Falco's Lasers

[FE_Hector]

Put simply, I was at tourney today and both sets I lost were to Falco mains. How the heck do I get around those? I just kept getting locked down over and over again and felt so helpless.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

We've talked about this, but movement is key. You need to be able to slide around the stage swiftly. Powershielding is an option too, so consider becoming proficient at it.

 

[FE_Hector]

Neither of those was truly useful. I know movement is key... It's kind of key to the GAME. And counter isn't an option

 

[Link24a]

RIP workaround

 

[A_Reverie]

Put simply, I was at tourney today and both sets I lost were to Falco mains. How the heck do I get around those? I just kept getting locked down over and over again and felt so helpless.

For starters I can tell you what don't want to do. If you know the Falco wants to use lasers, avoid jumping when in mid-range. Marth doesn't ascend very quickly so the laser can catch your tallness before you get high enough, which can can complicate things. Another thing to watch out for is for when you get hit, don't panic and start hitting shield. You can dash very soon out of the laser stun. This can allow you to weave dashes in between each laser and maintain control of your character. Focus on dash dancing and watch for when Falco jumps. If you can time it right, go for a powershield and immediately wavedash out of your shield and resume the dash dance. This is optimal, but not always possible.

Watch for how the Falco uses his lasers. There's a billion ways they can use them, but I'll try and simplify it. Falco can use lasers to either maintain pressure from a distance or pressure while approaching. The key to this is to watch how he jumps. An advancing Falco will jump toward you at some point, but at the same time he can jump away and use another laser. You want to advance on him gradually, and then either watch for his actual approach or try to punish campy behavior.

Falco will most likely approach with D-air, N-air, or a short range laser. All of these are safe on shield if used low enough because of shine, so avoid attempting to shield grab. Instead, if he hits your shield try to buffer a roll with the C-stick and return to neutral and reassess the situation. If you're on top of things, you can wavedash backward OOS to avoid his aerial and go for a grab.

Grab is your best bet for getting in on a Falco trying to camp you. He can shield immediately when landing from a laser so if you insist on trying to poke him, go for D-tilt or Jab as he lands. A lot of times if you hit them, they'll shield and you can go for a grab.

Once you start pressuring Falco, it's important to keep close to him so he doesn't get a chance to regain his control with lasers. Go for grabs, cross-ups, and practice keeping spacies in the air.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

For starters I can tell you what don't want to do. If you know the Falco wants to use lasers, avoid jumping. Marth doesn't ascend very quickly so the laser can catch your tallness before you get high enough, which can can complicate things. Another thing to watch out for is for when you get hit, don't panic and start hitting shield. You can dash very soon out of the laser stun. This can allow you to weave dashes in between each laser and maintain control of your character. Focus on dash dancing and watch for when Falco jumps. If you can time it right, go for a powershield and immediately wavedash out of your shield and resume the dash dance. This is optimal, but not always possible.

Watch for how the Falco uses his lasers. There's a billion ways they can use them, but I'll try and simplify it. Falco can use lasers to either maintain pressure from a distance or pressure while approaching. The key to this is to watch how he jumps. An advancing Falco will jump toward you at some point, but at the same time he can jump away and use another laser. You want to advance on him gradually, and then either watch for his actual approach or try to punish campy behavior.

Falco will most likely approach with D-air, N-air, or a short range laser. All of these are safe on shield if used low enough because of shine, so avoid attempting to shield grab. Instead, if he hits your shield try to buffer a roll with the C-stick and return to neutral and reassess the situation. If you're on top of things, you can wavedash backward OOS to avoid his aerial and go for a grab.

Grab is your best bet for getting in on a Falco trying to camp you. He can shield immediately when landing from a laser so if you insist on trying to poke him, go for D-tilt or Jab as he lands. A lot of times if you hit them, they'll shield and you can go for a grab.

Once you start pressuring Falco, it's important to keep close to him so he doesn't get a chance to regain his control with lasers. Go for grabs, cross-ups, and practice keeping spacies in the air.

A lot of good advice, but I disagree with the first paragraph, or some of it. You should be able to avoid certain laser heights, and jump will give you access to platforms, specifically wavelanding on them, and using it to approach. With good movement, you can get there quickly enough.

 

[A_Reverie]

A lot of good advice, but I disagree with the first paragraph, or some of it. You should be able to avoid certain laser heights, and jump will give you access to platforms, specifically wavelanding on them, and using it to approach. With good movement, you can get there quickly enough.

I forgot to mention platforms. Thanks for pointing this out (my mind likes FD too much.) I'll amend my advice and say avoid jumping when you're too close to Falco but still out of sword range. Other than that, it's safe, especially with platforms. Be wary of how Falco can cover platform heights with lasers, though.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

I forgot to mention platforms. Thanks for pointing this out (my mind likes FD too much.) I'll amend my advice and say avoid jumping when you're too close to Falco but still out of sword range. Other than that, it's safe, especially with platforms. Be wary of how Falco can cover platform heights with lasers, though.

Definitely. Make sure to adapt to how the specific Falco covers the platforms.

 

[NIFOFD]

I believe that the hitstun of lasers can be reduced by crouching/ASDIing down, right? I'll also add that spacing your movement such that the Falco feels threatened while lasering can be pretty good. Some Falco's tend to give up stage control if you push inwards after a laser but linger outside the range of any of their easy aerial approaches (including SHLs). I realize that describing this distance can be a bit difficult. You're best off watching good Marth's demonstrate spacing their movement in the neutral against Falco.

Honestly, you really just need to get super used to being hit by lasers throughout the match. Minimize the degree to which they disrupt you. If you have 20XX, you can set a Falco to SHL laser on FD and get used to dash dancing around while being pelted with lasers. You can also practice powershields and WD OoS after each laser.

 

[ShAd3]

I personally try and powershield them and dodge them using the platforms. Or you can let yourself get hit by some of them cause Marth can act out of the stun pretty quick (but i wouldn't use this if im right next to the falco). i think if you get around the lasers and space correctly this match up is dominated by Marth. But if you miss space yourself Falco can easily turn things around considering how good Falco's neutral game is.

 

[FE_Hector]

@ 20YY SS | Saiblade Think we should keep this kid from the top? jk jk

 

[Stride]

I believe that the hitstun of lasers can be reduced by crouching/ASDIing down, right? I'll also add that spacing your movement such that the Falco feels threatened while lasering can be pretty good. Some Falco's tend to give up stage control if you push inwards after a laser but linger outside the range of any of their easy aerial approaches (including SHLs). I realize that describing this distance can be a bit difficult. You're best off watching good Marth's demonstrate spacing their movement in the neutral against Falco.

Honestly, you really just need to get super used to being hit by lasers throughout the match. Minimize the degree to which they disrupt you. If you have 20XX, you can set a Falco to SHL laser on FD and get used to dash dancing around while being pelted with lasers. You can also practice powershields and WD OoS after each laser.

Only crouch-cancelling reduces hitlag and hitstun (by one third, flooring the result); not ASDI down.

Falco's lasers deal 4 frames of hitlag and 8 frames of hitstun when not crouch-cancelling, and 2 frames of hitlag and 5 frames of hitstun when crouch-cancelling. Because hitlag and hitstun are both floored to give an amount of frames, it doesn't vary enough between characters to make a difference in almost any case; the only time it differs is with PAL Bowser (and possibly NTSC Bowser, whom I haven't checked that yet), who suffers 4 frames of hitstun instead of 5 when crouch-cancelling, but is the same in every other respect. Pichu through Donkey Kong all suffer the same amount of hitlag and hitstun.

 

[Hunybear]

I always see what kind of lasers they're pressuring with. Falcos normally have have one or two ways that they shoot lasers in a natural setting. As a result of muscle memory. See if they shoot low lasers or high. If they normally short hop lazier low u can shot hop over all them. If they always shoot high u can crouch and wave dash under them. If they are better they'll shoot them alternating between high and low and find that special inbetween where they'll get you even if u hop or crouch.at this point all your options depend on stage position of both opponents and where u are relative to falco. From across stage platform approaches and full jumps are relatively safe and close the gap between u and the bird. The whole goal is to use your movement to put falco in a position where lasers are unsafe and they need to act using another option. Dont commit until they give u a reaction. If your in their face and they retreat lasers are a defensive tool to them. This means they'll probably give u all the stage position you want. If they attack when u come in their space lasers are a baiting tool. Dont commit. Dash dance around them and punish any over extensions. If they approach with lasers when ur not close... They're closing the gap for u so lasers arnt that tough to get around just dash after the lazier hits and try not to get caught up in the presure Let me know what u think. These are just my thoughts.

 

[FE_Hector]

I'm reading and appreciating everybody's suggestions, I just don't have any additions/thoughts since I've got 0 experience in the MU. Thanks a ton, everybody.

 

[Hunybear]

I'm reading and appreciating everybody's suggestions, I just don't have any additions/thoughts since I've got 0 experience in the MU. Thanks a ton, everybody.

Pick up falco for a day and that'll probably help a ton because It
really lets u understand some of his limits.

 

[FE_Hector]

Falco's my secondary, but I didn't want to just start using braindead lasers, so instead of lightening up on them, I started off by not using them. I'm working on laser implementation on my Falco now, and I'm starting to understand the limitations of them a bit more, but MU knowledge and experience is really just what I need.