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Falco Should Be Faster
- Thread starter Hyral
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Ffamran
The Smooth Devil Mod
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2014
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- 14,629
This thread's locked because it could have been posted in the general discussion or the social. Link to the general discussion: http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-king-of-the-birds-game-play-discussion.367184/. Link to the social: http://smashboards.com/threads/falc...er-the-air-and-the-points-dont-matter.379756/.
Assault (2005) was released 4 years after Melee (2001), the first game to feature Falco, and 6 years after Fox was featured in Super Smash Bros. 64 (1999), so, Fox and Falco were "established" character designs which unfortunately for some like Falco, Ganondorf, Zelda, Toon Link, and more mean that they're kind of stuck as is with maybe major changes if it really needs to be done like how Bowser finally became the Bowser of today than the kind of a Godzilla reject in previous games and how Pit was updated to his Uprising look and personality or how Samus finally has her suit reflect a modern one, Other M's, rather than her Super Metroid suit used in three previous games. Personally, I wished she had her Prime suit in Brawl and had Prime's dashes for her dodges and her Morph Ball for her crawl, but that's another topic.
Then again, this would contradict Wolf's design in Brawl (2008) when Assault was released 3 years after it. If Fox, Falco, and Wolf reflected Assault's stats and if assuming health factored as weight, Fox would be a jack of all trades, Falco would be the current Fox, and Wolf would be broken as a heavyweight with high jumps and good speed, so basically Captain Falcon with a better jump. From a balancing aspect, we probably don't want a monster like Assault Wolf's stats ported over to Brawl Wolf with his already good air speed, attack speed, heavyweight standing, and strong attacks. Now, if Falco was faster than Fox, he'd be above Fox which would be like having a more fragile, slightly slower Captain Falcon with an amazing jump; Falco hits hard, hits faster than Captain Falcon, and would probably have a better gimp and spike game with that speed. A faster Falco would basically invalidate Fox. There'd be no real reason to use Fox if Falco was faster on foot and in the air, hits about the same speed, but stronger, has a stronger edgeguarding game, can spike, lives a bit longer, and jumps higher to boot.
Thing is that Smash doesn't always follow the other franchise's "canon" stats. Ike for example has a strong speed growth and high speed stat in Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance while Radiant Dawn was a bit lower. His other stats like HP, strength, etc., were also strong as well - he's the protagonist, so he has to be a good character. Even then, translated from FE to Smash, Ike should be swinging Ragnell and moving at about Marth's speed if not even faster. That range, power, and durability would have made Brawl Meta Knight look like a fair character. Speed is sort of an issue to define as well. Speed in FE could either be Ike moves quickly enough to hit multiple times or he attacks quickly. A thief's speed in FE could be considered either way too, but speed in FE is probably interpreted as how quickly someone attacks since "slow" classes like Knights can have high speed and hit multiple times despite moving slower and less spaces. Falco for one, attacks quickly, so there's one aspect of speed. Falco also moves vertically quickly through his jump height and fall speed and he walks quickly. Fox moves on the ground quickly and attacks quickly while Wolf attacks fairly quickly and moves quickly in the air, but not on the ground.
The reason for not following the other franchise is that there might not be anything to go off from like Captain Falcon, Fox, and Zelda from previous games. Well, we knew the Capt. and Fox were from futuristic settings and we know Zelda can use magic, but that's it. So, what do we do? Some things were made on the fly since those characters didn't see much combat on foot compared to Link or Ike who had some references from Fire Emblem.
Then there's also the whole issue with why does Falco run slower than Ike who's wearing armor and carrying a heavy sword? Those are the weird quirks. Not to rub any salt on wounds, but Falco's air speed was left untouched from Brawl while Fox's was buffed. Falco's dashing speed decreased from Melee and was slightly increased from Brawl while his falling speed basically became Wolf's from Brawl to Smash 4; Falco's falling speed in Melee was ridiculous and was even faster than Fox's current air speed, so a necessary nerf to prevent issues? Bair lost a front hitbox by being Wolf's Bair in animation, Dash Attack and Fair gained double the startup, grab became slower than Ganondorf's, and Dair's startup increased by about triple. The rest of his moveset pretty much stayed the same in terms of speed. A lot of Falco's changes and his transition are questionable such the hitbox issue with Falco Phantasm. This also extends to characters like Meta Knight who even after the 3DS patch, still has hitbox issues, especially with Ftilt. Game's not perfect and we have to deal with it, but thinking about it, the fact there's 53+ characters and nobody's getting owned like Brawl Ganondorf, that's a good achievement.
Assault (2005) was released 4 years after Melee (2001), the first game to feature Falco, and 6 years after Fox was featured in Super Smash Bros. 64 (1999), so, Fox and Falco were "established" character designs which unfortunately for some like Falco, Ganondorf, Zelda, Toon Link, and more mean that they're kind of stuck as is with maybe major changes if it really needs to be done like how Bowser finally became the Bowser of today than the kind of a Godzilla reject in previous games and how Pit was updated to his Uprising look and personality or how Samus finally has her suit reflect a modern one, Other M's, rather than her Super Metroid suit used in three previous games. Personally, I wished she had her Prime suit in Brawl and had Prime's dashes for her dodges and her Morph Ball for her crawl, but that's another topic.
Then again, this would contradict Wolf's design in Brawl (2008) when Assault was released 3 years after it. If Fox, Falco, and Wolf reflected Assault's stats and if assuming health factored as weight, Fox would be a jack of all trades, Falco would be the current Fox, and Wolf would be broken as a heavyweight with high jumps and good speed, so basically Captain Falcon with a better jump. From a balancing aspect, we probably don't want a monster like Assault Wolf's stats ported over to Brawl Wolf with his already good air speed, attack speed, heavyweight standing, and strong attacks. Now, if Falco was faster than Fox, he'd be above Fox which would be like having a more fragile, slightly slower Captain Falcon with an amazing jump; Falco hits hard, hits faster than Captain Falcon, and would probably have a better gimp and spike game with that speed. A faster Falco would basically invalidate Fox. There'd be no real reason to use Fox if Falco was faster on foot and in the air, hits about the same speed, but stronger, has a stronger edgeguarding game, can spike, lives a bit longer, and jumps higher to boot.
Thing is that Smash doesn't always follow the other franchise's "canon" stats. Ike for example has a strong speed growth and high speed stat in Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance while Radiant Dawn was a bit lower. His other stats like HP, strength, etc., were also strong as well - he's the protagonist, so he has to be a good character. Even then, translated from FE to Smash, Ike should be swinging Ragnell and moving at about Marth's speed if not even faster. That range, power, and durability would have made Brawl Meta Knight look like a fair character. Speed is sort of an issue to define as well. Speed in FE could either be Ike moves quickly enough to hit multiple times or he attacks quickly. A thief's speed in FE could be considered either way too, but speed in FE is probably interpreted as how quickly someone attacks since "slow" classes like Knights can have high speed and hit multiple times despite moving slower and less spaces. Falco for one, attacks quickly, so there's one aspect of speed. Falco also moves vertically quickly through his jump height and fall speed and he walks quickly. Fox moves on the ground quickly and attacks quickly while Wolf attacks fairly quickly and moves quickly in the air, but not on the ground.
The reason for not following the other franchise is that there might not be anything to go off from like Captain Falcon, Fox, and Zelda from previous games. Well, we knew the Capt. and Fox were from futuristic settings and we know Zelda can use magic, but that's it. So, what do we do? Some things were made on the fly since those characters didn't see much combat on foot compared to Link or Ike who had some references from Fire Emblem.
Then there's also the whole issue with why does Falco run slower than Ike who's wearing armor and carrying a heavy sword? Those are the weird quirks. Not to rub any salt on wounds, but Falco's air speed was left untouched from Brawl while Fox's was buffed. Falco's dashing speed decreased from Melee and was slightly increased from Brawl while his falling speed basically became Wolf's from Brawl to Smash 4; Falco's falling speed in Melee was ridiculous and was even faster than Fox's current air speed, so a necessary nerf to prevent issues? Bair lost a front hitbox by being Wolf's Bair in animation, Dash Attack and Fair gained double the startup, grab became slower than Ganondorf's, and Dair's startup increased by about triple. The rest of his moveset pretty much stayed the same in terms of speed. A lot of Falco's changes and his transition are questionable such the hitbox issue with Falco Phantasm. This also extends to characters like Meta Knight who even after the 3DS patch, still has hitbox issues, especially with Ftilt. Game's not perfect and we have to deal with it, but thinking about it, the fact there's 53+ characters and nobody's getting owned like Brawl Ganondorf, that's a good achievement.
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