FD vs Spacies

[Dandy_here]

I am trying to gather as much detail as possible about this as WNY is a spacie filled region. I understand the chain grabs, but what I want to know is how do I go about a spacie that is laser camping, and a spacie who is very aggressive.

 

[Life]

Experiment with DI and SDI to try to defang their punish games as best as you can, for one thing.

For Fox:

The way you deal with laser camping is that you have to quickly but carefully make your way over to a space where you can punish Fox for SHDLing. This forces him to switch to DD camping, or else just straight-up approach you. Both of those are things Fox can do very well, mind you, but it's better than sitting across the stage taking free damage.

As for dealing with aggro, if they're just approaching 100% of the time, they're probably pretty predictable about it so you can get free tippers. More likely, they're going to try to bait out something before they make their move, or at least waiting until they can get a good spacing to start up their shield pressure. Anything more specific than that varies from player to player.

For Falco:

Falco wants to be in this space where he can approach safely with a forward SHL. If you're a bit too close (about tipper distance) without being directly on top of him, you're at an advantage. If you're too far, you can powershield on reaction. It's also perfectly fine to eat lasers--just as long as you pre-empt them by moving so that Falco can't combo you. If Falco SHL's at you but you dash back instead of standing there in shield, you'll probably end up at that sweetspot distance by the time you're out of hitstun from the laser.

A Falco that's playing a pure rushdown game without using lasers to create the openings he needs is playing the wrong character and should switch to Fox because he does that better. If you fight a Falco that does this, just hit him out of everything until he learns to press B.

 

[Dandy_here]

Experiment with DI and SDI to try to defang their punish games as best as you can, for one thing.

For Fox:

The way you deal with laser camping is that you have to quickly but carefully make your way over to a space where you can punish Fox for SHDLing. This forces him to switch to DD camping, or else just straight-up approach you. Both of those are things Fox can do very well, mind you, but it's better than sitting across the stage taking free damage.

As for dealing with aggro, if they're just approaching 100% of the time, they're probably pretty predictable about it so you can get free tippers. More likely, they're going to try to bait out something before they make their move, or at least waiting until they can get a good spacing to start up their shield pressure. Anything more specific than that varies from player to player.

For Falco:

Falco wants to be in this space where he can approach safely with a forward SHL. If you're a bit too close (about tipper distance) without being directly on top of him, you're at an advantage. If you're too far, you can powershield on reaction. It's also perfectly fine to eat lasers--just as long as you pre-empt them by moving so that Falco can't combo you. If Falco SHL's at you but you dash back instead of standing there in shield, you'll probably end up at that sweetspot distance by the time you're out of hitstun from the laser.

A Falco that's playing a pure rushdown game without using lasers to create the openings he needs is playing the wrong character and should switch to Fox because he does that better. If you fight a Falco that does this, just hit him out of everything until he learns to press B.

Thanks. Got my second tournament this week. I am putting all of my time in to melee and its gonna be very deep. I used to play fox actually, but switched to Marth. I am learning a lot about the neutral and smaller details, just ironing out the wrinkles

 

[FE_Hector]

If you're getting taken to FD a lot, you need to be able to chaingrab the **** out of them for the free damage, be sure you can edgeguard, and punish like there's no tomorrow.

 

[Saint Shaden 009]

Also, kinda off-topic, but learning the timing for jabbing a spacey out of their side-b is definitely a must for edgeguards. It boosted my edgeguard game a metric ton when I finally got the timing down. Then, you can do the counter into whatever into a kill.

 

[FE_Hector]

Also, kinda off-topic, but learning the timing for jabbing a spacey out of their side-b is definitely a must for edgeguards. It boosted my edgeguard game a metric ton when I finally got the timing down. Then, you can do the counter into whatever into a kill.

Unfortunately, Smashboards only grants me one like

 

[Dandy_here]

If you're getting taken to FD a lot, you need to be able to chaingrab the **** out of them for the free damage, be sure you can edgeguard, and punish like there's no tomorrow.

I can do that ez, that itself along with edge guarding isn't the problem, it's really the neutral game

 

[FE_Hector]

I can do that ez, that itself along with edge guarding isn't the problem, it's really the neutral game

If they're getting in close, threaten them. If you watch PPMD vs a good Fox, he DDs right near them, super tight, and kinda camps that spot. If they don't do anything, he attacks. If they try to approach, he DDs out of their range and then comes in with a grab. Just make them respect the DD, punish hard, and try to force whiffs. Sorry I can't give more info, I haven't played in nearly enough tourneys

 

[-ACE-]

Marth vs spacies:

At 0% it's a much different game than when they're at that lovely 30-60%. At very low% you want to rack up damage as safely as possible, which is done by hitting them with a tipper fair, tipper dtilt, or best of all, grab (cg). Marth's (DD) grab game is still untapped. You can watch PPMD for a virtually perfect DD game in neutral, but one day there will be someone techchasing like wizzy's falcon/m2k's sheik with marth, I know it. When juggling it's good to know the importance of the difference between a tipper uair and a non-tipper uair so you can properly follow up. Non-tipper uair can lead to regrabs at fairly high%. Around 55% to 70% you're looking for uthrow to fsmash (above 60% requires a baby step forward/back if they DI fully). Try to tipper it, but anything that sends them offstage the earliest is best. Edgeguarding them is all dtilt and jab basically. Know when to double jab, for low%/SDI/shortened side-b. Marth has the best edgeguarding tools in the game, so resist temptation to continue combos OR give up stage control; always try to get them offstage. When they're at high%, keep calm and don't get greedy or antsy for the ko. Keep your neutral game solid and take the ko when it comes or you'll get bodied. Shield DI and ASDI/cc his approaches for easier grabs and more oos options. Reverse up-b oos is wicked when you throw off their approach (like, force them to hit your shield early/high up and miss the L-cancel... perks of having a great neutral game) and is underused. Something to keep in mind. Also out of fthrow, wd forward ftilt can often be better then fsmash (not great for spacies but still). Shield DI shines and grab/fair oos. PS to reverse up-b. ASDI grab (down and away or down and in) jabs and other low kb attacks. Safely put damage on him, get him offstage. PS falco lasers. If you are hit with one midair fair instantly. At the very minimum wd oos or SDI the laser.

^^ horribly organized thoughts, but good stuff, I promise

 

[FE_Hector]

Marth vs spacies:

At 0% it's a much different game than when they're at that lovely 30-60%. At very low% you want to rack up damage as safely as possible, which is done by hitting them with a tipper fair, tipper dtilt, or best of all, grab (cg). Marth's (DD) grab game is still untapped. You can watch PPMD for a virtually perfect DD game in neutral, but one day there will be someone techchasing like wizzy's falcon/m2k's sheik with marth, I know it. When juggling it's good to know the importance of the difference between a tipper uair and a non-tipper uair so you can properly follow up. Non-tipper uair can lead to regrabs at fairly high%. Around 55% to 70% you're looking for uthrow to fsmash (above 60% requires a baby step forward/back if they DI fully). Try to tipper it, but anything that sends them offstage the earliest is best. Edgeguarding them is all dtilt and jab basically. Know when to double jab, for low%/SDI/shortened side-b. Marth has the best edgeguarding tools in the game, so resist temptation to continue combos OR give up stage control; always try to get them offstage. When they're at high%, keep calm and don't get greedy or antsy for the ko. Keep your neutral game solid and take the ko when it comes or you'll get bodied. Shield DI and ASDI/cc his approaches for easier grabs and more oos options. Reverse up-b oos is wicked when you throw off their approach (like, force them to hit your shield early/high up and mid the L-cancel... perks of having a great neutral game) and is underused. Something to keep in mind. Also out of fthrow, wd forward ftilt can often be better then fsmash (not great for spacies but still). Shield DI shines and grab/fair oos. PS to reverse up-b. ASDI grab (down and away or down and in) jabs and other low kb attacks. Safely put damage on him, get him offstage. PS falco lasers. If you are hit with one midair fair instantly. At the very minimum wd oos or SDI the laser.

^^ horribly organized thoughts, but good stuff, I promise

Ledgehop dair can be useful in edgeguarding, as is setting yourself up for "Press R edgeguards"

 

[-ACE-]

I mean you can even shffl dair sweetspots just standing at the ledge. Dair is very versatile because of the size and duration of the spike hitbox. Great choice, but if you have time to be onstage, dtilt and jab are the bread and butter.

 

[-ACE-]

Also a little above 70% when uthrow fsmash becomes impossible, uthrow to reverse up-b is often the most optimal punish.

 

[FE_Hector]

I mean you can even shffl dair sweetspots just standing at the ledge. Dair is very versatile because of the size and duration of the spike hitbox. Great choice, but if you have time to be onstage, dtilt and jab are the bread and butter.

Yeah they are for sure. I prefer forcing my opponent to sweetspot and then just edgehogging. It doesn't look too good, but they still die.