Favorite DK tech? And most difficult DK tech for you?

[Plunder]

Mine sort of overlap but I'm curious how others do solo practice and maybe implement that into their sets.


I'll start with the most difficult for me to do consistently -
Dash SH > Turn Giant Punch Cancel > Bair > L cancel
(and by association getting the fastest 7 frame GP cancels)
This one is very tough and I only get it maybe 1 out of 7 times. The timing feels as tight as Mario's SH Bair WL's, you have to cancel the GP before it even reaches the first "glint" rotation animation.

This next one seems very useful but it's strange because sometimes I can do it 10 times in a row and then I can go the next 10 times without being able to do it once.
Run off stage > Turn Giant Punch Cancel > Ledge grab
It's pretty lenient, but a very fast way to grab ledge you can even FF a bit if you get the fastest cancel. But I seem to Headbutt side-B back to back on accident and then other times it's like I'm in the zone. It so random for me when it's a success.

These 3 are related to the first and I can get them everytime now.
Dash SH > Turn Giant Punch Cancel > WL
Spinning Kong under Battlefield and popping to grabbing the ledge from underneath
Dash SH > Turn Giant Punch Cancel > Ledgegrab
One kinda useful as mix ups and the other as a fast way to reach the ledge.


Stuff I need to practice because I miss it sometimes in serious bracket sets -
1. Instant inv. Uair AC on stage from ledge > follow up
2. WL Bairs off ledge > recover
3. Dash turns > bair while moving the opposite direction (DK's dash turn feels different to me, like its slower or more difficult)
4. Wall tech to instant Bair

 

[Soupeschleg]

my favorite dk tech is the one everybody misses when you throw them under battlefield

 

[TheBoat]

My favourite DK tech is just getting the invincible up B crack on a Falco coming down with a dair. They're usually fastfalling so their DI is usually hilarious.

 

[krazyzyko]

Fave= Cargocide
Hardest = ledge hop > giant punch > regrab

 

[wutadisaster]

Mine sort of overlap but I'm curious how others do solo practice and maybe implement that into their sets.


I'll start with the most difficult for me to do consistently -
Dash SH > Turn Giant Punch Cancel > Bair > L cancel
(and by association getting the fastest 7 frame GP cancels)
This one is very tough and I only get it maybe 1 out of 7 times. The timing feels as tight as Mario's SH Bair WL's, you have to cancel the GP before it even reaches the first "glint" rotation animation.

This next one seems very useful but it's strange because sometimes I can do it 10 times in a row and then I can go the next 10 times without being able to do it once.
Run off stage > Turn Giant Punch Cancel > Ledge grab
It's pretty lenient, but a very fast way to grab ledge you can even FF a bit if you get the fastest cancel. But I seem to Headbutt side-B back to back on accident and then other times it's like I'm in the zone. It so random for me when it's a success.

These 3 are related to the first and I can get them everytime now.
Dash SH > Turn Giant Punch Cancel > WL
Spinning Kong under Battlefield and popping to grabbing the ledge from underneath
Dash SH > Turn Giant Punch Cancel > Ledgegrab
One kinda useful as mix ups and the other as a fast way to reach the ledge.


Stuff I need to practice because I miss it sometimes in serious bracket sets -
1. Instant inv. Uair AC on stage from ledge > follow up
2. WL Bairs off ledge > recover
3. Dash turns > bair while moving the opposite direction (DK's dash turn feels different to me, like its slower or more difficult)
4. Wall tech to instant Bair

god bless you as someone who is still learning and cant really think of how to put stuff together this is really helpful and something i can practice

 

[ihasabuket]

Rising bair -> DJ bair -> falling bair. It's such an intimidating wall move.

3. Dash turns > bair while moving the opposite direction (DK's dash turn feels different to me, like its slower or more difficult)

Do you mean pivot bair while analog jumping in the direction youre bairing?

 

[jonnobigz]

Fave= Cargocide
Hardest = ledge hop > giant punch > regrab

Did not know you could regrab after punch. I usually just ledgehop punch and land on stage.

 

[TastyCarcass]

Did not know you could regrab after punch. I usually just ledgehop punch and land on stage.

I did it by accident once and I almost fainted. Did not know it was a thing. Think they have to be in the air though.

Dash SH > Turn Giant Punch Cancel > Bair > L cancel

I don't think this is worth doing. Learn to pivot bair or shield stop bair, same thing, much easier, much more control.

 

[Plunder]

I did it by accident once and I almost fainted. Did not know it was a thing. Think they have to be in the air though.

Dash SH > Turn Giant Punch Cancel > Bair > L cancel

I don't think this is worth doing. Learn to pivot bair or shield stop bair, same thing, much easier, much more control.

Well my follow konger, ya see this is where actual experience comes into play.

It is highly useful for tech chasing, allowing you to cover far more distance on an opponents who has teched away and possibly net a KO that would otherwise not be possible.

What you are describing doesn't fulfill the same role as the tech I mentioned can. Not by a mile.

 

[TastyCarcass]

It does, you want a forward facing bair, do a pivot bair.
You keep none of the momentum from turning around if you do it right, you get a full momentum jump in the direction you were facing, and you're not super obvious with a swinging fist. Whilst in the air you can fade back, and you have time to not do the bair and waveland if you need to abort.
What exactly does turn cancel bair give you that this doesn't? All I can think of is the ability to do it out of run, but DK's dash is super long anyway.

 

[Plunder]

It does, you want a forward facing bair, do a pivot bair.
You keep none of the momentum from turning around if you do it right, you get a full momentum jump in the direction you were facing, and you're not super obvious with a swinging fist. Whilst in the air you can fade back, and you have time to not do the bair and waveland if you need to abort.
What exactly does turn cancel bair give you that this doesn't? All I can think of is the ability to do it out of run, but DK's dash is super long anyway.

I think we are on 2 different levels of understanding about this game. A lot of what you said doesn't quite make sense or you are misunderstanding the very tech you are questioning.

DK forward dash jump covers half of even the largest stages the whole point is to be able to cover massive distance and have a fast powerful attack right at the end of it. Can be used for guarding a far away ledge as they recover or tech chasing when they tech away. Pretty simple.

If they have tech rolled they can't react or chose other options they are locked in for about 40 frames, so what are you talking about with them supposedly seeing the "super obvious swinging fist" it literally doesn't matter, they have no choice. And BTW human reaction isn't that fast even if you were in a position to react to it. That about 10 to 14 frames from seeing the turn to getting hit with the bair, with input delay the soonest you can react is about 20 frames. Plus you still have tons of options, you don't have to bair. You can do the turn around, empty land, then dash JC grab them or Waveland either way into a follow up. Mind games and conditioning, it's a versatile tech to learn.

 

[TastyCarcass]

I think we are on 2 different levels of understanding about this game. A lot of what you said doesn't quite make sense or you are misunderstanding the very tech you are questioning.

DK forward dash jump covers half of even the largest stages the whole point is to be able to cover massive distance and have a fast powerful attack right at the end of it. Can be used for guarding a far away ledge as they recover or tech chasing when they tech away. Pretty simple.

If they have tech rolled they can't react or chose other options they are locked in for about 40 frames, so what are you talking about with them supposedly seeing the "super obvious swinging fist" it literally doesn't matter, they have no choice. And BTW human reaction isn't that fast even if you were in a position to react to it. That about 10 to 14 frames from seeing the turn to getting hit with the bair, with input delay the soonest you can react is about 20 frames. Plus you still have tons of options, you don't have to bair. You can do the turn around, empty land, then dash JC grab them or Waveland either way into a follow up. Mind games and conditioning, it's a versatile tech to learn.

Ok Dong from another level :^)

Your main use for dash > sh > turnaround GP > cancel > bair is for tech chasing.
The only situation I can think of this being better than dash > pivot > back jump > bair is if you're on dreamland and on the other side of the stage for some reason (doubles maybe?)
At which point you're only covering one option, because you're stuck doing the 3 tight frame inputs for most of your jump. If instead you dashed into a pivot (which covers most of battlefield because DK's dash is long) you can use stomp for the tech in place, DJ stomp for the get up attack, WL for the tech in and giant punch for the tech out.

As for the amount of frames the move takes, you have 5 frames for the Jump Squat, 7 frames for the turnaround and 7 frames for the bair. So that's 19 frames fastest. This is Melee. A lot of players are used to jumping through Falcon nairs. This is far too slow for neutral. You don't need to react to a move, you see what situation they're in and what their options are and cover those, which in this situation is incredibly limited.

They don't even need to react to that, they just need to see a DK with it's back turned coming at them, at which point they can react to the bair you're probably gonna throw out (CC? Trade? Space and grab your bair? Jump over you and dair?). You're stuck in your momentum, you can't fade back, you're stuck to covering the specific space you've committed to. You're not gonna get the Auto Cancel from this tech either, so if they're not idiots you've just put yourself in a lot of trouble.

The only thing this tech can absolutely be useful is if you know exactly where they're going to tech and you don't have decent charge on your punch. Other than that, over pivot bair, you lose control, lose your autocancel and you're stuck in a vulnerable animation for a decent amount of times, all just so you can get a tiny bit extra distance.

 

[Plunder]

I'll be honest with you man it doesn't seem worth my time, some stuff is going over your head and you're exaggerating about how DKs dash pivot covers most of battlefield. And do you realize how DKs AC bair works the heights it hits and how even the weak part isn't active low enough on the AC window to hit a lot of characters...

Not only that but I don't even know if you play this game competitively and for how long, so again I have to think is it worth discussing with you?

Read the last part I wrote above and half your argument will be unnecessary and wrong...

Think about having to commit to the bair immediately and for the full SH and how that goes against one of your very points of having options or telegraphing...

Apply your own biased break down of the frames to what you suggested...

I'm not sure why I first tried to explain it, I realize now there was no point and I've already wasted quite a bit of my time. I'll definitely not engage anymore.

 

[TastyCarcass]

Ok look, I made you a video of pivot bair.
https://youtu.be/Nx08OyjUYTs

Note that I don't get the maximum range of the dash, yet it still covers half of BF. (Specifically the final one, it's still a little tricky to do)

Now compare that to a turn aroundgiant punch cancel bair.

https://youtu.be/uBAHJBHeUco

It's about the same distance, yet no loss of control for half the jump.

For a better comparison, here are some pivot bairs on FD. Sorry about the awful quality, but again you can see that I'm going a very similar distance with much more control. I can even land a bair on pikachu and get the autocancel.
https://youtu.be/hrRbKIcqxnI
I can replace these clips when I have the chance to record.


As to answering the question of the topic, my favourite tech is pivoting, such as pivot bair and pivot f tilt. I don't see many DKs use it

Now look, I think you're being rude.

You're not really discussing it with me personally. This is a forum. If what I'm saying is wrong, say so so others don't recieve the wrong information.

You make a fair point with the auto cancel not being too useful against shorter characters, but don't patronise me and don't ask for irrelevant information to the topic at hand.

 

[Plunder]

Ya this is going nowhere.

Here we'll do this, if you want.

Think about the advantages and disadvantages to approaching with AC Bairs. That weak hit high on shield? That weak hit against CC? Frames to punish where no hitbox is threatening and its whiffed?

Is it all worth the tiny 2 frame difference from L cancel? Is the weak hit you will not doubt get instead of the strong hit an advantage?

Think about what you said previously that dash pivot covers most of battlefield.....not dash pivot jump slowly drift backwards AC Bair. Big difference.

Think about how many frames that all took. Is it really the about same distance? How much longer did it take?

Consider why there is nothing to discuss since you've never actually tried incorporating SH GPC in your game (perhaps even practiced). Theoretical talky talk usually goes nowhere especially if you're just nay saying, that is pointless (the above questions are proof). I prefer a mixture of experience and theorycrafting before I denounce or elevate a tech or approach option.

So again how can we discuss something only one of us has experience with? That's not being rude it seems apparent that's a fact...

Consider that maybe you just haven't figured out the many ways it can be utilized yet.

 

[TastyCarcass]

>how much longer did it take?
It takes the same time, since there is no fast falling in a run > gp cancel > bair. They're both short hops, they take the exact same time.

In fact the pivot can be faster, since you can FF. You can't do this after a gp cancel because the bair won't come out in time.

As for how many frames it took, it's a single bair, so, 7? It might not seem fair to compare it, but the reason I'm not counting the rest of the jump is because I'm in control to do something else at all times, unlike gp cancel which is a tech that occupies the entire short hop.

As for ac advantage, it's not 2 frames, it's 7, since you can cancel the landling lag of a jump by doing basically anything. Quite nice, since you can up b in that time. Still, I said you had a fair point.

I admit I've yet to use sh gp cancel bair in tournament, but that's because it seems pointless. I haven't denied that that is my opinion. Although I do practice it just for the hell of it, I don't think I'll use it in a serious game. I think it's a needless tech that even when first shared here, was known to be overhyped. I've never seen a DK use it in tournament either.

 

[Plunder]

>how much longer did it take?
It takes the same time, since there is no fast falling in a run > gp cancel > bair. They're both short hops, they take the exact same time.

In fact the pivot can be faster, since you can FF. You can't do this after a gp cancel because the bair won't come out in time.

As for how many frames it took, it's a single bair, so, 7? It might not seem fair to compare it, but the reason I'm not counting the rest of the jump is because I'm in control to do something else at all times, unlike gp cancel which is a tech that occupies the entire short hop.

As for ac advantage, it's not 2 frames, it's 7, since you can cancel the landling lag of a jump by doing basically anything. Quite nice, since you can up b in that time. Still, I said you had a fair point.

I admit I've yet to use sh gp cancel bair in tournament, but that's because it seems pointless. I haven't denied that that is my opinion. Although I do practice it just for the hell of it, I don't think I'll use it in a serious game. I think it's a needless tech that even when first shared here, was known to be overhyped. I've never seen a DK use it in tournament either.

This is telling, if you're going to theorycraft there is a lot you need to study up on concerning how this game works before you do so. The two are not the same time....a lot of what you said is false.

I'm not going to list all that is wrong again, here's an obvious one...

It's not 7 frames difference from AC to L-Cancel... IT IS ONLY 2 FRAMES as I said.

AC for DK takes 5 frames once you land where you can't do anything, most other characters it's only 4 frames. DK's Bair L-cancel is 7 frames.

A Weak Bair will hit mid-high on shield and leave you with a severe frame disadvantage that most top tiers can punish hard.

 

[TastyCarcass]

Yeah, my mistake, sorry. I forgot you couldn't cancel the 5 frames.

But still, how are two non ff'd shorthops not the same duration?

 

[krazyzyko]

Did not know you could regrab after punch. I usually just ledgehop punch and land on stage.

It's a tight timing like a grounded shine OoS with Fox. So I usually try it if I have a stock to spare.