First attempt at a team

[highandmightyjoe]

Okay my team has gone threw a lot of changes lately, this is my latest build.

Crobat/Leftovers
Timid
126 HP 132 Att 252 Spe
Hypnosis
Taunt
U-turn
Aerial Ace

Stops opponents leads from setting up and scouts with U-turn.


Vaporeon/Leftovers
Bold
190 HP 252 Def 68 Spe
Surf
Hidden Power Electric
Wish
Protect

HP is for switching in on water and hitting back hard. Surf is of course the neccessary stab, and wish with protect for stalling and healing. This set originally had Toxic instead of HP so the stalling was more effective, I'm still debating which set I'm going to stick with.


Jolteon/Leftovers
Timid
6 HP 252 Spa 252 Spe
Thunderbolt
Hidden Power Grass
Wish
Fake Tears

A second wish seems pretty wasteful, and maybe it is, but it's been working for me. Fake tears causes a lot of switches, and HP grass is for coverage. The wish could probably be replaced though, I admit, but I sometimes get a wish off Fake Tears switches and get a free heal.


Heatran/Leftovers
Timid
6 HP 252 Spa 252 Spe
Fire Blast
Earth Power
Explosion
Stealth Rock

Pretty straight forward. Does good damage and sets up rocks.


Machamp/Leftovers
Adamant
No Guard
252 HP 128 Att 130 Spe
Dynamic Punch
Ice Punch
Payback
Bulk Up

I've pretty much already decided I don't like this set-up. Replacement suggestions are welcome.


Flygon/Life Orb
Jolly
32 HP 10 Def 252 Att 216 Spe
Earthquake
Dragon Claw
Stone Edge
U-Turn

Salamence would be better for damage, and I may consider replacing him, but I enjoy having U-turn available. Otherwise a pretty straightforward damage dealing set-up.


Pretty much completely redid my team, only Crobat stayed the same. So far it seems to work pretty well, except that I seem to get walled by Salamence, not much here can deal with it well. The main reason Machamp is there is because I felt that I needed an answer to Blissey and it does that fairly well. I have considered taking him out for a Mamoswine to give me better coverage with ice shard, probably a set that also includes Toxic. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[WouW]

This is my first attempt at a team in Platinum and I'm looking for some advice. Right now I am looking at the following.

Crobat/Wide Lens
Timid Nature
124 HP 132 SpA 252 Spe
Hypnosis
Taunt
U-Turn
Air Slash

'Kay.

Gallade/Leftovers
Adamant Nature
252HP 252Att 6SpD
Will-O-Wisp
Bulk Up
Drain Punch
Psycho Cut

Replace Will-o-Wisp with Fire Punch so that you can deal with pokémon such as Scizor.

Scizor/Leftovers
Adamant Nature
Technician
32 HP 252 Att 224 Spe
Swords Dance
Bullet Punch
x-Scissor
Baton Pass

You may want to replace Baton Pass with Superpower to deal with Heatran or Magnezone and you don't really have much to pass Attack to.

Jolteon/Leftovers
Timid Nature
252 HP 24 SpD 232 Spe
Thunderbolt
Agility
Baton Pass
Substitute

The primary problem I see with Agility passing is that I don't see a lot to pass to. Off all your pokés, only Gallade would really benefit from a Speed boost, and even then not even that much.
Consider using a lot more Special Attack so that you can sweep with it.

Blissey/Leftovers
Calm Nature
Natural Cure
252 Def 120 SpA SP 132 SpD
Wish
Toxic
IceBeam
Light Screen

Replace Light Screen with Protect to imitate a Softboiled heal, or just forget Wish and give it Softboiled and Thunderbolt.

Hippowdon/Leftovers
Impish Nature
252 HP 168 Def 88SpD
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Slack Off
Stealth Rock

Standard set. Okay.

Any criticism is welcome. Right now I'm already considering changing the Jolteon. He's mainly there for passing subs, but I also gave him agility because so much of my team is slow and needs the boosts. I'm considering replacing with Thunderwave, or putting more EV's into its Special Attack and giving it another attack.

I feel that your team doesn't really mesh with itself, and you're a bit short of sweepers, especially Special ones. A poké like Hippowdon could even wall your entire team.

 

[KrazyGlue]

I'm assuming this is going to be a competitive team, because if this is just an ingame team, then you'll be fine.

Crobat: You don't need a wide lens. Air slash will almost always hit anyway, and hypnosis will still have an unreliable 71 accuracy. You would be better off using focus sash or life orb. Unless you have some specific reason for them, the HP EVs are a waste. Fill special attack, and then put the 4 leftovers in HP. The moveset looks good.

Gallade: I assume you're trying out a bulkier gallade, because that is what your EVs, item, and moveset suggest. In that case, I guess your set looks ok. But if you're looking for a sweeper, you need some speed EVs and you should take WouW's suggestion.

Scizor: Mostly it looks ok, but consider WouW's suggestion.

Jolteon: It seems like you're going for a slightly bulkier jolteon that can BP speed to hippowdon. I wouldn't really use this set. Jolteon has sweeper-like stats and is not meant to take hits. Convert this over to a special sweeper set and use life orb as your item.

Blissey: WouW is right. I'm a bit worried about your ability to take physical hits, but that's just my opinion.

Hippowdon: Fine.

Overall: Your hippowdon saves a lot of your team. Without him, you'd have no wat to deal with many common steel types. There's not a whole lot of synergy either. I feel like you're using some of your pokemon the wrong way, such as bulky versions of jolteon and gallade. Just focus on the things they're good at.

 

[Cease Tick]

Zapdos could serve as a replacement to Jolteon if you really want to pass speed, it's a lot bulkier.

 

[Circa]

Zapdos could serve as a replacement to Jolteon if you really want to pass speed, it's a lot bulkier.

Agreed. Also, although it's probably not what you're looking for and is DEFINITELY overused, you could try out a mix of the two passer Ninjasks, which would look something like this:

Ninjask@Leftovers
Jolly/Speed Boost
252 HP/4 DEF/252 SPE (or whatever you like, really...)
-Substitute
-Protect
-Swords Dance
-Baton Pass

It doesn't offer the type coverage and has no offensive capabilities, but its ability guarantees speed passing, and you can prot/sub six times if you really wanted to; and the only thing that could stop you is a taunt, which isn't normally seen in the later stages of battle anyway. Also, if you're given the opportunity (which would be very rare...so you can consider something else for this) you can give it the ATK boost, which if it's switching to your Angry Hungry Hippo there, then you'll basically end up having an unstoppable piece of lug. It's not invincible or anything, but it looks like it'd work well for what you were aiming for with the Jolteon. Just try it out and see, I guess?

EDIT: Don't expect to pass the sub very often, though. Just thought you'd want to know ahead of time in case that was something you were expecting to pass with the Jolteon.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

The baton passes are really just there because I like my Gallade and have fun with it in game, but I pretty much figured it wouldn't work well in competition. I'll replace the pass on Scizor with another attack and give him a life orb to sweep with. On Jolteon, I'll replace the agility with HP grass, and give Blissey protect in place of light screen, since the screen was really only there to keep subs alive anyway.

Also with the Jolteon, how much do I actually need the sub really? Could I just ditch the whole thing and make it a special sweeper, since I really don't have one yet. I am still concerned about the speed on my Gallade too, maybe a thunderwave could help?

EDIT: I am considering replacing the Gallade with a Calm Mind Gardevoir.

Gardevoir/Leftovers
Timid Nature
Calm Mind
Will-O-Wisp
Psychic
Shadow Ball

 

[KrazyGlue]

Ninjask@Leftovers
Jolly/Speed Boost
252 HP/4 DEF/252 SPE (or whatever you like, really...)
-Substitute
-Protect
-Swords Dance
-Baton Pass

You want focus sash here, ninjask is pretty frail and will need constant subs to survive. FS gives you a free BP'd swords dance plus one speed boost. Its only chance of survival with leftovers is hoping it ends up facing a setup lead who uses stealth rocks first.

And you should add the gardevoir; you need a special attacker.

 

[Circa]

You want focus sash here, ninjask is pretty frail and will need constant subs to survive. FS gives you a free BP'd swords dance plus one speed boost. Its only chance of survival with leftovers is hoping it ends up facing a setup lead who uses stealth rocks first.

And you should add the gardevoir; you need a special attacker.

Nein. That is a decent idea for Ninjask, yes, but only when a lead (and even that's risky...I'll explain why at the end). The set I gave him, however, is for late-game after things like SR have been more than likely set up. And honestly, I mean...he'd be running a BP to either a giant hippo or to a fighting thing with blades for the back part of its arms. The only real thing they're really lacking is speed. But he's not even running BP on the team now, according to what he's said, so it doesn't really matter.

For future reference, the reason why focus sash is risky (and possibly not even a viable option most of the time) on Ninjask is for one of two reasons; first for leading and second for later game. First: Hippowdon and TTar are rather common leads from what I've noticed, so no matter what your focus sash is going to be ruined after the first turn if they're out. Plus if you SD on the first turn (although I'd hope you wouldn't in that situation), then Angry Hungry Hippo or Mr. Boah have a chance to run you through and you'll lose your entire setup. Leftovers is just for you to keep on healing so you can use more subs, which is a much safer option, imo. Two: When not leading, stealth rocks is almost guaranteed to be there unless you carry a spinner, so just upon switching in you'll end up losing the usefulness of the focus sash. Nothing else to really be said about that.

Also with the Jolteon, how much do I actually need the sub really? Could I just ditch the whole thing and make it a special sweeper, since I really don't have one yet. I am still concerned about the speed on my Gallade too, maybe a thunderwave could help?

EDIT: I am considering replacing the Gallade with a Calm Mind Gardevoir.

Gardevoir/Leftovers
Timid Nature
Calm Mind
Will-O-Wisp
Psychic
Shadow Ball

Jolteon is sort of...flimsy, and chances are that you'll be bringing it in for quick dispatch of a threat on your opponent's team, so I'd recommend getting rid of the sub and adding another move to make it a full special sweeper. I'm not sure what I would give it, though. I've never really used Jolteon. :\

For the Gardevoir idea...it's pretty much your choice. From a defensive standpoint, the Gallade will be your better option thanks to its already high SDEF and the fact that you'll be raising its DEF to ridiculous levels. Like Krazy said though, your team could possibly use a little more from the SATK standpoint. I'd still keep the Gallade in personal opinion (Gallade can destroy entire teams if you play it right), but the Gardevoir would be excellent too. Just test it and see what generally works out better.

Oh, and if you do keep the Gallade, then viable options for replacing will-o-wisp are either going to be hypnosis or thunder wave. Thunder wave is generally going to be more reliable though, so I'd stick with that.

 

[KrazyGlue]

For future reference, the reason why focus sash is risky (and possibly not even a viable option most of the time) on Ninjask is for one of two reasons; first for leading and second for later game.

Well, it's certainly viable; whether or not it's the best option is one thing, but considering it's a hell of a lot more common than leftovers, you can't claim that it's not viable. I've never seen a ninjask with leftovers in any battle.

First: Hippowdon and TTar are rather common leads from what I've noticed, so no matter what your focus sash is going to be ruined after the first turn if they're out. Plus if you SD on the first turn (although I'd hope you wouldn't in that situation), then Angry Hungry Hippo or Mr. Boah have a chance to run you through and you'll lose your entire setup. Leftovers is just for you to keep on healing so you can use more subs, which is a much safer option, imo.

I've only seen one hippo lead and 2 TTar leads out of a lot of battles. In the case that you are facing one, just throw up a sub. And just in general, your ninjask isn't going to be out long at all, so leftovers is really not going to factor into how long you survive. FS gives you more options, such as the chance to SD; if you're using leftovers, you'll usually end up throwing up a sub or two and passing on only speed. And the gallade doesn't care whether it gets 3 or 4 speed boosts; it already outspeeds almost everything after 1 or 2.

Two: When not leading, stealth rocks is almost guaranteed to be there unless you carry a spinner, so just upon switching in you'll end up losing the usefulness of the focus sash. Nothing else to really be said about that.

I've never seen the usefulness of a non-leading ninjask, unless you're trying for a sub-liechi sweep. If you're planning to throw up a sub and pass a speed boost, you have better options than ninjask. And hippo with no speed EVs isn't going to outspeed much, anyway. Gallade only needs one speed boost, so the option of sub-ing twice isn't really necessary. Yes, FS is not your best option for non-leads (which, again, aren't really that useful imo), but neither is leftovers.

 

[c3gill]

Well, it's certainly viable; whether or not it's the best option is one thing, but considering it's a hell of a lot more common than leftovers, you can't claim that it's not viable. I've never seen a ninjask with leftovers in any battle.

I've only seen one hippo lead and 2 TTar leads out of a lot of battles. In the case that you are facing one, just throw up a sub. And just in general, your ninjask isn't going to be out long at all, so leftovers is really not going to factor into how long you survive. FS gives you more options, such as the chance to SD; if you're using leftovers, you'll usually end up throwing up a sub or two and passing on only speed. And the gallade doesn't care whether it gets 3 or 4 speed boosts; it already outspeeds almost everything after 1 or 2.

I've never seen the usefulness of a non-leading ninjask, unless you're trying for a sub-liechi sweep. And if you think ninjask can take a hit at 50% with or without leftovers, well, good luck. Yes, FS is not your best option for non-leads (which, again, aren't really that useful imo), but neither is leftovers.

WHAT? Ninjask generally runs leftovers- it gives you an extra sub if you go for max HP. Hippo is a common lead (In Febuary, Ttar and Hippo were 8th and 9th most common leads in OU, respectively) and can easily screw up a Ninjask without Lefties- here is how.

Ninjask sub, Hippo SR
Ninjask SD, Hippo Ice Fang/ Fire Fang- breaks sub
Ninjask Sub, Hippo Ice Fang/ Fire Fang- breaks sub
Ninjask Sub, Hippo Ice Fang/ Fire Fang- breaks sub
Ninjask Subs, thinking it can get away with 1 more- Hippo Ice Fang/ Fire Fang- breaks sub, SS kills Ninjask.

Its happened to me before, I love my Hippo Lead.

Focus Sash kills one of the main points of Ninjask, and that is to BP a ton of speed- youll only get 1 boost, and have to run. Leftovers is always better- Focus Sash is a novelty at best. If your not leading Ninjask, FS loses its use in SR or SS, one of which is probabally going to be active.

Having a 2x weakness to SR is massive, Ninjasks best set is a lead (to avoid SR) BPer, generally of speed, but an SD is nice if you can manage to pass it as well. Always Lefties, unless your running some random gimmick set.

 

[KrazyGlue]

WHAT? Ninjask generally runs leftovers- it gives you an extra sub if you go for max HP. Hippo is a common lead (In Febuary, Ttar and Hippo were 8th and 9th most common leads in OU, respectively) and can easily screw up a Ninjask without Lefties- here is how.

8th and 9th most common? So that means... about 2% of people use each one? Only the top 5 or so leads are somewhat common.

Ninjask sub, Hippo SR
Ninjask SD, Hippo Ice Fang/ Fire Fang- breaks sub
Ninjask Sub, Hippo Ice Fang/ Fire Fang- breaks sub
Ninjask Sub, Hippo Ice Fang/ Fire Fang- breaks sub
Ninjask Subs, thinking it can get away with 1 more- Hippo Ice Fang/ Fire Fang- breaks sub, SS kills Ninjask.

Its happened to me before, I love my Hippo Lead.

Focus Sash kills one of the main points of Ninjask, and that is to BP a ton of speed- youll only get 1 boost, and have to run. Leftovers is always better- Focus Sash is a novelty at best. If your not leading Ninjask, FS loses its use in SR or SS, one of which is probabally going to be active.

Umm... just because you have FS doesn't mean substitute is an illegal move. You can still safely BP 3 speed boosts, which is more than enough. It just gives you the option of using SD, whereas you really don't always have that option with leftovers. All that lefties can be used for is a 4th speed boost, which is absolutely unnecessary. And I specifically pointed out that FS is not the best option for non leads.


EDIT: Perhaps in this case, highandmightyjoe doesn't care much about SD, since the BP targets are mainly hippowdon and gallade. But FS is certainly not "a novelty at best".

 

[Circa]

8th and 9th most common? So that means... about 2% of people use each one? Only the top 5 or so leads are somewhat common.

More like 3.5% and 3.2%, but then you have to throw in the fact that ladder battles only occur with people around your same rating, and I'm betting that a lot of the lower ranked leads are going to be used by those guys who probably don't care about rating and just want to battle with favs or something, so chances are you won't face those low ranked leads anyway. With that being said, the top 10 are what you mainly need to pay attention to, because those are what you're most likely going to see when sitting on a higher rating in standard. That increases your chances of running into these leads by quite a bit, if I had to gander. Then throw in the fact that you have TWO of them up there, and they're both about the same in percentage. That means that it'd double the chance, which essentially makes a Sandstorm lead somewhere between the 1st and 3rd most common lead in standard play.

Umm... just because you have FS doesn't mean substitute is an illegal move. You can still safely BP 3 speed boosts, which is more than enough. It just gives you the option of using SD, whereas you really don't always have that option with leftovers. All that lefties can be used for is a 4th speed boost, which is absolutely unnecessary. And I specifically pointed out that FS is not the best option for non leads.

I basically covered the reason why focus sash isn't too smart on a lead with the above comment. Sandstorm lead is going to be too common for you normally, so getting off that SD that you're so hoping for isn't going to be too worth it, because then your focus sash will be useless no matter what. Plus, considering how common first turn stealth rocks are on sandstorm teams anyway, you're STILL going to get off your first turn SD, and you'll be gaining back your HP loss thanks to leftovers. And remember that with the set I provided, you're switching between protect and sub, which means you'll get all 6 boosts off no problem. And on teams that don't run a sandstorm lead, you'll gain 2 (count 'em, 2) usable subs technically (once if SR are out, which they more than likely will be), which puts you up enough to let you BP twice in the same game for speed boosts. Overall, leftovers is just a more logical and much safer choice.

Oh, and it was actually me who said that focus sash wasn't the best option in both non-lead and lead position, but whatevs.

 

[KrazyGlue]

I see your concern, but 6.7% chance of sand stream isn't really that scary. And six speed boosts is WAY beyond what is necessary; I'm pretty sure that's quadrupling your speed, which, unless you want to outrun speed deoxys, is unnecessary. What I'm saying is that you'll get enough speed boosts (3) with FS anyway, and your chances are better for getting a safe SD.

Essentially you get the same deal for a lead ninjask, except leftovers gives you a 4th (and useless imo) speed boost, but FS gives you the option of either taking 3 speed boosts or safely using 1 speed boost and an SD. In other words, you have options for both hippowdon (3 speed boosts) and gallade (1 SD, 1 speed boost). You have more situational freedom with FS imo.

Also, if you try to SD with lefties ninjask, you'll be smashed by a lead that expects substitute.

And if you do end up running into a sand stream lead, you can always just safely BP 3 speed boosts, which is definitely enough.

Oh, and it was actually me who said that focus sash wasn't the best option in both non-lead and lead position, but whatevs.

Oh, didn't see that. But I also said so earlier.


EDIT: I just realized how dumb this debate is. We're agruing over negligible differences, and should probably be focusing more on how we can help highandmightyjoe with his team.

 

[Circa]

I see your concern, but 6.7% chance of sand stream isn't really that scary. And six speed boosts is WAY beyond what is necessary; I'm pretty sure that's quadrupling your speed, which, unless you want to outrun speed deoxys, is unnecessary. What I'm saying is that you'll get enough speed boosts (3) with FS anyway, and your chances are better for getting a safe SD.

I was about to then say something about Metagross, who is the #1 most common lead in the game with 8.4% usage, but then I remembered that you might as well commit suicide if you're going to run Ninjask against Metagross, no matter what set you use.

Anyway, I was mainly just going to say sorry to highandmightyjoe for the debate being put into his RMT thread...so sorry. We didn't mean to. D:

EDIT: W00T for blind agreement! Rofl. I didn't even read your edits when putting in the last part.

 

[c3gill]

8th and 9th most common? So that means... about 2% of people use each one? Only the top 5 or so leads are somewhat common.

Umm... just because you have FS doesn't mean substitute is an illegal move. You can still safely BP 3 speed boosts, which is more than enough. It just gives you the option of using SD, whereas you really don't always have that option with leftovers. All that lefties can be used for is a 4th speed boost, which is absolutely unnecessary. And I specifically pointed out that FS is not the best option for non leads.

1st was Metagross, at 8.35% everyone in the top 10 was over 3%- they are who we should consider the most common leads. I enjoy the irony that Ninjasks only decent set is the lead, which isnt in that top 10. Hippo and Ttar leads are more common than Ninjask leads.

Focus Sash only works when you are at 100%- Substitute on a FS set is useless. And yea, FS is generally worthless- passing a single SD isnt nearly as effective as passing +6 speed- speed is everything in the current metagame. Give Scizor enough speed to outrun a Scarftran, and that Scizor wins the match. Those extra spped boosts are worth everything, and you have sub so if your opponent decides to switch, you CAN get a SD in.

Focus Sash doesnt work in SS or hail, and gets killed by SR also. If you plan on using a FS, use it on a pokemon that doesnt take spikes or SS damage, and pray your opponent doesnt set SR up. Flygon/Gilscor seem to be your best 2 bets for those.

I see your concern, but 6.7% chance of sand stream isn't really that scary.

What about hail? what about priority moves? (yea, one of my favorite team leads EVER was a Weavile- Ice Shard your face in)

 

[KrazyGlue]

Anyway, I was mainly just going to say sorry to highandmightyjoe for the debate being put into his RMT thread...so sorry. We didn't mean to. D:

EDIT: W00T for blind agreement! Rofl. I didn't even read your edits when putting in the last part.

Ok, glad we have that over with.

____________________________________________________

Hey joe, how about you edit the first post so we can see what your updated team looks like? Then we'll be able to help out more. I'm assuming you've at least changed the jolteon and possibly tried out the gardevoir set.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

My team is updated now, please critique the new line-up. I feel that it's better than what I had before but still needs some work. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

Sorry for double post, but my team is pretty much completely changed now and I'm looking for some opinions. Please critique.

 

[Niiro]

Okay my team has gone threw a lot of changes lately, this is my latest build.

Crobat/Leftovers
Timid
126 HP 132 Att 252 Spe
Hypnosis
Taunt
U-turn
Aerial Ace
Eh, could work I guess. Not a really great lead though, and consider this to something more generic, yet more suited as a lead.

Vaporeon/Leftovers
Bold
190 HP 252 Spa 68 Spe
Surf
Hidden Power Electric
Wish
Protect
eh, wierd EVs. What's so bad with Smogon's Vap set?

Jolteon/Leftovers
Lonely
6 HP 252 Spa 252 Spe
Thunderbolt
Hidden Power Grass
Wish
Fake Tears
Wrong nature man. And I really don't see what this set is trying to acomplish

Heatran/Leftovers
Timid
6 HP 252 Spa 252 Spe
Fire Blast
Earth Power
Explosion
Stealth Rock
Fine I guess. However, if you change the Item to Choice Scarf, and the SR to HP Ice, your Salamence problem would dissapear.

Machamp/Leftovers
Adamant
No Guard
252 HP 128 Att 130 Spe
Dynamic Punch
Ice Punch
Payback
Bulk Up
IMO, you are not using No Guard to its fullest potential. Stone Edge over Payback, unless super bulky ghosts scare you.

Flygon/Life Orb
Jolly
32 HP 10 Def 252 Att 216 Spe
Earthquake
Dragon Claw
Fire Blast
U-Turn
Fine/


Pretty much completely redid my team, only Crobat stayed the same. So far it seems to work pretty well, except that I seem to get walled by Salamence, not much here can deal with it well. The main reason Machamp is there is because I felt that I needed an answer to Blissey and it does that fairly well. I have considered taking him out for a Mamoswine to give me better coverage with ice shard, probably a set that also includes Toxic. Any help would be appreciated.

Dude, alittle explaination for each poke would be nice.
I don't see any team compatibility, it seems to me more like you have just thrown some pokes together because you like what they do. This is a rather slow team, and this can be a problem when dealing with the likes of Azelf, Infernape, and Pokemon like that.

 

[c3gill]

Dude, alittle explaination for each poke would be nice.
I don't see any team compatibility, it seems to me more like you have just thrown some pokes together because you like what they do. This is a rather slow team, and this can be a problem when dealing with the likes of Azelf, Infernape, and Pokemon like that.

that pretty much nailed it. wtf is up with that jolteon set? throw up HP Ice, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, and a fun filler (Baton Pass gets some fun surprises)- give that dude a Choice Specs, timid nature, and go crazy.

wish isnt the way to go on Jolteon

 

[highandmightyjoe]

The nature on Jolteon and the EV's on Vaporeon where misprints, I corrected them. I know the Jolteon set seems weird, but I've been playing around with it some and its been working out for me pretty well so far. I also already mentioned that the Machamp is probably getting replaced.

I was just to lazy to add descriptions earlier, I'll do that now. Thanks.

 

[KrazyGlue]

I gotta agree with Niiro on everything. Unless you're using a sweeper set, Jolteon's not very good. Who did you play that jolteon with wish worked well against?

EDIT: You could make machamp your lead instead of getting rid of it.

 

[Circa]

I agree with KrazyGlue on the Machamp as a lead thing. Look at what he did with his on his RMT (it should just be a bit farther down on the subforum), and it should give you some ideas. Guts+dynamic punch on scarfed Machamp basically ***** set-up leads, and for obvious reasons. It may not be your best option, but it's pretty danged good.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

Thanks guys. I understand that the Jolteon isn't all that great, if I take anything out it would be him first I suppose, but I think I'll try him out for just a bit longer to see how it works out. I have a feeling he is only working for me so far because my opponent makes dumb mistakes, not because he is actually good. I've killed two Swamperts that switched in on me with Hidden Power. I will also try the Machamp lead idea out, though I am a fan of the Crobat lead.

As for HP Ice on Heatran, I really hadn't considered that, but it sounds like a good idea. I would feel more comfortable if I had someone else to lay down stealth rocks with too though. Maybe I could take out the Jolteon for a new stealth rock user?

 

[Deleted member]

try modest Jolteon. Most of the things in between 359 and 394 speed are weak to Jolteon's common attacks and will rarely challenge your speed. the extra kick goes a long way though.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Choice Scarf+No guard+Dynamic punch=****

It can beat most leads other than azelf.

EDIT: Yeah, what umbreon said.

 

[Circa]

I third what Umbreon said. I actually was going to say that, but it completely slipped my mind when I said the thing about Machamp. D:

I couldn't figure out for the life of me why you gave it a lonely nature. Lonely is a boost on ATK and a drop on DEF. Your Pokemon has no ATK-based moves and its DEF is already bad enough to the point where you'd want to avoid lowering it anymore in the first place. :\ Modest is your best bet. Either that or timid if you need the speed boost, but modest is still better imo.

So yeah...what Umbreon said.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

Like I said, the Nature on Jolteon, and the EVs on Vaporeon where typos, I corrected them. If I keep the Jolteon in though, I will consider Umbreons suggestion.

 

[Niiro]

Choice Scarf+No guard+Dynamic punch=****

It can beat most leads other than azelf.

EDIT: Yeah, what umbreon said.

This is true. Unless you are wierd like me and run max speed nape.

 

[KrazyGlue]

This is true. Unless you are wierd like me and run max speed nape.

Yeah... fake out+close combat can get machamp. But if he survives, earthquake kills nape.

 

[Niiro]

I runs specs starter nape D: