Scruffy_Scoundrel
Smash Apprentice
I am working on my invincible ledgedashes and I've noticed that performing them after up b ledgegrab seems much easier than doing regrab why is this?
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Falco Ledgedash Question(s)?
- Thread starter Scruffy_Scoundrel
- Start date
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
It's probably just something with how you work/think. I think that it's marginally easier to shinebair if my bair is to the left and if I run offstage before doing it. Mind you, that doesn't mean I don't have a fairly good shinebair rate on Fox at like 150% in either direction, but it's just how I think. Another little quirk is that I tend to prefer to be on the left side of the stage, but I work perfectly well from either one. Everybody's got their quirks.
It's probably related to differences in ECB.
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
I'm fairly sure that ledgedashing is like WDing... provided you make all the inputs on exactly the right frames, you get it. I don't see ECB really altering that.
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comics
Smash Cadet
Maybe because you feel like you have more time to prepare for doing it and you don't feel rushed for having to do it immediately and press the buttons too fast.
That is my guess. They are just as easy if you just time it when you see your character first grab the ledge. You really don't have to press buttons too frantic or at different timings.
Practice it at least 5 min a day I'd say on both sides of the ledge trying over and over.
Edit: I was wrong. I guess I do it at slightly different timings for different scenerios and didn't even know it. The fastest way and the slowest way has only a two frame difference though.
That is my guess. They are just as easy if you just time it when you see your character first grab the ledge. You really don't have to press buttons too frantic or at different timings.
Practice it at least 5 min a day I'd say on both sides of the ledge trying over and over.
Edit: I was wrong. I guess I do it at slightly different timings for different scenerios and didn't even know it. The fastest way and the slowest way has only a two frame difference though.
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FE_Hector
Smash Lord
Personally, I go by the sound of Falco grabbing the ledge because reaction time to audio cues is faster than to visual cues.
comics
Smash Cadet
Actually yeah I reccomend this way. That works too and is probably a better/faster way to learn it and works well and once you have the muscle memory you won't even need the sound.
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Doesn't the link in my post work, or did you just ignore it? ECB matters because it basically determines when you are above stage and can start the airdodge, and which airdodge angles will make you collide into the wall and stage.
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FE_Hector
Smash Lord
I saw it, but didn't click it. I know what the ECB is. My point is that the ledgedash timing and everything should be the exact same regardless of how you grab the ledge.
Kadano
Magical Express
It is not. You can choose to stay ignorant, but then you will never find out how it works. Or you can read up. ECB is defined in this short video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxthNFJtk64
After watching that, you should be able to make sense of the thread tauKhan linked.
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Well the linked thread contains more detailed explanation why you're wrong and ECB variations are a big factor when ledgedashing. By the way, for wding what you do before doesn't matter because the jump from ground always fixes the ECB shape.
Edit: I'm too slow lmao.
Edit: I'm too slow lmao.
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comics
Smash Cadet
Oh wow... Just read the thread and glad I did. Btw I'm a fan of your work and may buy a controller in the future (I have a new one though currently so after that). I stand happily corrected.
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Scruffy_Scoundrel
Smash Apprentice
Read/watched the ECB thread/video very interesting, seems like there's no reason not to intangible firestall before ledgedash every time no wonder squid's ledgedashes were so clean. Thanks for the info this will be of great assistance
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Kadano
Magical Express
With Falco, shine-firestall is better than pure firestall by the way, because Falco starts falling earlier (so you need to jump up for one frame with pure firestall to not be too low before disabled regrab period ends).
Just dropping and delaying the jump works too, but I think it’s easier to reliably get the same timing with the shine in-between.
Being lower at the last frames before grabbing the ledge also puts you in a safer position in case your drop was off a couple of frames. (Frame-perfect drops are really hard.)
Just dropping and delaying the jump works too, but I think it’s easier to reliably get the same timing with the shine in-between.
Being lower at the last frames before grabbing the ledge also puts you in a safer position in case your drop was off a couple of frames. (Frame-perfect drops are really hard.)
Scruffy_Scoundrel
Smash Apprentice
Thank you again, while I have you here is instant single laser from ledge truly intangible? I seem to retain my intangible frames until I hit the ground but I'm going by Falco flashing white since I don't have 20XX.
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Kadano
Magical Express
It’s a long time since I tested this, but iirc the first laser is easy to get out while still intangibly after even a very low ff-doublejump. I think the second one was just a couple of frames from coming out during intangibility too.
comics
Smash Cadet
But the shine up b is not invincible, right? Or am I timing it wrong? Because when I shine up b stall I get hit out of it by moves like Marth's dtilt. That's why personally I just try to ledgedash immediately when i can after hitting the ledge and don't bother with the stall beforehand.
Scruffy_Scoundrel
Smash Apprentice
The firestall itself should always be in invincible if you are quick enough, as for shine firestall it should be safe, Falco gets a lot of intangible frames from the ledge so you should have time, maybe try adjusting the angle you drop from the ledge with. I find the best angle to be between the S and SW notches of the gate but closer to the S
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It's intangible if you do it correctly. When you let go of off ledge, you won't be able to regrab the ledge for 29 frames. Because the upb can grab the ledge faster, you have some time to do other stuff before you start up b and can still regrab the ledge asap.
However you have to let go of off the ledge frame perfectly to stay intangible throughout the stall. This applies to both the up b and shine up b stall. In fact it's true for any stall that doesn't involve moves that have intangible frames normally such as sheik's up b.
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
Kadano
T
tauKhan
Like I said, I know what the ECB is and everything. I watched the video I was linked to, but I don't know what the difference looks like based on ECB between firebird stall -> ledgedash and something simpler like WD back -> ledgedash? Just from watching the video, I don't really understand why there would actually be a difference. Would one of you mind clearing this up?
Scruffy_Scoundrel
Smash Apprentice
It has something to do with where the game reads falco's location after the firestall. In the post tauKhan originally linked the middle column displays where falco's -1 ECB is, it's on a better trajectory with the stage therefore ledgedashes are easier/optimal if I understand how Environment Collision Boxes (ECB) work
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
Ohhh my bad. I didn't realize that the link was actually about ledgedash comparisons. Sorry