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Falco Critique if you could

Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
19,346
I believe the overall idea with any character for improving is to optimize your decision making, so you have the best outcomes possible. An example is at 0:15 after you hit falco with Fsmash you go directly into another fsmash. Those two chained together is not a very optimal decision. The reason is that after the first Fsmash Captain Falcon comes out of lag soon enough to be able to shield and could grab you or spot dodge or roll and get away. What would be the best option after that first fsmash hit? Depends upon your opponents response. If this was a human player you could try to short hop and space a dair on falcon's shield. This way it hits him if he does nothing, but you are safe if he tries to shield. Or a great option is simply wait and react to what they do. If you see them shield you can go directly into shield pressure such as aerial -> shine -> grab.

Continuing on to 0:16 after the second fsmash that you used. There is a time after hitting with an Fsmash that you can see falcon's trajectory as you are finishing the fsmash and gives a very good indication that Falcon will be forced into a tech situation. Either he slams into the ground or has to tech. Those sort of situations where you know a character will be forced into teching are optimal spots to just wait and react. If they tech you cover with something, if they roll you respond with something, or if they do nothing you do something else. In the case of this CPU falcon, imagine it was a human player who missed a tech. Imaginary moment <<Directly after the fsmash you just stand there waiting until you see falcon missed the tech right in front you, so you dash attack while he is still in lag. The dash attack set-ups nicely for your next option near the ledge where you can get him offstage with an aerial depending upon his DI.>>

Okay, moving onto after you missed the SH nair you were trying and falcon is getting up from a roll. Afterwards, you try shining when no where close to falcon. I take it you missed your l-cancel timing and wanted to try going directly into a shine and missed your jump from shine after that. So, my only advice here is really just practice to make sure you can do stuff that you want to do to avoid doing things you would not want to happen.

Alright, I will fastforward to 0:20 after you hit falcon offstage with an fsmash. I disagree with how one might handle that situation for those last 3 seconds if it was a human player, but I really just want to focus on optimizing your punishes. Anyway, you seem like you are trying to spam lasers until one hits and after the first one hits end up doing another one. Just time a laser until the first one hits. Any more lasers like what you did after the first one hit is not really necessary since you either disrupted their action or stole a jump. At 0:21, you wait which I believe is probably one of the better decisions after the first laser hit. You want to pay attention to your opponent and see how they respond. This falcon UpB'd right away. So, either through your vast experience of playing the game or doing a quick calculation in your head you should be able to recognize the possible trajectories Falcon can take and start to make decisions to cover those paths he can take. You chose to use SH Nair.

Okay, now at this point we basically repeat the situation we were at before, but Falcon at a higher percent at 0:22 with him offstage again. Hopefully, again you see that Falcon used UpB and you did the same quick analysis to figure out some ways to prevent him from coming back on again. Unfortunately, this time you ended up SH Nair prematurely. I would like to point out that a human player Falcon had the trajectories to either go on stage or pull back to the ledge. SO, your SH Nair in place would not have covered his pull back to the ledge. Walking forward a bit and doing nair or even Dair would have covered his pull back and him trying to get on stage.

Anyway, I think I have given you enough to work with at the moment to analyze the rest of the video and see what you might have tried doing differently. I imagine you posted this video because you do not have access to regular players to record with. If you are playing against CPUs I think the best thing you can do is figure out how to maximize your punishes. However, make sure you are maximizing your punishes realistically against how a human player might react. As an example, Falco dthrow -> dthrow -> dthrow on a fox CPU is an optimal strategy only for the CPU and not on human controlled fox players since there are ways to get out of that.
 

ZDEG

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
72
Location
Illinois
You're correct in terms of players. It's easy to find a COD player, but a melee player is a little more rare to find at least in terms of where I live.

I do appreciate the critique.

I'm very hesitant for reactions though. I like to put lots of pressure on my opponents and prevent the opponents brain with coming up with optimal solutions. Given this is a CPU, i don't have a pattern of behavior to work off of.

I do need to keep working on the shines though. It's such a weak spot in my playing. i haven't found a successful way to use them in situations when they could/should be used. I've watched shiz vid's but i'm not sure if more than half of his shine's are actually efficient or more for style.
 

Xx swift xX

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
164
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Approaching with random fsmashes is 100% a bad idea.

Work on getting more consistent lasers. It's more important to be able to get a laser out every time than to be able to only shoot low lasers. Also, work on your movement while lasering. Dash dance in between lasers. Mix in retreating lasers to see how your opponent chooses to approach.

Make sure to fast fall your aerials so you're able to follow up on them. I noticed a lot of your aerials weren't properly SHFFL'd, so try to work on that.

For now, the best chances to use your shine will probably come after connecting with a running nair or dair on a grounded opponent. Try working on this combo on a 0% fox: dair -> waveshine -> SH dair -> waveshine -> ... up til about 50%. Pillaring is the bread n' butter combo of Falco, so it's pretty important to learn.
 

ZDEG

Smash Cadet
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Jan 20, 2012
Messages
72
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Illinois
with wave shine, do you wave dash first or shine?

With the lasers, For each time i begin to approach do i want to laser so that i get the stun off?

Also, by lasering when is considered too much/ when should i begin to focus on the kill?
 

Twinkles

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
1,022
Location
SoCal
for a waveshine, the point is to wavedash out of your shine, so you shine first and then wavedash out

it's like two separate actions though, so try not think rigidly, like "you must always wavedash out of a shine". keep in mind that the reason waveshines work is because you can jump out of shine and try to just think more fluidly about what type of options you can do out of shine in order to combo someone. good way to learn how to do this is watch videos.

laser stun does not auto-lead to combos in every situation, the point though is that they keep other characters on the defensive and make it 100x easier to force reactions out of your opponent and pick holes in their defense to attack.

i suppose you'd be lasering too much if the opponent was consistently powershielding all your lasers. which is even easier if they know you're going to laser every time. the beauty of laser though is you can choose when to shoot, so it is always a good idea to mixup by not gunning all the time so that you can keep your opponent guessing when you're going to laser, when you're going to approach, etc.
 

ZDEG

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
72
Location
Illinois
Well I've worked on my jumping turn around lasers by quite a bit. They're pretty quick. Still a Phantasm from time to time but it's grinding itself out. Dash Dancing here and there is also being worked on.

As for the Waveshine, people find a situation to use this. I haven't really found a way to use waveshine effectively. It's not like fox's where it pushes the opponent to the side when you hit them, thus you can kind of bus your way through them to the edge when given the opportunity. So when is it appropriate to wave shine? Bc I would really like to be able to use it 0.o
 
Joined
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19,346
I do need to keep working on the shines though. It's such a weak spot in my playing. i haven't found a successful way to use them in situations when they could/should be used. I've watched shiz vid's but i'm not sure if more than half of his shine's are actually efficient or more for style.
This is another bit of what I meant by reacting. If you try to perform a SH Dair, you should be able to recognize you
1) hit something
a. hit a shield
b. hit the target without a shield
2) hit nothing.

I mean to react between your hits on your opponent. If you Dair peach and hits, which move to you use? Utilt or shine? Depends upon their knockback and DI and where you land in relation to Peach. If you auto-pilot a Dair -> shine, you will probably fine yourself hitting with Dair, then overshooting a character and missing with shine since its range is so small compared to say dash attack or Utilt. Sometimes a Dair will pop some so high up that shine afterwards would never hit.

Although, I suppose this is not as important for the time being. I think the advice I kept being told by people when I started out was to just grind tech skill and worry how to use it later.
 

ZDEG

Smash Cadet
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Messages
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That's kind of the approach I've been working on. Wave dashes are 50/50 some days, but it decreases when i battle a cpu. I'm not sure if it's a stress thing or putting it into action.

I'm starting to work on the in betweens. The most problem's i have are the initial damage %. Sometimes I don't have the spacing i'd like for lasers so when things are much closer I can't seem to either

A. Perform a SHFFL with enough knockback to get space.
B. Compile a Combo that'll get enough damage/stun to prevent them from hitting me from 0% to 40%
 

Varist

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
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i watch that whole set man you dont even grab

one thing you fight against cpu you never gonna learn and its how to **** with people sittin in there shield. u just walk up to that ***** and u fsmash him thats not gonna work u no what i would do if u tried to pull that **** on me? i would shield u and id shieldgrab. u try to dash attack me? id sheild u and id short hop oos into dair. then id combo the **** outta ur baby falco.

i got some tricks for u to learn and its called the falco dril practices. ur wavedashing cant be 50/50 u gotta drill that into ur head until its 95/5 consistency. u just cant be slippin on that basic stuff thats easy stuff ull get used to it dw.

In the meantime watch this video if u want to play falco u at least need to be able to do this stuff at a 90/10 or ull get ur **** messed up bad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb_B_2TEHBA

u need to be pillaring that falcon u dont need to fsmash. what r u even practicing? flicking ur c stick when hes near? u can do that the first time u pick up the controller if u want to improve u need to challenge urself. fsmash spam on computers is the easy way out u dont take the easy way u spar
 

Xx swift xX

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
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Location
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As for the Waveshine, people find a situation to use this. I haven't really found a way to use waveshine effectively. It's not like fox's where it pushes the opponent to the side when you hit them, thus you can kind of bus your way through them to the edge when given the opportunity. So when is it appropriate to wave shine? Bc I would really like to be able to use it 0.o
I'd say it's appropriate to wavedash out of almost every grounded shine. Just full/short-hopping out of your shines is all well and good when fighting computers who never DI, but humans will DI too far for you to follow-up a shine with a full/short-hopped aerial. The exception is when you're under a low platform. Oftentimes you can follow-up faster by DJ'ing or full-hopping out of the shine and wavelanding on the platform. I wouldn't concern yourself with shine -> wavelands until you're totally consistent with waveshining first, though. Stay on FD until you can consistently pillar fast-fallers from 0-50%.

I think the advice I kept being told by people when I started out was to just grind tech skill and worry how to use it later.
Pretty much this. If you don't have control of your character, you can't execute any high-level strategies or take advantage of patterns you see in your opponents. So your first focus needs to be movement and tech skill. Work on wavedashing, lasering, waveshining, wavelanding, and pillaring. Once you master those, you'll be in good shape.
 

ZDEG

Smash Cadet
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Jan 20, 2012
Messages
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Location
Illinois
i watch that whole set man you dont even grab

one thing you fight against cpu you never gonna learn and its how to **** with people sittin in there shield. u just walk up to that ***** and u fsmash him thats not gonna work u no what i would do if u tried to pull that **** on me? i would shield u and id shieldgrab. u try to dash attack me? id sheild u and id short hop oos into dair. then id combo the **** outta ur baby falco.

i got some tricks for u to learn and its called the falco dril practices. ur wavedashing cant be 50/50 u gotta drill that into ur head until its 95/5 consistency. u just cant be slippin on that basic stuff thats easy stuff ull get used to it dw.

In the meantime watch this video if u want to play falco u at least need to be able to do this stuff at a 90/10 or ull get ur **** messed up bad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb_B_2TEHBA

u need to be pillaring that falcon u dont need to fsmash. what r u even practicing? flicking ur c stick when hes near? u can do that the first time u pick up the controller if u want to improve u need to challenge urself. fsmash spam on computers is the easy way out u dont take the easy way u spar



#1) Human players are hard to come by, especially good ones. I don't have $ to buy plane tickets to half of these competitions. Just doesn't happen.

#2) Flicking C Stick around. Most people don't even know the stick even does anything when they first pick the controller up.

#3) The F Smashes happened that way, I don't always do it. It's not a consistent action of mine. Personally, I try and SHFFL when I can alas it didn't happen bc my mind decided that was the best option because against a CPU it is.

#4) Yeah i'm aware that the shield can easily break those options, alas we go back to point #1 again.

I do appreciate it being put bluntly but at the same time, we live in a day and age where people feel COD = God of games...

Unfortunately, I didn't decide that. If Nintendo/Sakurai would stop diminishing smash bros, and nintendo encourage competitive gaming, I'd have a hell of a lot easier time finding Human Players..

However Varist, I have worked a lot on grabbing. Normally I prefer jump cancelled grabs since they come out/end a bit faster reducing punishes. They're also great for dashing.

I've actually worked a lot on this since then. Turn around lasers/ Retreating lasers have improved a lot. Grab's and shielding is still a bit hard though considering I'm still dealing with a CPU.

Right now, I use a bowser on 0.5 damage ratio, that's constant crouch cancelled to work on wave shines, and the pillar motion. It's still sketchy as hell though.

In the end, I deal with what resources I have.
 

Varist

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
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#1) Human players are hard to come by, especially good ones. I don't have $ to buy plane tickets to half of these competitions. Just doesn't happen.

#2) Flicking C Stick around. Most people don't even know the stick even does anything when they first pick the controller up.

#3) The F Smashes happened that way, I don't always do it. It's not a consistent action of mine. Personally, I try and SHFFL when I can alas it didn't happen bc my mind decided that was the best option because against a CPU it is.

#4) Yeah i'm aware that the shield can easily break those options, alas we go back to point #1 again.

I do appreciate it being put bluntly but at the same time, we live in a day and age where people feel COD = God of games...

Unfortunately, I didn't decide that. If Nintendo/Sakurai would stop diminishing smash bros, and nintendo encourage competitive gaming, I'd have a hell of a lot easier time finding Human Players..

However Varist, I have worked a lot on grabbing. Normally I prefer jump cancelled grabs since they come out/end a bit faster reducing punishes. They're also great for dashing.

I've actually worked a lot on this since then. Turn around lasers/ Retreating lasers have improved a lot. Grab's and shielding is still a bit hard though considering I'm still dealing with a CPU.

Right now, I use a bowser on 0.5 damage ratio, that's constant crouch cancelled to work on wave shines, and the pillar motion. It's still sketchy as hell though.

In the end, I deal with what resources I have.

READ THIS
LOL idk what ur talking about with that cod stuff but ill tell u what sir

if u dont have anyone near u to play against, and u arent able to fly to tournaments, why are u even practicing? u gotta network with wherever u live and find some people or ur wasting ur time

Unfortunately, I didn't decide that. If Nintendo/Sakurai would stop diminishing smash bros, and nintendo encourage competitive gaming, I'd have a hell of a lot easier time finding Human Players..
LOL this is the funniest thing i ever have read... u think u cant find smash players because of sakurai al the way in JAPAN? u cant find smash players because U HAVE TOO MANY EXCUSES

u r a walking john if u think u cant find human players because of nintendo. wat r u a child? u think adults make excuses like that? if u want to play this game because u like it fine go play 1p mode theres a hell of a lot more content there for u to enjoy

but if ur playing vs matches and practicing advanced techniques then u obviously want to play against people. and ur gonna let sum ******** EXCUSE like "cod is popular and nintendo doesnt encourage this" stop u from PLAYING A ****ING MULTIPLAYER GAME WITH HUMANS LOL

maybe u didnt realize this, b ut its easy to come up with excuses for why doing something is hard. ur gonna live a ****ty life and not have many friends if u got an excuse to cover ur ass for everything. how about u just admit u wanna play against people and go try hard for once in ur life and find someone? walk door to ****ing door mate.

sorry to give u this dose of the red pill in ur own thread like this because i coulda just pmd u but honestly i read that quote and thats ridiculous LOL.

ill tell u one more thing since i have got this all figured out. u get 60, maybe 70, maybe even just until tomorrow, # of years in ur life. thats the only one u got. are u getting maximum enjoyment? are u living ur days how u want to live them?

NO BECAUSE IM SURE WHEN YOURE PRACTICING ALONE, u would rather be playing with SOMEONE ELSE. wouldnt u? does that remind u of something else u do? jack it at ur computer right? wouldnt u rather not be doin that alone? wudnt u rather be having sex instead of masturbating on ur gc controller?

if u want to **** u better step outside and get some. ***** aint gonna come knock on ur door and no1s just gonna come play melee with u. u go find someone or u quit this game right now. u could be doing funner things with ur time than making excuses why u cant seem to get to play melee with anyone
 

Varist

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
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Austin
also LOL U WORK WITH THE RESOURCES U HAVE? thats an under the rock ass excuse if i ever heard one

YOU GET MORE RESOURCES

"I MAKE DUE WITH WHAT I HAVE" IS A LITTLE ***** MIND TELLING U THINGS TO KEEP U QUIET AND OUT OF SIGHT

U GET MORE u live in america dont u? wheres the drive for bettering ur circumstances? thats the whole point of life is u START FROM THE BOTTOM AS A LITTLE BABY SMASHER

and u grow into where u wanna be. ur not even trying to grow ur just stalling.

ur #1 first task on this boards isnt to ask for help on how to get better ur #1 mission is to FIND SOMEONE WHO LIVES NEAR YOU. GO SEARCH THE USERS. GO ON THE AREA FORUMS. SPAM THEM WITH POSTS and take off ur ****ing ILLINOIS i dont know where the **** that is put ur town next to it.
 

ZDEG

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
72
Location
Illinois
^

Perfect example of a Troll

Also Illinois is a state. In the United States, it's part of a big continent. I'm sure you'll find it soon.
 

ZDEG

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
72
Location
Illinois
READ THIS
LOL idk what ur talking about with that cod stuff but ill tell u what sir

if u dont have anyone near u to play against, and u arent able to fly to tournaments, why are u even practicing? u gotta network with wherever u live and find some people or ur wasting ur time



LOL this is the funniest thing i ever have read... u think u cant find smash players because of sakurai al the way in JAPAN? u cant find smash players because U HAVE TOO MANY EXCUSES

u r a walking john if u think u cant find human players because of nintendo. wat r u a child? u think adults make excuses like that? if u want to play this game because u like it fine go play 1p mode theres a hell of a lot more content there for u to enjoy

but if ur playing vs matches and practicing advanced techniques then u obviously want to play against people. and ur gonna let sum ******** EXCUSE like "cod is popular and nintendo doesnt encourage this" stop u from PLAYING A ****ING MULTIPLAYER GAME WITH HUMANS LOL

maybe u didnt realize this, b ut its easy to come up with excuses for why doing something is hard. ur gonna live a ****ty life and not have many friends if u got an excuse to cover ur *** for everything. how about u just admit u wanna play against people and go try hard for once in ur life and find someone? walk door to ****ing door mate.

sorry to give u this dose of the red pill in ur own thread like this because i coulda just pmd u but honestly i read that quote and thats ridiculous LOL.

ill tell u one more thing since i have got this all figured out. u get 60, maybe 70, maybe even just until tomorrow, # of years in ur life. thats the only one u got. are u getting maximum enjoyment? are u living ur days how u want to live them?

NO BECAUSE IM SURE WHEN YOURE PRACTICING ALONE, u would rather be playing with SOMEONE ELSE. wouldnt u? does that remind u of something else u do? jack it at ur computer right? wouldnt u rather not be doin that alone? wudnt u rather be having sex instead of masturbating on ur gc controller?

if u want to **** u better step outside and get some. ***** aint gonna come knock on ur door and no1s just gonna come play melee with u. u go find someone or u quit this game right now. u could be doing funner things with ur time than making excuses why u cant seem to get to play melee with anyone

I'm not a child, but thanks anyways. If you don't want to look at this thread, and my "Awful," excuses there are plenty of others to troll through.

And Melee is not as popular of a game. If you lived in Illinois you would know. However, you do not. So your thoughts and opinions are horribly invalid. Nor do I honestly care. The fact that I'm dealing with a troll is enough attention from me as it is.

I don't live a ****ty life, I make friends wherever I go, going to college, and making something of myself. So once again, you still know nothing. Which is a problem for you, so before talking as if you know me you should really get your facts straight. There's nothing honestly ridiculous about any of my deemed excuses. People play 360 or PS3 more than they do melee/gamecube/wii. It's a fact of life around here, however I still enjoy playing the game regardless.

Here's where you really sound foolish,

"NO BECAUSE IM SURE WHEN YOURE PRACTICING ALONE, u would rather be playing with SOMEONE ELSE. wouldnt u? does that remind u of something else u do? jack it at ur computer right? wouldnt u rather not be doin that alone? wudnt u rather be having sex instead of masturbating on ur gc controller?"

I'm not even going to bother touching upon that, because once again I can already tell where your immaturity level lies, or your logic and reasoning.

As for Americans, or people that live in Illinois, or really anywhere. We don't go door to door asking for people to play melee. I don't know exactly what you were thinking when you typed this, but I may have to suggest you see a therapist, or doctor. I feel you may have slight autism or form of *********** because you threw this way out of proportion.

As for whatever else you said.. I could care less. I've wasted enough time on you. I sincerely hope you see that doctor though, because the way you react to things I can already tell not too many care about you. Then again, nobody really does with trolls.
 

Xx swift xX

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
164
Location
Las Vegas, NV
ZDEG, I'd suggest you listen to his advice about finding other people. His wording is definitely less than ideal, but his reasoning is sound. Why do you want to improve if you have no one to play against? I know there are a decent amount of smashers in Chicago, so he's not wrong in asking you to add your town. There's probably a Chicago Facebook group, too. Your college no doubt has some sort of smash scene, too.

Don't bother practicing the .5 handicap bowser stuff with falco; his shield pressure is too weak. Learn pillaring on lvl 1-4 foxes on FD. When we say pillaring, we mean shine dair combos, btw.
 

ZDEG

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
72
Location
Illinois
Yes, I'm aware of his point. As a matter of fact my college does have a scene so that'll help. If he hadn't decided to go down the path he did I would've gladly mentioned it. There was no reasoning to put it in that manner, aside from misguided aggression. Issues with money have been the main concern for a couple years now so that's why I haven't really tried to pursue too many human players, competitions, etc. College, family, job, girlfriends, etc. kind of take most of my time. So I try to play this when I can. It's always had that nostalgic effect on me, so the game always keeps it's high value.

It's not that I'm giving excuses, it's the fact that a lot has happened in the past several years so when I said I do with what I have, I legitimately try and get the most of what I can from practicing tech stuff. No, it doesn't make up for a human player but when financials are a big issue, it is what it is. So, one could ask why bother? Eh, because I can? I enjoy the game a lot, and if the time comes where I can pursue a lot of the stuff that goes on with melee I definitely will.

Anyways, when I mentioned the bowser I meant to put that I have a 2nd controller plugged in, and set it up that he crouch cancels everything so I can consecutively waveshine back and forth across the stage. The .5 damage ratio is to reduce the knockback effect so I can keep practicing with less disturbances. It's helped a reasonable amount.
 

Rocketpowerchill

Smash Ace
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Dec 7, 2012
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568
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Jarretsville md
i was the same way about going to my first local tournament 6months ago due to the fact that i wud know noone and everyone there wud have been well aquainted with the scene for years now and theyre all like family lol
so theres definitely a different feeling there but theres no need to freak out cuz regardless of arrogant posts and **** you or people make towards this ****ing thread, you'll in the end find yourself at a tournament soon

so why not just show up to a local next week and join your fb group
melee scene is so ideal for all newcomers now since you can find people willing to play you 10 min from your house
def something you shudnt take for granted
 

ZDEG

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
72
Location
Illinois
So glad someone has a pleasant peace of mind. I appreciate it greatly. I can't wait though, my gf knows the head of the club so there shouldn't be too many issues fitting in. I mean smashers can blend in with any smash group I feel. It's about the love of the game right?
 

Varist

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
1,603
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Austin
I think autistic was the most ironic word he could have used.

Some just can't be saved. Enjoy your obscurity and lifelong dissatisfaction. You're a woman of a man.
 

Xx swift xX

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
164
Location
Las Vegas, NV
It does show some improvement.

First of all, practicing on Great Bay is probably not the best idea; you'll never see that stage in a tournament.
Definitely start working on wavedashing out of your shines so you can follow them up with aerials.
Learn to space your approaching dairs/nairs so you land close enough to shine immediately after landing lag.
It looks like you're missing L-cancels on your aerials, so work on that.
Not sure why you keep full-hopping everywhere, but whatever is causing that needs to be fixed. Empty full hops are going to make you have a really bad day in tourney.
You should practice working in laser mixups to your neutral game. If you just immediately go in all the time, it's not going to work out for you. Keep them guessing when you're going to hop in with an aerial. This is actually one of the reasons not to practice on a CPU above lvl 4: they powershield too much. Powershielding CPUs condition you not to laser in the neutral game, which is a bad thing.



Watch this video of Shiz vs PP for some ideas of some shine techniques to practice. Note their uses of waveshining, shine OoS, and aerials followed up with shines.
Especially pay attention to the combo Shiz gets right at the beginning of the match.
 

ZDEG

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
72
Location
Illinois
It does show some improvement.

First of all, practicing on Great Bay is probably not the best idea; you'll never see that stage in a tournament.
Definitely start working on wavedashing out of your shines so you can follow them up with aerials.
Learn to space your approaching dairs/nairs so you land close enough to shine immediately after landing lag.
It looks like you're missing L-cancels on your aerials, so work on that.
Not sure why you keep full-hopping everywhere, but whatever is causing that needs to be fixed. Empty full hops are going to make you have a really bad day in tourney.
You should practice working in laser mixups to your neutral game. If you just immediately go in all the time, it's not going to work out for you. Keep them guessing when you're going to hop in with an aerial. This is actually one of the reasons not to practice on a CPU above lvl 4: they powershield too much. Powershielding CPUs condition you not to laser in the neutral game, which is a bad thing.



Watch this video of Shiz vs PP for some ideas of some shine techniques to practice. Note their uses of waveshining, shine OoS, and aerials followed up with shines.
Especially pay attention to the combo Shiz gets right at the beginning of the match.

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The random high jumps are failed wave dashes. I try to implement them into every match so I can get better at doing them on command, if I mess up... welllll there's more reason to keep practicing even though I would regardless.

However, I have wondered one thing. When I practice and I do get a successful SHFFL'd Dair/Nair, my enemy usually ends up having knockback that is large enough to fly away before I can shine. Am I landing my Dair's/Nairs in the wrong spots?
 

Xx swift xX

Smash Apprentice
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However, I have wondered one thing. When I practice and I do get a successful SHFFL'd Dair/Nair, my enemy usually ends up having knockback that is large enough to fly away before I can shine. Am I landing my Dair's/Nairs in the wrong spots?
Grounded Dair -> Shine only works up to ~50% on fox and falcon. Up until 50%, it should be putting them in a grounded flipping animation, essentially stunning them. After that, it starts popping them up, so it gets a lot less consistent. At that point, it's often better to follow up with an uptilt or a nair chain to push them off stage. Try to end your combo with them off stage, since falco can edgeguard fox/falcon pretty easily.

EDIT: That video I posted before was supposed to be queued up to their match on FD. Watch the FD match, not so much the FoD match.
 
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