Falco or Fox?

[shoops]

I think Falco is a much more rewarding character, and once you get your game going he can be a lot of fun. I also think Falco wins the Fox match up very comfortably, so there's that.

 

[Ffamran]

Hello and welcome to the Falco boards. While I do appreciate your thoughts, I think your post belongs more in the Falco Social thread. Link here: http://smashboards.com/threads/falc...er-the-air-and-the-points-dont-matter.379756/.

If you want to talk more on gameplay, then check out the Falco gameplay thread: Falco, King of the Birds: Game Play Discussion.

We also had a thread on this as well, but it's old: Falco or Fox?.

Check out the other threads, especially the stickied threads. I'll be locking this thread now since there's not much that it can do that the others can't.

 

[Kothorix]

Hello! I'm posting this here and a similar topic in the Fox board to try and get different people's opinions on it.

I was thinking about choosing Falco as my main, but after playing with him a bit I began to realize how slow he was and I couldn't really find easy ways to combo. So, I looked around for some videos on Falco, and the general competitive stance on him seems to be "Falco is just a worse Fox".

So, my question is this; what advantages does Falco have over Fox? I know the basic differences already; that's not what I'm asking about. I want to know what Falco's distinct advantages are. For example, Falco is generally slower and hits harder than fox, but while this is a 'difference', it's not necessarily an advantage for Falco because powerful hits don't really matter if you can't ever connect (e.g. nearly every heavy character).

 

[LozNerd]

1) Way better throw combos (d-throw dash attack fair, d-throw rar bair, up-throw up-air)

2) Ridiculous scaling Bair (can kill at 80% if sweetspotted)

3) Great edge-guarding set (fair, lasers, bair, nair, dair, phantasm.) Fox doesn't have much to edge-guard off-stage with.

4) Way better down-tilt (consistently combos into fair)

5) Highest jump in the game so he can go really high, really fast for up-air juggle.

This is all I can think of right now. Hope you join the Falco community!

 

[Kothorix]

I like Falco more than Fox, aesthetically. Yet, I feel like that isn't a very good reason to choose one over the other. If two characters are play similarly, but one is consistently rated as a higher tier, shouldn't you pick the higher rated character? I know that I shouldn't pick a character based on tier, but part of me doesn't want to risk being held back by it. So I guess I'm looking for reasons to pick Falco over Fox as my main.

 

[LozNerd]

I play Falco more than Fox though I play both. I just am better at Falco than Fox. I enjoy his edge-guarding and I don't think you will be held back that much by tiers. Falco is loads more fun in my opinion and I would choose him.

 

[Jaketto]

1) Way better throw combos (d-throw dash attack fair, d-throw rar bair, up-throw up-air)

2) Ridiculous scaling Bair (can kill at 80% if sweetspotted)

3) Great edge-guarding set (fair, lasers, bair, nair, dair, phantasm.) Fox doesn't have much to edge-guard off-stage with.

4) Way better down-tilt (consistently combos into fair)

5) Highest jump in the game so he can go really high, really fast for up-air juggle.

This is all I can think of right now. Hope you join the Falco community!

Pretty much all of this. It's a good to note that Falco also has two spikes: his dair and his side-b. To my knowledge Fox doesn't have a spike move (someone correct me on this if I'm wrong).

 

[Kothorix]

Yeah, I like the dair spike in theory, but I've never actually been able to pull it off in a real match.

 

[Jaketto]

Yeah, I like the dair spike in theory, but I've never actually been able to pull it off in a real match.

I recommend going into training mode and setting the bot to "jump" and the damage at about 80%. Every time the bot jumps, try to get a spike. That's how I learnt anyway.

 

[~Daniee]

Falco's reflector is better (if you can time it right)

D-air is a very strong spike

His recovery is better than Fox's (unless you lose your double jump)

He can strong F-air to F-air offstage to kill at super low percents

His B-air has less endlag, and combined with his jump he can recover after using it ( see here for an example of what I mean

)

His throw combos are also significantly more reliable

 

[BlazingRamen]

IMO, Falco isn't that close to Fox. They may have movesets that look the similar, and both may be lightweight fastfallers, but the way you play them is very different.

Fox plays pure rushdown, and tries to overwhelm his opponents with his speed.

Falco, on the other hand, has to play much more passively. He doesn't have many tools to approach opponents, and his slow speed makes it harder to do so. But he's quite solid at midrange footsies, and has a strong offstage game. (F-air is the best one) He can go in at times though.

 

[ShadowKing]

Lazers for sure and his new shine actually is a real useful spacing tool plus he has a spike.....two spikes to be exact

 

[Professor Pancake]

So in my opinion, Falco's biggest strength over Fox is his kickass edgeguard ability

With his obnoxious jump height and his lingering aerials, I find it relatively easy to get people off the stage and stay off the stage, with tools like:

Fair spike: If you catch someone with fair, and before the final hit, fastfall out of the combo, your opponent just falls. You should be careful to save your jump and not fall into the blastzone.

Dair: Most people have decided that this move sucks and as a result, nobody expects it. After experimenting with it for a while, I find it relatively easy to land and a decent edgeguard.

Downsmash at the ledge: You can catch a rosalina or a luigi or something trying to come back to the ledge with this, it happens so quickly that they usually can't tech it.

Sure, Fox probably beats falco on stage, but you can just edgeguard the **** out of them if you get them offstage

 

[ProtomanVX]

I'm looking at Falco to help with Matchups where Fox gets bodied for his fall speed. Is this a character I can pick up with a similar playstyle for certain matchups? Specifically, how does he handle against Mario and Mega Man? Thanks in advance!
EDIT: Here's some footage of my Falco thus far. https://www.twitch.tv/pdudesc/v/76125748

 

[Snipnigth]

Ill say pick Falco for fun and keep playing Fox, Falco dosent have much giong over fox just his jumps, everything else fox does better. Falco can also gimp better than fox since he get lots of air time since he jumps higher and falls slower, but doing this is very unsafe if you miss cause then they can punish falcos predictable recovery, the good thing is that both have a strong combo game, and good tilts, falco utilt and dtilt can even kill at the right % (dtitlt kills some characters at 150% if you hit them close to falcos body), but the bad thing for Falco is that he has little kill confirm combos and most of them are unsafe, like side b into upair or bair, or falling up air into bair, fox had many safe ways of confirming a kill, he can even 2 frame you with utilt when your about to grab the edge and follow it up with bair or upair true combo.

Forgot to add the thing that makes Fox so much better, he runs fast making it much easier to mixup your game and punish, falco runs slow and also his air speed is slow so there is not much pressure you can do, his lasers are there to force your opponent to approach you but you use them almost at full range to not get punished, they are almost useless, one of his best uses is shooting at you enemy when they trying to recover high, it forces them to recover low. Falcos game is based around baiting your opponent in attacking you so you make them wiff and punish that, shield and punish with your out of shield options, and use a lot of spacing with ftilt and dtitl, and stop enemies aerials with utilt

 

[Ffamran]

I'm looking at Falco to help with Matchups where Fox gets bodied for his fall speed. Is this a character I can pick up with a similar playstyle for certain matchups? Specifically, how does he handle against Mario and Mega Man? Thanks in advance!
EDIT: Here's some footage of my Falco thus far. https://www.twitch.tv/pdudesc/v/76125748

First thing, I merged yours and some others' threads because they were asking about the same thing. Seems to be a common question after all... To answer your questions, no, this is not a character you can pick up with a similar playstyle for certain MUs. If you're going for "another Fox", so a character who can get in, pressure, and move quickly, you're better off looking at Captain Falcon, Cloud, Mario, Meta Knight, Mewtwo, Ryu, Sheik, or Sonic. Out of those 8, only Mario, Mewtwo, and Sonic aren't fast fallers; Ryu edges into fast faller speed at 1.6, 0.1 above Mario and Mewtwo. Also, out of those 8, Meta Knight and Sonic are probably going to be the most different as their moves work differently for pressuring compared to Fox's more aggressive, low recovery; low startup moves. If you're a bit familiar with Street Fighter, Fox is more of a Ken, an aggressive, get in, pressure, and rushdown character. Falco on the other hand, seems to be more of a Guile, a defensive, bait, punish, and zoning character. He would be, if his Blaster was at least decent for zoning. Since it's not, it creates a problem where Falco's kind of a nobody who's compared to and outshone by everyone.

On Mario and Mega Man, the Falco boards do have MU discussions on them -- MU directory here: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-falco-matchup-thread-main-post.370767/ --, but they're dated and inactive at the moment. Last I remember those discussions and from other places, it started off optimistic and then spiraled downwards where Mario's got an advantage on Falco and Mega Man seems to be even at best. You're better off asking in the Falco discord as it would be more up to date and active. More info here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IzSwY6yBzOqGd3yaoqjj7ZJ18TsLDj65_VWMMMK_E1o/edit?pref=2&pli=1, and Falco Discord thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-discord-server.419282/.