First Person SSBB

[TurnOneWrath]

Left would take you left and right would take you right. You would always appear to be moving the same way (forward) but the mini map would show your actual movement.

So while warding off two other fighters, I have to also use a map to locate the guy at 150% that I want to get a quick KO off of?

That's a bit much.

 

[ryuu seika]

the guy at 150% that I want to get a quick KO off of

What is this, time mode?

If you don't have a vague idea of where players are then yes, it will be difficult at times but for two player this is hardly an issue and the minimap wouldn't take that long to adjust to.

If, however, you like playing four player and are fighting for points instead of survival, this won't work out particularly well for you as you keep having to change your target to the player near death and never have a clue where any one player is.

Why you'd play time mode I have no idea but each to his or her own I guess.

 

[Vinylic.]

I know. Not trying to be rude but, don't you think this is a little.....???

 

[Signia]

Ughhh... This idea makes my head hurt as well.

The game would unplayable.

You say the gameplay would not change, just the camera would be infront of your face.

So that means the controls are still the same. Well, that means that left always moves you the same direction or turns you around and right does the same thing. How would you be able to control your character? Your instinct would be to push forward on the joystick to go forward and left and right to turn. But that wouldn't work, because Smash has 2D gameplay with 2d controls.

This is a good game. Good games are designed to control and play with their limitations. Just because Smash has 3D graphics does not mean it can be played as a 3D game.

This idea and everyone's responses made my head hurt, except for this one. Extra (minus) points for first post apologizing for the (not) long post.

It's hilarious that everyone was getting caught up with the whole spinning thing when there are huge, HUGE problems with this idea. Extra hilarious that the OP is taking his idea so seriously.

So yes, the same 2D controls would NOT work, in anyone's imagination. You guys are not really thinking about what it would be like to play this. There's a reason why there are no good true-3D fighting games. (No, God of War and other popular 3D action games are not good true-3D fighting games, at least, they don't have the complexity of 2D fighters.) No one has designed an intuitive way to have many, like, more than three, attacks at your disposal ready to use in real-time. Especially first person... you need both sticks to control where you look and where you move, otherwise the control is stiff.

Even if you had some magic controller that would allow for such things (No, not even motion sensing controllers would allow it. They're actually furthest from making something like this possible.) you're suggesting we look PARALLEL to the existing 2D plane, so it would feel awful going back and forth, and up, but not side to side. What would it look like to almost instantly turn around like they do in Brawl? How would you do it? Oh right, that's somehow all figured out. What about jumping up through platforms? They'd look like ceilings! How about fighting? How the **** would you judge your spacing? Keep in mind every time you want to go backwards you have to look the other direction.

Now I'm gonna ask you guys excited about something like this the same question I ask all brawl players.

You'd seriously play that? I mean sure you'd be playing your favorite nintendo characters, but where are you gonna draw the line? You seriously think that's good game design?

I mean it sounds cool and all, fighting with a first person perspective... owait that sounds ********, because it's still 2D, you just changed the "camera" angle.

Imagine harder next time.

 

[ryuu seika]

I'd play it.

As stated before, I see nothing wrong with it for one player mode. It's just the idea of playing hectic Melee style multiplayer with it that puts me off. It's not even a case of I wouldn't play this in multiplayer, I simply couldn't.

If it were optional, I would be all for it. As is, I'm uncertain.

 

[Wenbobular]

It'd be funny if when you did Metaknight's tornado he closes his eyes so you're actually blind and have to guess where your opponent is to hit him

 

[Signia]

I'd play it.

As stated before, I see nothing wrong with it for one player mode. It's just the idea of playing hectic Melee style multiplayer with it that puts me off. It's not even a case of I wouldn't play this in multiplayer, I simply couldn't.

If it were optional, I would be all for it. As is, I'm uncertain.

Really? You can't think of any problems at all arising from changing the perspective to first-person? Nothing comes to mind? Are your standards that low? Do you not realize you wouldn't be able to see or do anything?

This is just... astonishing.

 

[ryuu seika]

Really? You can't think of any problems at all arising from changing the perspective to first-person? Nothing comes to mind? Are your standards that low? Do you not realize you wouldn't be able to see or do anything?
This is just... astonishing.

As said, the spinning issue is easily fixed, the minimap is fine for tracking your opponent and the controls would be unchanged. Where is the issue?

 

[Signia]

As said, the spinning issue is easily fixed, the minimap is fine for tracking your opponent and the controls would be unchanged. Where is the issue?

HAHAHAHAH

read my post on page 3 again

 

[Tcll]

Really? You can't think of any problems at all arising from changing the perspective to first-person? Nothing comes to mind? Are your standards that low? Do you not realize you wouldn't be able to see or do anything?

This is just... astonishing.

I've played Melee in "1st person", and I have to say...
I don't think there really nothing wrong than what you'd expect for 1st person...

brawl wouldn't be no differant :/

actually, I find "1st p" melee quite fun
I hope to try it with brawl

 

[Wenbobular]

I've played Melee in "1st person", and I have to say...
I don't think there really nothing wrong than what you'd expect for 1st person...

brawl wouldn't be no differant :/

actually, I find "1st p" melee quite fun
I hope to try it with brawl

..........
Vids???

 

[Tcll]

..........
Vids???

use the debug menu...
yes it's alot of work, (I wish there was a better way)

you have to pause and turn the cam around when you turn around...
but at least it moves with you...

I can still make a vid if you like :/

 

[John12346]

Metaknight would be bottom tier with this system.

He doesn't face his opponent; more of a 60 degree angle towards the screen.

 

[Tcll]

Metaknight would be bottom tier with this system.

He doesn't face his opponent; more of a 60 degree angle towards the screen.

^why you don't point the cam the way the char is facing

 

[Wenbobular]

use the debug menu...
yes it's alot of work, (I wish there was a better way)

you have to pause and turn the cam around when you turn around...
but at least it moves with you...

I can still make a vid if you like :/

I would like a vid hahaha this sounds pretty comical

 

[Tcll]

And also i like ****.

I would like a vid hahaha this sounds pretty comical

umm.. KK...
I'm at a tourney right now, and I just got called...
I'll make it after I finish my battle

EDIT:
well, I'm going home now, and I wasn't able to make the vid...
I'll get to it when I get home
as long as there's not an error :/

I use TipCam which disables Open GL...
so I'll have to use the Dolphin logger (never used before)
^shouldn't be too hard :/

 

[OkamiBW]

I'm sure several of these could be easily solved. But could all of them be solved? Fufufu...

-Couldn't you just hide above a platform from someone's Line of Sight?
-What if you are using a controller that doesn't allow you to push in your stick to go forward?
-So, because you need the ability to look up and down, doesn't that mean you need to have even more buttons and sticks on your controller?
-In addition, how do you look fast enough? I know Brawl's slow, but do you have to make it slower by adding in looking around?
-If the camera is in fact behind the character, could you hypothetically hide by just crouching in front of someone?
-How fun is it to look at the blast line and then disappear?
-Why would you want to look at a radar to find a character rather than just look on the screen like we currently do?
-Splitting screens would distort the dimensions awkwardly or cloud out parts of the screen. Would you need several system links to run a tournament or deal with laggy Wifi?
-You reference Zelda and Mario games...don't they only have like 5 actions/attacks you can do without pausing and changing weapons?
-Aiming would be harder than beating Mushihime-sama.
-This isn't just a clever ruse to be able to sneak in charged Forward Smashes on people, is it?
-If you grab the edge, would you be looking at the edge like several of the characters do, or would you magically be able to see above the latitude?
-Once again, which direction do you push to do a back air?
-Pikachu's Quick Attack would be vomit-inducing.
-Yoshi's Down B would be vomit-inducing.
-Kirby's Up throw would be vomit-inducing for you and your opponent.
-When you get hit at high percent, vomit is once again a possibility.

Hey TokyoGamer. I understand that not everyone likes it, and that makes sense. I'm just interested in constructive criticism and ideas that people are able to provide.

Well, first of all, didn't he post...to use your words...an idea that he was able to provide (it is like the DBZ game). Second of all, constructive criticism doesn't really refer here. Constructive criticism has to do with showing that the intent or purpose of an idea is better served by something else, a.k.a. an alternative approach. It really just sounds like you're dodging it being a problematic idea. So, alternative approaches might consist of playing a different genre with Nintendo texture hacks. Or perhaps, play Smash in the more optimal way of having its standard view. I mean, I guess you could mix genres, but there are just so many problems with it, such as stated above.

The post below is rather long, I know, but please look at it; it might interest you.

P.S. Your post was not long. In fact, I didn't even have to scroll to read it. Maybe you have your font size turned way up? Your post that was 4th from the bottom on page 1 of this thread was longer, but there's no silly disclaimer...

Hope my input helps!

 

[Tcll]

well, I've officially done the impossible...

yes I'm at home now...
but I had a friend come over right after I got home and blah

anyways...
I seem to have caught a cold that didn't hit until just a few hours ago...
and it hit hard DX

I'll make the vid tomorrow...
this medicine is kickin the life outta me... -.-

EDIT:
ok, it's tomorrow...

can anyone suggest a good screen recorder??
otherwise I'll have to log the rendered frames and find some way of putting them together...

I can enable GL on TipCam, but you'll just get a black screen with audio...

@Okami:
I'll be sure to include alot of your Q's in there as well... (melee side though)

 

[Tcll]

alright...
this was just a random moment...
I'll record the real one next

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW31pJD3pg0
^lol... F-Smashing Pika's crotch XDD

this happened after waking my cpu,
and I'm surprised it actually worked :D

usually I have to close the emu because it froze

 

[OkamiBW]

@Okami:
I'll be sure to include alot of your Q's in there as well... (melee side though)

That's fine. I prefer Melee to Brawl (due to the faster speed, ability to escape chaingrabs, combos (a.k.a. more hit stun), and options opened up by the directional air dodge system). My main question though is control and camera. The video you posted seems very stiff in terms of movement and attacking. You also have a very limited view. You pretty much can't see if anyone's above you on a platform. And if Falco's waiting there just to drop through and down air you, that'd happen pretty fast. Perhaps I'm taking a too competitive view of this, though. Brawl players did, indeed, come up with this, so maybe it's a more casual-game idea?

 

[Wenbobular]

I can't imagine reacting to anything like that haha

Thanks Tcll, I didn't think it was possible O_O

 

[Tcll]

heh...

my next vid will show you how to set it up...
I use dolphin 3089 with 3460's controller plugin
and I use a GCN controller

P2 uses a PS2 controller

EDIT:
@Okami:

1st pov is supposed to be like that though... (to keep you guessing)

cam directionals L/R are reversed though... :/
if only it was a bit faster though (like Time Splitters)

and some chars can see over the ledge...

I'd reccomend 3rd person (MK style) for this game :D

 

[Tcll]

alright, here's the new vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFK9h4VRPnk
^this is also kinda more of a tut as well as a show

you'll see there are a few probs with the method,
but it's the best to offer for first person... <:D

I fail a few times... lol

 

[ryuu seika]

I'm sure several of these could be easily solved. But could all of them be solved? Fufufu...

Most of them have already been solved

-Couldn't you just hide above a platform from someone's Line of Sight?

Yes. This is why you need a minimap.

-What if you are using a controller that doesn't allow you to push in your stick to go forward?

The controls would remain unchange so I'm not sure I even understand the question.

-So, because you need the ability to look up and down, doesn't that mean you need to have even more buttons and sticks on your controller?

I never saw this as a nessecity but if you do then you'll just have to learn to Fsmash with the control stick because the C stick is meant for camera stuff.

-In addition, how do you look fast enough? I know Brawl's slow, but do you have to make it slower by adding in looking around?

Facing forward at all times and using the minimap would help mitigate this. It's a problem that will become almost unnoticeable once you get used to FP anyway

-If the camera is in fact behind the character, could you hypothetically hide by just crouching in front of someone?

Yes. Stupid isn't it?
Solution: don't use second person view.

-How fun is it to look at the blast line and then disappear?

I'm not understanding the question.

-Why would you want to look at a radar to find a character rather than just look on the screen like we currently do?

*shrugs*

-Splitting screens would distort the dimensions awkwardly or cloud out parts of the screen. Would you need several system links to run a tournament or deal with laggy Wifi?

This is why it's bad for multiplyer. For four play, the dimensions would be unchanged but then you're limited to playing teams.

-You reference Zelda and Mario games...don't they only have like 5 actions/attacks you can do without pausing and changing weapons?

I don't recall anyone referencing them. If anyone did, they clearly weren't thinking it would work idenically.

-Aiming would be harder than beating Mushihime-sama.

Not sure what you're saying but anyone used to FP games should have no problem.

-This isn't just a clever ruse to be able to sneak in charged Forward Smashes on people, is it?

Not unless you want it to be.

-If you grab the edge, would you be looking at the edge like several of the characters do, or would you magically be able to see above the latitude?

I would say that your character would tilt their head upwards enough to see a bit.

-Once again, which direction do you push to do a back air?

Whichever direction you aren't holding to move. Simple.

-Pikachu's Quick Attack would be vomit-inducing.

LOL

-Yoshi's Down B would be vomit-inducing.

I think I could handle a minor ground pound. Buring ha!

-Kirby's Up throw would be vomit-inducing for you and your opponent.

Atleast it's a symetrical effect.

-When you get hit at high percent, vomit is once again a possibility.

Yeah, I guess it would be.

Vomit seems to be the main issue with this game concept...

 

[OkamiBW]

I don't recall anyone referencing them. If anyone did, they clearly weren't thinking it would work idenically.

Just by the way:

Another thing that could be done (which my friend suggested) is just to have the camera BEHIND the character, and face whatever direction they face, but not necessarily be at their eyes. My friend says that this is the case in many recent Zelda games, as well as Mario Galaxy.

...

This exact thing is already done in racing games like Mario Cart <~incorrect spelling.

Point is that the controls would be awkward. You have to push left or right to go forward or something along those lines.

Mushihime-sama has one of the hardest bosses in video game history. Look up a video on YouTube for reference if need be.

My point is that to be aiming and moving optimally, you need to have both thumbs on the sticks. FPS doesn't have too much of a problem with this because you shoot with the triggers and only have to deal with things like jumping and reloading only once in awhile. But in Melee (*sigh*...or Brawl) you have to press the buttons much much more frequently. See what I'm getting at? The beauty of the C-stick is that you only need to tap it for a second, rather than keep your finger on it. For example, you jump in the air while moving forward, hit the opposite direction on the C-stick to do your back air, and then let go of it so you can do whatever else you need to do (like jump afterwards or jab or whatever). Or you hit the C-stick for a sec to do a smash attack or whatever it is. You just don't have to hold the C-stick constantly for aiming.

That's why FPS works. You don't need to be pressing buttons all over the place while aiming.

 

[Wenbobular]

Just have everyone convert to claw
Duh
Or have everyone get an arcade mech style controller with like 2 joysticks and buttons all over them
That would be so awesome
...Or something

 

[GanonkingAbyss]

u dont have to put it in third person during mk's tornado since he doesn't actually spin in the tornado

 

[ryuu seika]

Or have everyone get an arcade mech style controller with like 2 joysticks and buttons all over them
That would be so awesome
...Or something

I was just thinking, why don't we ditch the idea of first person Smash for the home console and use it to make an arcade version truly unique? That way we lose the split screen problem without having lag and we have a specifically designed controller inbuilt.
It also means that the new set up doesn't have any impact on the main game, while still providing a great experiance for those who want it.

This is definitely the way to do things IMO.

 

[Tcll]

@ryuu:

that's what I originally thought this was for...
but IDK...
I just look'd and rep'd