Falco's WD timing enquire

[Pure99heisenberg]

Hi guys,
Ive been training waveshining for a while now and still cannot do it consistently, I have some questions I'd really appreciate getting some help with:
1) The 5 frames of jumpsquat, seems like such a small space of time where you should be able to just mash R or L after jumping and be able to wavedash yet I still do it too early and get a full jump. My question on this is: Does the speed at which you press Y matter? I mean if I'm still pressing Y after this very small 5 frame window will I get some sort of lag which causes me to get the jump instead of the wavedash? How is it that I main Falco but I can wavedash easily with every character that has a 4 or less frame squat jump? Should I press the Y button faster?
2)For waveshining around FD without hitting no one, there is no hitstun right? So I can JC inmediately after shine. But what is the hitstun when hitting someone? Is it the same to hit a shield than hitting the opponent?
3)How should I Oos input properly? With the c stick? I find that while getting shield pressured using the c stick to buffer the jump is sometimes a bad idea since I get hit during jump squat, but other times as when the enemy is falling with an aerial the c stick works great for buffering a first frame possible jump, so I should practice both c stick and Y OoS?

Thanks in advance guys, I can't tell you how frustrating it is for me not to be able to WD with my main, I'm starting to think my controller is wrong, that Falco has just a shirt WD, that I should change my main since I cant even WD with it. It's all a negativity spiral caused by my inability to master such a basic. I don't mean to butch about this, that's why I'm asking for advice since I don't want to become one a nagging Falco main. I love my bird, just with I could use all of this tools properly.

 

[Pure99heisenberg]

Now that I re-read my thread I thank God my auto correct covered up all my bad manners.

4) Is it just me or JC the shine seems to change from shining Fox at 0% to shining him over 30%, there is even a loud bass.

 

[GenNyan]

1. Please don't mash. You are pressing L/R too early, the speed that you press y likely has nothing to do with you accidentally full jumping.

2. It's a slight difference. Practice waveshines on nobody, on characters, and on shields. (Dmg ratio .5, max handicap bowser has ~ the same hitstun as hitting a shield, if you don't have 20xx)

3. I honestly don't know enough about the c-stick method to give a good answer, I just use the Y method, which works fine for me.

 

[Pure99heisenberg]

What about enemy %, does timing change? Timing seems to change shining Fox at 0 and 30%

 

[LeadRod]

Percentage of your opponent shouldn't affect the timing for getting out of shine. You might just not be used to getting follow ups a different %, which in that case I'd advise just practicing getting comfortable moving out of your shine with waveshines, ariels, etc. Just stay patient and know that you will master it eventually.

 

[Pure99heisenberg]

So it's ok for me to freeze 0% against fox in 20xx training and just waveshine him until I get the timing right? It's the same timing at any %?
Edit: I'll keep at it and hopefully will be back with followups questions soon. One last question guys, to get the longest WD should I let go of the stick as soon as I'm moving or stick with the same angle I WD towards? Thanks for all of your advices!

 

[LSDX]

Falco's jumpsquat frame is the same as Roy's being the 5th frame. Not sure how much that will help you, but it's not something to be done as quickly as Fox's.

 

[WondrousMoose]

So it's ok for me to freeze 0% against fox in 20xx training and just waveshine him until I get the timing right? It's the same timing at any %?
Edit: I'll keep at it and hopefully will be back with followups questions soon. One last question guys, to get the longest WD should I let go of the stick as soon as I'm moving or stick with the same angle I WD towards? Thanks for all of your advices!

I like to turn on invincibility for all characters (X + d-pad up) and practice there. Be intentional when you practice; notice when you do it right and when you airdodge too early. In case you didn't catch from earlier posts, that's what's making you jump instead of wavedash. I have the perfect wavedash color overlay enabled, and I recommend doing the same to really get the feel for it.
I don't know what your second question is. The length of your wavedash has nothing to do with how long you hold the stick but rather the angle at which you airdodge.

 

[Pure99heisenberg]

I like to turn on invincibility for all characters (X + d-pad up) and practice there. Be intentional when you practice; notice when you do it right and when you airdodge too early. In case you didn't catch from earlier posts, that's what's making you jump instead of wavedash. I have the perfect wavedash color overlay enabled, and I recommend doing the same to really get the feel for it.
I don't know what your second question is. The length of your wavedash has nothing to do with how long you hold the stick but rather the angle at which you airdodge.

What I mean is if I should let go of the stick to retain less grip and slide more, with Samus it seems to work for longer wavedashes

 

[WondrousMoose]

What I mean is if I should let go of the stick to retain less grip and slide more, with Samus it seems to work for longer wavedashes

I guess I get what you're saying. If you hold in a direction after you wavedash, it'll seem to extend things, at least if you're WDing forward. It's best to release as soon as you can, though, in order to keep your inputs more crisp and allow yourself to move quicker and more freely.

 

[Audos]

For mastering your wavedash you will want to input a jump and then airdodge on frame 1 of leaving the ground. Whether you fullhop/shorthop is based on whether or not you release the jump button before you leave the ground, but that doesn't affect the actual wavedash. Feel free to input jump at any speed, just make sure you are timing your airdodge input well. It is often considered easier to WD with a shorter jumpsquat because it is easier to time things closer together. It might not seem like a big difference, but take an extreme example and it makes sense. Like if your squat was 50 frames timing it would be near impossible, int he same way falco's jumpsquat is harder to time effectively than fox.

I'd recommend not juggling between characters with different jumpsquats at first, since they will make it harder for everyone overall. Eventually your muscle memory will be good enough for you to tell if you hit early or late and likely by how many frames you were off (muscle memory is just dope like that).

For adjusting to waveshine timing I'm just say to practice. The shield is a different timing as well. It's pretty hard to get used to all the possible shine mechanics on every variation, but I'm sure you'll get it with practice.

 

[Klemes]

shine has 4 frames of hit lag, in adition to the 5 frames of jumpsquat when you waveshine an opponent/a shield. His percentage when you hit him does not affect your hit lag in any way.