Falco V M2

[ep1c_marf]

any input on anyonethat has,alot of exp in this MU

 

[HK_Spadez]

Depends who you play. a lot of characters can 0 -> Death a falco. so just need to be patient. slowly approach with shield and then WD out of shield. and combo the crap out of him.

 

[Nail.exe]

Let's take a look at this matchup going very, very badly for us:

Obversve M2K in the neutral game. Observe how there is nothing to observe. M2K is dashdaching and twiddling his thumbs, because he knows all he has to do is wait for Falco to do Falco stuff, and when Janya tries to approach M2K / pressure his shield, M2 just shield grabs, and easily converts that grab into a juggle / edgeguard, or up smash OOS to kill outright.

From this, we can derive: safe pressure and approaches are the MOST import things in this matchup. If you do not do them, you will get grabbed and you will die with such certainty that you'd think you just got wobbled.

So if you go through the few Falco v M2 videos that exist, you can go through every interaction where Mewtwo is on the ground, and Falco does something (attacks, approaches, whatever, really) and doesn't get grabbed- stop and look really closely at that interaction, and ask "Why didn't Falco get grabbed? Did the M2 player make a mistake, or did the Falco player do something right?"

I'd also try to gleam as many morsels as you can from this video:

Particularly... I find the interaction at 6:20 - 6:21 to be really interesting, but probably not... practical.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

The matchup is a bit like against Marth on FD. You can protect yourself quite a bit with the lasers but if you get hit that will hurt.
I would personally prefer to not approach in this matchup until Mewtwo is at terrible high percents. Just shoot lasers while moving. Mix up your movement with b-reversal (surprise) laser to followup with a grab/shine, fade away lasers and wavebounce (fakeout) lasers where they think you will approach but you change your momentum.
You should only approach on a mistake by Mewtwo. You definitely win the projectile game because you can now JC the (used) reflector, not only the shine. You have to think about as your down-b as reflector and shine in most projectile matchups in PM anyways with that change. Quickly WD out and keep lasering.

The only approaches I would commit to are crossups (also only with dash jump momentum) but don't do them too often because sticking out a nair will stop it, it is some kind of guessing game here. If you have success with an approaching laser its also fine. Late aerials on shield are too much of a risk, the reward is kind of high but out of relation because one shieldgrab/up-smash OoS and you could be done...
Fade away aerials don't work either because Mewtwo has a good grab range and lots of tools where he can follow you even if you are far away enough to not get grabbed, then the hover aerials start destroying your shield or you get grabbed. Also the dashdance game at close distance is a bit risky because of Mewtwo's pressure and his range on his tilts, as well as teleport aerials etc.

Basically, stay at distance, win the projectile war, approach barely and then go for crossups or some laser -> grab setups.

 

[Zx2963]

I would use your secondary in this MU, no reason to get screwed

EDIT: You can shine grab?

 

[Nail.exe]

Jumping out of shine still goes through jumpsquat frames, so you can do anything out of shine that you can do out of jumpsquat, namely grab, wavedash, or if you were fast enough, up smash.

 

[Zx2963]

Jumping out of shine still goes through jumpsquat frames, so you can do anything out of shine that you can do out of jumpsquat, namely grab, wavedash, or if you were fast enough, up smash.

That's super useful

 

[Nail.exe]

One more thing: I just realized that Mewtwo's grab comes out at the exact same speed as Marth's (grab hitbox active on frames 7-8) so anything that works in shield pressure against Marth should work on shield pressure against Mewtwo.

For example, if a wellspaced dair into doubleshine prevents Marth from shield grabbing Falco, it'll do the same to Mewtwo (although it's possible that subtle spacing differences might be necessary, but that's way above my head).

The good news is that the Marth / Falco matchup has been meticulously studied in the past, as have shield pressure / frame advantage, things like that. So going and reading about the Falco / Marth matchup in the Melee forums will actually help your Project M matchup against Mewtwo.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

One more thing: I just realized that Mewtwo's grab comes out at the exact same speed as Marth's (grab hitbox active on frames 7-8) so anything that works in shield pressure against Marth should work on shield pressure against Mewtwo.

For example, if a wellspaced dair into doubleshine prevents Marth from shield grabbing Falco, it'll do the same to Mewtwo (although it's possible that subtle spacing differences might be necessary, but that's way above my head).

The good news is that the Marth / Falco matchup has been meticulously studied in the past, as have shield pressure / frame advantage, things like that. So going and reading about the Falco / Marth matchup in the Melee forums will actually help your Project M matchup against Mewtwo.

Not exactly because Mewtwo has a grab that slightly goes behind him so some crossups that you would do against Marth (because fade away aerials are suicide against that grab range) won't work against Mewtwo.
It always is that kind of guessing game: Late aerials can be hit out at the beginning but are safe on shield, early aerials are the counter to prophylactic attacks but aren't safe.
Also Mewtwo has a strong multihit up-smash OoS which should not be ignored.

 

[Zx2963]

I played a decent Mewtwo today, its more of a reading game then a ything