there isn't really any harm in doing so. For example I asked yourself/Maven about the 'wallace the jailer' thing and other people chipped in.

But if you ask someone something related to their intentions or their thought process it's just dumb and kind of rude to interrupt that, at least in the early game where you can't have much confidence in your reads on someone. If this was Day 4 and I was asking someone something they already explained earlier it might be a different story.

Do I think that z25 has a point for calling UP scummy for giving a link?

I don't think that interrupting in either of the ways I just mentioned tends to be scummy, I think it's pretty null. I just think the second one is bad for town and as you can probably tell from the length of this post it kind of annoys me.

I do think that you could accuse UP of trying too hard to be helpful to town by providing that link. But I think for that accusation to have any merit it would have to be part of a wider pattern of behaviour rather than one single post.
 

Pokechu

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Oh man Pokechu Pokechu thats a callout :mad:
That's what I'm saying!! My feelings HURTED!! They don't hurt no more but they did!!! Ouch!!! NOT necessary !!!! LOL cmon Z we should be in this together as college kids!! we ALL struggle with time, ALL the time! dont try 2 deny it !!! :smirk:

can you explain this unvote for me pretty please :)
I will apologize for not getting to this before T-Rax answered it. I've been indulging in my vices and when I first read it I thought my answer would be obvious. So I paper-clipped it and continued to be lazy. But I'll put a better foot forward from now on and get to questions quicker since I can see why others answering them would be bad.

Feeling a bit tired from doing nothing all day (wow!) but will try to put some of my $0.02 out
 

Z25

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Z25 Z25 since you have a gut read / scum lean on Pokechu, I want to know which one of Pokechu's posts you think is the worst/scummiest.
48 and 50 are gold examples of their behavior imo.

They came into the thread really over the topish for lack of a better word. Making sure that all their past relationships from games get out front and center almost as if they are trying to appeal based on that and look better. Then suggesting a random wagon like that just for fun isn’t really what should be suggested by town joke or not; especially when it seemed they actually approve of that mindset. Their interactions are all a little strange but that’s because of the last with players here and their overall personality I would say. Still as a play it’s not a strong one. It’s got me really thinking over that slot constantly
 

Z25

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And something we need to consider with the lynch today is that if we don’t get a replacement for zesto that slot might also get mod killed by the end of the phase.
Is that the case ranmaru ranmaru ?
 

ranmaru

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I have a replacement ready, there is just account problems with the site right now.
 
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ranmaru

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Bessie replaces in for ZestofLife! Welcome to Flavorless Mafia III.
 
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bessie

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Here’s some things that I found notable in my initial read.

I think of the players in the game, I've never played with ZestofLife(also hello ZestofLife, nice to meet you!) so I don't think I have a good read on them. There are a lot of people in this game I'm inclined to town read just off of general vibes. But in general I think I have the hardest time reading Up and Pythag. I feel like I have an easy time reading you, and will probably decide what your alignment is before End of Day 1 and stick with it for the rest of the game.
This feels to me like setting up an early excuse for bad reads.

Raxxel is a little suspicious for defending UP so hard, maybe I should switch my vote.
How is this defending UP? Raxxel is literally claiming they are scum together. And why didn’t you switch your vote?

Plenty of past games I was lynched day one for mostly bad reasons and my behavior was always the same and my alignment.
Can you clarify? Are you referring to games where you were town or mafia? I have not played with you before, but I don’t see how you can believe this is true. For most players, behavior will likely not be the same as town or as mafia, even though the differences may be subtle. If everyone always played consistently regardless of alignment, we would have no use for the day phases, other than to report night results and vote.

How do I interpret jokes? idk, into sign language. It totally depends on the where and when I think. Early D1? I don't really care.
as flips and things play out? I'll probably look at them all a little more seriously. I don't exactly have this all codified, I discern it as it comes.

Personally I think it's kinda weird to jump on what seemed tome to be joke so early, but that's my play.
I view early game as a pig in a poke.
So at what point in the game do you start taking content seriously?

My vote on Kary is because I had real trouble believing she thought I was legitimately claiming a role in my confirmation post. Her follow up explained it enough that the vote isn’t warranted. Unvote
You actually considered that perhaps Kary believed you were claiming mafia roleblocker in your opening post? And just to be clear, your vote for Kary was serious and not RVS?

Alright Kary I'm relying on you to crack this game open to the core. Got any of them hot reads off the bat, or...
Why don’t you formulate your own reads?

Please, the Law of Averages states that I can't be anti-town 7 rolls in a row. That's why I have already self voted and repeated the post that Kary hated the most last game, to prove how scummy I am.
So from this I assume you have been scum in your six immediately preceding games? I think that from your content on this page and by linking to the Law of Averages, you are trying to distract everyone by drawing attention to the unlikelihood of being scum seven times in a row (see Gambler’s Fallacy).

Unvote; Vote: Giraffelasergun

Okay now let's actually play.
Ok, if we’re actually playing, please explain this actual vote.

Do you always suggest to lynch the new guy if there is one? I'm curious since while the mindset itself is town imo (we don't want a weak, inexperienced slot in lylo), it DOES of course make the game and community a bit less accessible to newcomers.
What makes you think ZestOfLife is an inexperienced player? There was no information about past experience, except that this player might have played on MafiaScum, see post #18. This seems to me as you trying to look good by defending the new player, but at the same time leaving yourself an excuse to join a wagon, should one form.

I don’t like any of Raxxels posts, I’ll vote later when I’m home and can go into details.
Please do. You have very little other content.

I feel like this game becomes a lot simpler to solve when I don't have this slot that's a total unknown floating around. And I'm having a kind of nostalgia for when we lynched first and asked questions later. Even if Zesto has some experience playing mafia that doesn't mean they're actually going to be useful to town or be able to show their towniness.
So do you always rely heavily on meta in your reads?

Basically, I know that Raxxel is joking by saying he and Utopian are scum buddies
How do you know this?


There are all if 4 pages in this thread, 3 technically as day one didn’t really get going till page 2.
I don’t agree. I don't like to discard any content because I often find that there was something useful on the first page of a game, if I was smart enough to see it as such.

That shows that despite being away for some time, I still kept my eye on the thread and brainstormed what I would say.
So why were you lurking instead of posting?

I guess this boils down to a difference in how you see the action. You think a town putting their neck on the line D1 is weird, and I think a scum putting their neck on the line D1 is weird. No harm no foul! We must agree to disagree :^)
I don’t see this as anyone putting their neck on the line. Perhaps they’re just trying to generate some content among the plethora of active lurking that is going on in this game.


Post #174, I feel that this argument by Z25 defending his vote is weak.


I'm pretty sure that the purpose is that an unknown is always harder to read than a known.
being a noob to this site != being a noob to mafia.
Us not knowing this persons play makes things hard. (I'm pretty sure Kary addressed this)
This is not necessarily true. An experienced player is usually harder to read than a new player. An unknown player is unknown, and may turn out to be quite easy to read, if they are new. So are you a gut player, or do you rely heavily on meta for your reads? I am not clear from your posts, in post #37 you say “I’m really much more of a gut player” but in post #44 you say “I think I base my gut off of the meta” and then go on to say that your gut was on Raxxel in your previous game based but you cleared him on meta.
 

ranmaru

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Enjoy this video to take the space of this bump to next page.
 
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