Falco MU Discussion

[KingDozie]

Lets talk about the Mus for brawl characters or just charcters that improved

 

[pkblaze]

I play at a low level and I play against a limited cast of characters, but Zelda is the biggest problem I'd had among my friends. Lazer pressure means nothing to her Nayru's Love, and Din's Fire can be placed to cut off your approaches. Sure, you can trade a lazer to make her Din's fire placement off and whatever. Point is I can't see how Falco doesn't lose neutral against her. On top of that, her gimps are effortless and her Fair and Bair are basically long ranged Knees to knock Falco in the direction he sucks at recovering from.

From her perspective: She's light which makes it hard for you to combo her. She can cut off your options with din's fire and relieve both SHL and Nair pressure with her Neutral B. Her recovery is a teleport with no indication of destination if the Zelda player has no nametag, so recovery mixups are a cakewalk for her. Her downsides are a lack of constant mobility, but she has good burst mobility in her Up B and her Side B is probably one of the most flexible space control options in the game.

 

[KingDozie]

i will try to make a matchup guide for zelda.

 

[KingDozie]

Zelda

Zelda is a really defensive character but project m maybe her a little different giving her better option that they did in melee. You can approach zelda with lasers but you have to mix up your movement and lasers.(Ex. Dash Dancing,Dashing to zelda then wavedash back to punish her nayru's love, and just wavedashing back and forth to punish her ending lag moves) When you are lasers make sure you bait out her nayru love, then punish zelda. You can really combo her you can though juggle her, Just use Upthrow,Dair-Uptilt,Nair,Upair, and Dash attack. Do not use shine it will knock her too far for you to combo her unless you do a Shine to Upair or Upb which works well in small stages. PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU KEEP HER IN THE AIR SHE HAS FEWER OPTIONS UP THERE THEN ON THE GROUND. When se throw out her dins make sure you throw out your lasers to stop her from doing it. If the dins are already set just throw out a hitbox=ground move like jab or uptilt. To deal with the up b options maybe you can just throw out a CC(Make sure you cc first tho up b does not break it) Dsmash,shine, and Dtilt if she at kill % range when you know she teleporting to you. Make sure you don't get grab at like low% try to spot dodge a lot because if you're fighting a good zelda you will get Cg to death or combo to death. I don't know how to help you with the recovering just mix up dont do the same thing every time.For edgeguarding just grab the ledge so she can't sweetspot her up b so you can punish with a Ledge hop aerial or just Dsmash. LOL make sure the zelda player have a Name tag next time.

Add any of your opinion to this.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Zelda

Zelda is a really defensive character but project m maybe her a little different giving her better option that they did in melee. You can approach zelda with lasers but you have to mix up your movement and lasers.(Ex. Dash Dancing,Dashing to zelda then wavedash back to punish her nayru's love, and just wavedashing back and forth to punish her ending lag moves) When you are lasers make sure you bait out her nayru love, then punish zelda. You can really combo her you can though juggle her, Just use Upthrow,Dair-Uptilt,Nair,Upair, and Dash attack. Do not use shine it will knock her too far for you to combo her unless you do a Shine to Upair or Upb which works well in small stages. PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU KEEP HER IN THE AIR SHE HAS FEWER OPTIONS UP THERE THEN ON THE GROUND. When se throw out her dins make sure you throw out your lasers to stop her from doing it. If the dins are already set just throw out a hitbox=ground move like jab or uptilt. To deal with the up b options maybe you can just throw out a CC(Make sure you cc first tho up b does not break it) Dsmash,shine, and Dtilt if she at kill % range when you know she teleporting to you. Make sure you don't get grab at like low% try to spot dodge a lot because if you're fighting a good zelda you will get Cg to death or combo to death. I don't know how to help you with the recovering just mix up dont do the same thing every time.For edgeguarding just grab the ledge so she can't sweetspot her up b so you can punish with a Ledge hop aerial or just Dsmash. LOL make sure the zelda player have a Name tag next time.

Add any of your opinion to this.

This covers the Zelda MU really well, so all I have to add is:
Make sure that you constantly expect pain from her and still treat her with the respect she deserves. A lightning kick can end Falco's game and can be easily set up. Also expect her to change into Sheik to try to shake you.

 

[DMG]

Zelda v Falco is even, get used to it Falco playahs!

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Zelda v Falco is even, get used to it Falco playahs!

I'm making the first PM MU chart and I need your opinions on the Bowser Falco match-up. Lasers mean almost nothing to him, but Falco's combos work very well as well. But he can get Falco offstage and gimp him easily. Thoughts?

 

[KingDozie]

all bowser have to do is just CC his laser than throw out armor moves or just do ftilt if falco is approaching horziontally but for FJ Dair falco's just Uptilt/Upsmash to bait and punish. Side b grab alot trust me its useful if your playing a agrro faco. When falco is shield pressuring you just Up OOS lol and thats all i have.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

all bowser have to do is just CC his laser than throw out armor moves or just do ftilt if falco is approaching horziontally but for FJ Dair falco's just Uptilt/Upsmash to bait and punish. Side b grab alot trust me its useful if your playing a agrro faco. When falco is shield pressuring you just Up OOS lol and thats all i have.

So Falco would be at a disadvantage? I don't particularly agree with that because Bowser can be comboed to Corneria and back. I would say that Falco is at a slight disadvantage, but nothing major. He just needs to wait for Bowser to approach instead of approaching himself.

 

[KingDozie]

So Falco would be at a disadvantage? I don't particularly agree with that because Bowser can be comboed to Corneria and back. I would say that Falco is at a slight disadvantage, but nothing major. He just needs to wait for Bowser to approach instead of approaching himself.

I didnt say anything about disadavantages or not. Its basically in Falco favor(Advantage) depends on the room of the stage if its Wario GGS for falco if bowser plays smart. If its DL then your screw because of the lasers,Shine, and Dair LOL. I advise to be very aggro against Falco DONT GIVE FALCO ROOM.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

I didnt say anything about disadavantages or not. Its basically in Falco favor(Advantage) depends on the room of the stage if its Wario GGS for falco if bowser plays smart. If its DL then your screw because of the lasers,Shine, and Dair LOL. I advise to be very aggro against Falco DONT GIVE FALCO ROOM.

Thanks bro. *advantage to Falco*
See ya later!

 

[KingDozie]

Im having a hard time in the Falco vs Mk Mu

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

Im having a hard time in the Falco vs Mk Mu

DEHF has told me he dislikes the match-up, and opts to go Fox instead. I only see Falco winning this if the MK has little MU experience.

 

[KingDozie]

DEHF has told me he dislikes the match-up, and opts to go Fox instead. I only see Falco winning this if the MK has little MU experience.

I usually Shoot low lasers and combo the hell out of meta knight. Its not so hard edge guarding him as well. The problem with this match up is that falco lasers are use to control your opponent horizontal movement. Charcs like fox or falcon are faster than falco which can give them the advantage sometimes but Mk is just as fast as them and he is so small.

 

[foxygrandpa]

Bowser I think has a good matchup on falco. His crouch armor lets him not flinch from dair and lasers. Then fortressing at the edge is rough on falco.

 

[DEHF]

I usually Shoot low lasers and combo the hell out of meta knight. Its not so hard edge guarding him as well. The problem with this match up is that falco lasers are use to control your opponent horizontal movement. Charcs like fox or falcon are faster than falco which can give them the advantage sometimes but Mk is just as fast as them and he is so small.

That and MK has to do far less work to kill Falco. All he has to do is combo Falco offstage, then nair for an easy edge guard.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Bowser I think has a good matchup on falco. His crouch armor lets him not flinch from dair and lasers. Then fortressing at the edge is rough on falco.

No, you just lazercamp to force his approach with crouch then get a grab against him and pillar. That simple. Bowser's approach game is horrible, but his spacing is great. Make him approach you and you get a good combo, back off, reset.

 

[KingDozie]

No, you just lazercamp to force his approach with crouch then get a grab against him and pillar. That simple. Bowser's approach game is horrible, but his spacing is great. Make him approach you and you get a good combo, back off, reset.

It really depends which stage. If you pick yoshi story or warioware gg to falco because hes screwed. But generally falco wins because of lasers and combos on him. Its also really easy for bowser to kill and gimp falco.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

It really depends which stage. If you pick yoshi story or warioware gg to falco because hes screwed. But generally falco wins because of lasers and combos on him. Its also really easy for bowser to kill and gimp falco.

Yes the reason why Bowser wins on those stages because his spacing is now a viable approach option. As long as the Falco is careful and almost treats it like his Kirby MU, he'll be fine. He needs to always have an escape to get back to and reset.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

MK vs Falco... well, playing both characters, I would say Falco has the advantage on big stages and MK on small stages. MK can't really approach against lasers, but if he gets in, you are dead. Focus on eliminating his approaches, the only good one is a JC grab. Punish overextending aerials (like the infamous reckless jump in -> aerial). Don't get grabbed

 

[iLLuMinati_EYE]

im really struggling against mario my opponent seems to zone me out with fireballs and they do crazy amounts of damage his neutral air trades or beats my dair and nair help please thank you

 

[Zekk]

im really struggling against mario my opponent seems to zone me out with fireballs and they do crazy amounts of damage his neutral air trades or beats my dair and nair help please thank you

what you can do is when he keeps throwing out fireballs roll behind him then wavedash to him and grab up throw bair

 

[KingDozie]

im really struggling against mario my opponent seems to zone me out with fireballs and they do crazy amounts of damage his neutral air trades or beats my dair and nair help please thank you

Some guy name Fox128 mad this you can apply it to Mario too.
What I see many people do, is force combos, that aren't actually combos and so you will whiff or Doc will dodge/intercept. So a key against characters like this (higher weight/slow or mediocre falling speed) is to get a feeling for when they can break out of combos and bate their reaction (like a buffered double jump or a nair etc. after hitstun wears off).

Also Doc has a really good WD game and a very strong punish game against Falco, so you want to laser more and not approach in a predictable/punishable way (like always).
You will be able to get many grabs, but grabs won't actually do anything to Doc, so you want to go for something else instead (shine for example being better, without real disadvantages). Ofc you will still grab him a lot... if you happen to, I'd probably still go with uthrow (you can get him them if their DI is off or you can just enjoy your positional adventage after it), or dthrow to techchase/read most of the time.
Dair combos really well like always, and shine too: you can almost always still follow-up after it but you have to use higher doublejumps.

Pills can be destroyed by any aerial (or ground attack). So you don't have to sheild them always. And I'd actually recommend destroying them, because one tends to keep more momentum dealing with them this way.

On stages with low ceilings (escpecially YS), go for shine to shine-on-top kills, many people seem to forget about that one.

If played correctly, Falco can make Doc look pretty free...

 

[Darkshooter]

Seeing as I just got destroyed by both a D3 and Diddy Kong player, I must ask: How are the matchups against the two?

I went to Smash & Dash down in London.

 

[foxygrandpa]

Seeing as I just got destroyed by both a D3 and Diddy Kong player, I must ask: How are the matchups against the two?

I went to Smash & Dash down in London.

D3 is really easy to deal with onstage as long as you don't let him space properly. If you let yourself off the edge at all though, you're dead, no matter what. Stay center stage, I think its a pretty even matchup.
Diddy has a really strong neutral, but he gets combo'd like a fast faller. Just don't fall for his tricks, because he has an insane punish game against you. Falco can combo him pretty easily though. Also a pretty even matchup.

 

[Darkshooter]

D3 is really easy to deal with onstage as long as you don't let him space properly. If you let yourself off the edge at all though, you're dead, no matter what. Stay center stage, I think its a pretty even matchup.
Diddy has a really strong neutral, but he gets combo'd like a fast faller. Just don't fall for his tricks, because he has an insane punish game against you. Falco can combo him pretty easily though. Also a pretty even matchup.

So try and gain center stage as soon as the match begins?

 

[POOB]

I'm thinking about picking up falco as a secondary, and i main DK. I was wondering how you guys think falco does against ivy, zss, ness, and lucas (my worst DK matchups). If he does poorly against them i might not pick him up lol

 

[foxygrandpa]

So try and gain center stage as soon as the match begins?

well, falco does have the best neutral game in the cast so its not terribly difficult to do. Dont lose momentum, once you get pushed away, it'll be difficult to get back into his ranging.

 

[T-R3X]

well, falco does have the best neutral game in the cast

hmmmmm not sure I agree with that

I played against a not amazing Zelda a little while ago and baiting out Nayru's love is amazing.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

I seriously think Falco has the best neutral game if you take an average from all matchups. He has the superior neutral against anyone who hasn't some kind of reflect plus another neutral game tool or just something that beats lasers.

 

[T-R3X]

I seriously think Falco has the best neutral game if you take an average from all matchups. He has the superior neutral against anyone who hasn't some kind of reflect plus another neutral game tool or just something that beats lasers.

I think you're giving lasers too much credit - most characters can attack or move very quickly after being hit by a laser, for one thing (so lasering marth in the air isn't so effective because he can just fair right afterwards). Besides most characters have other ways to circumnavigate them, like dash attacking underneath or doing aerials above, etc. Falco's neutral is certainly very much bolstered by lasers but there's more to it than that.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Yeah plus perfect reflect shield too. There are options against it, but he forces to approach and beats other projectiles slower to set up. His neutral is by no means unbeatable but he normally has a little neutal advantage against anyone. Sounded a bit exaggerated on my part indeed.

 

[PartlyCloudy]

I'd like to open discussion on Wolf. I have a friend who I play with, and we tend to go pretty even (or maybe I win 60:40) except for this MU. I have tried on multiple occasions, trying to vary up what I do, but it comes down to that he can combo me or just get me off stage very easily. At that point, I am either in a position where recovery is impossible (due to the trajectory and/or Falco's atrocious Up-B) or Wolf out prioritizes or trades with my Up or Side-B. Is there something I can do, or should I just drop this and play Fox? -.- If nothing else, I'd like to know what I should be doing in the MU, or what to watch for that Wolf does.

p.s. Not hating of Fox. He's great, and I might have to play him more cause I'm pretty turned off of Falco due to his poor recovery.

 

[Zx2963]

I'd like to open discussion on Wolf. I have a friend who I play with, and we tend to go pretty even (or maybe I win 60:40) except for this MU. I have tried on multiple occasions, trying to vary up what I do, but it comes down to that he can combo me or just get me off stage very easily. At that point, I am either in a position where recovery is impossible (due to the trajectory and/or Falco's atrocious Up-B) or Wolf out prioritizes or trades with my Up or Side-B. Is there something I can do, or should I just drop this and play Fox? -.- If nothing else, I'd like to know what I should be doing in the MU, or what to watch for that Wolf does.

p.s. Not hating of Fox. He's great, and I might have to play him more cause I'm pretty turned off of Falco due to his poor recovery.

Wolf likes to rush you down, bog him down with lasers and pillar the heck out of him. Pretty much watch out for anything, Wolf can 0 to death you as easily as you can to him

 

[steelguttey]

hey guys! so the Olimar Matchup Thread is covering falco this week. love to hear your guys' input!