Falco Waveshinging Question

[jacobpilawa]

Yo' guys!

I just have a quick question regarding waveshining. First of all, is the timing different between Fox and Falco's waveshining? I'm sure it is, but they just feel so different which may be why I am messing up.

Okay, so now for the actually question. When I go to wavedash OOS with Falco, I get the shine, the jump, and then only about 40% of the time do I get the airdodge so I can wavedash. I am 100% positive I am inputting an airdodge, but am I just going to fast? When I see people like PP/Mango waveshine, they do it super slick. When I do get it, however, it's much slower than what I see other people do. Any tips/suggestions?

Also, does anyone have the frame data on wavedashing oos?

Thanks a bunch!

 

[Jawz]

It just takes practice dude, It took me forever to waveshine perfectly.

 

[jacobpilawa]

Ah alright. I guess I am just used to the timing on Fox's waveshine.

 

[Jawz]

I'm not a heavy Fox player so I don't really know the timing.

 

[rpotts]

I just have a quick question regarding waveshining. First of all, is the timing different between Fox and Falco's waveshining? I'm sure it is, but they just feel so different which may be why I am messing up.

Yes, their timings are different. Falco's jump comes out a bit slower than Fox's; he spends 2 frames longer in the "jumpsquat" animation, where he's crouched down before he's left the ground. This means you need to input the airdodge 2 frames slower as Falco than if you were Fox, if you're frame perfect.

Okay, so now for the actually question. When I go to wavedash OOS with Falco, I get the shine, the jump, and then only about 40% of the time do I get the airdodge so I can wavedash. I am 100% positive I am inputting an airdodge, but am I just going to fast? When I see people like PP/Mango waveshine, they do it super slick. When I do get it, however, it's much slower than what I see other people do. Any tips/suggestions?

The input for waveshine OoS would be -

[Shield]
[Jump input]
[Frame Delay]
[Jumpsquat]
[Jumpsquat]
[Jumpsquat]
[Jumpsquat]
[Jumpsquat]
[Shine input]
[Frame Delay]
[Shine]
[Hitlag] *
[Hitlag] *
[Hitlag] *
[Hitlag] *
[Double Jump]
[Frame Delay]
[Airdodge]

That's pretty close at least, I'm not sure how long shine's lag lasts on hit vs the normal 2 frames of lag: i.e. not sure if hitlag adds after 2 frames lag or during. So long story short practice, practice, practice. Nobody learned how to perfect waveshine OoS in a day. If you're sure you're inputting an airdodge but it's not coming out you're probably doing it too early. If you practice without hitting anyone and then go to do it in match the frames of hitlag will slow the animation down by 4 frames, meaning that if you input an airdoge in the *'d frames above you'll whiff the airdodge and just jump out of shine.

 

[jacobpilawa]

Yes, their timings are different. Falco's jump comes out a bit slower than Fox's; he spends 2 frames longer in the "jumpsquat" animation, where he's crouched down before he's left the ground. This means you need to input the airdodge 2 frames slower as Falco than if you were Fox, if you're frame perfect.

The input for waveshine OoS would be -

[Shield]
[Jump input]
[Frame Delay]
[Jumpsquat]
[Jumpsquat]
[Jumpsquat]
[Jumpsquat]
[Jumpsquat]
[Shine input]
[Frame Delay]
[Shine]
[Hitlag] *
[Hitlag] *
[Hitlag] *
[Hitlag] *
[Double Jump]
[Frame Delay]
[Airdodge]

That's pretty close at least, I'm not sure how long shine's lag lasts on hit vs the normal 2 frames of lag: i.e. not sure if hitlag adds after 2 frames lag or during. So long story short practice, practice, practice. Nobody learned how to perfect waveshine OoS in a day. If you're sure you're inputting an airdodge but it's not coming out you're probably doing it too early. If you practice without hitting anyone and then go to do it in match the frames of hitlag will slow the animation down by 4 frames, meaning that if you input an airdoge in the *'d frames above you'll whiff the airdodge and just jump out of shine.

Thanks a bunch dude! I was under the impression Fox and Falco were the same. I'll have to work on going slower than. <3

 

[niffyjiffy]

Make sure you can normally wavedash with Falco. When I switched from other characters like Marth, Falco's 6 frame (iirc) jumpsquat really threw me off. One just gradually gets the hang of it.

 

[Sweet™]

BABY JACOB.

I find it's easier if I waveshine with Fox using X, and waveshine with Falco using Y.

Try switching it up a little bit.

 

[TheHosecloth]

^ I made the switch to claw grip about 3 months ago, and I find that a "trigger" wavedash input with Y (index finger) followed up by R (ring finger) is very smooth and natural with Falco's slower jumpsquat. If you're fresh to Falco and don't have too much muscle memory built up, trying to wavedash with Y may help you out a bit.

Also, when I was struggling with waveshining, I saw a post that said to input the waveshine as Shine > return control stick to neutral > jump > move control stick to side > L/R. This way, you build up a habit of entering commands in such a way that you won't accidentally shine turnaround with the control stick and flub the waveshine. However, if your problem is only mistiming the wavedash out of Falco's slow jumpsquat, then you'll just have to keep working on it.

 

[jacobpilawa]

BABY JACOB.

I find it's easier if I waveshine with Fox using X, and waveshine with Falco using Y.

Try switching it up a little bit.

This was like 30 years ago. I can waveshine Marth across FD now, lmao. (W/ Fox. Falco is EZ)