Falco Chain Grab on Fox (NTSC Only)

[FM360]

I have been playing around with Falco recently and (this may have been discovered already) I found out that he has a chain grab in Melee. But, this chain grab only works on Fox and Pichu. Here is a video of the chain grab being used against Fox.

Here is another video explaining more about this chain grab.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

Its not a Chain Grab.
1. Its a CPU
2.Vs. a real person Fox could Shine before Falco gets another Grab

But it's good for mixing up throws (Watch Zhu vs a Fox)

 

[AirFair]

How are you watching on the wii u pad? sorry if it sounds dumb

 

[FM360]

How are you watching on the wii u pad? sorry if it sounds dumb

I'm playing this off an external hard drive and playing it on my wiiu

 

[sadistic]

I'm pretty sure Falco has no true chain grabs, but he certainly has some throw > regrabs if your opponent DI's improperly. I would suggest downloading the 20xx hack pack, because the CPU's will DI randomly, making it easier to test whether something is a true combo or true chain grab.

-Down throw > regrab should really never be used because, as Professor Flash said, the fox could shine before falco get's another grab. Down throw > shine is a pretty good mixup if the fox DI's poorly.

-Back throw > regrab is a pretty great mixup, but again, it relies on them DI'ing poorly.

 

[FM360]

I'm pretty sure Falco has no true chain grabs, but he certainly has some throw > regrabs if your opponent DI's improperly. I would suggest downloading the 20xx hack pack, because the CPU's will DI randomly, making it easier to test whether something is a true combo or true chain grab.

-Down throw > regrab should really never be used because, as Professor Flash said, the fox could shine before falco get's another grab. Down throw > shine is a pretty good mixup if the fox DI's poorly.

-Back throw > regrab is a pretty great mixup, but again, it relies on them DI'ing poorly.

Ok I'm going to get the 20xx training pack so I can test this out a bit more. I will confirm if this is a true chain grab once I figure everything out.

 

[Teran]

Ok I'm going to get the 20xx training pack so I can test this out a bit more. I will confirm if this is a true chain grab once I figure everything out.

It's not

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

It's not

Thank you lol

 

[trilok]

I'm pretty sure Falco has no true chain grabs, but he certainly has some throw > regrabs if your opponent DI's improperly. I would suggest downloading the 20xx hack pack, because the CPU's will DI randomly, making it easier to test whether something is a true combo or true chain grab.

-Down throw > regrab should really never be used because, as Professor Flash said, the fox could shine before falco get's another grab. Down throw > shine is a pretty good mixup if the fox DI's poorly.

-Back throw > regrab is a pretty great mixup, but again, it relies on them DI'ing poorly.

at low percents:
if they di down to shine, your shine comes 6 frames faster.
if they di away, you can regrab.
Frame data about this was discussed a few weeks ago somewhere by kadano/bones

 

[sadistic]

at low percents:
if they di down to shine, your shine comes 6 frames faster.
if they di away, you can regrab.
Frame data about this was discussed a few weeks ago somewhere by kadano/bones

I appreciate the response, but could you add a little context?

If fox DI's down after a down throw, your shine comes out 6 frames faster?

 

[Stalled]

are we in an alternate universe where you can't tech dthrow?

 

[trilok]

I appreciate the response, but could you add a little context?

If fox DI's down after a down throw, your shine comes out 6 frames faster?

yes at low percents, if fox asdi's down and tries to shine, you will shine first because you get to act 6 frames sooner than fox gets to act.

 

[Jackson]

are we in an alternate universe where you can't tech dthrow?

Fox cannot tech Falco's Dthrow, I believe. I think he is the only case of this in the game.

 

[-Dubs]

It's easily DI'd out of. Up-throw is the go-to for follow-ups, but mix up throws often.

 

[Teran]

Fox cannot tech Falco's Dthrow, I believe. I think he is the only case of this in the game.

He can, it's a poorly worded factoid. The key is he can't tech roll away, only tech in place.

This is fixed in PAL, if it's of any relevance

 

[Jackson]

He can, it's a poorly worded factoid. The key is he can't tech roll away, only tech in place.

This is fixed in PAL, if it's of any relevance

Ah, thank you for clearing that up. If anything, it has a similar effect to him just landing on the ground.

 

[FM360]

So to sum it all up, this isn't a true chaingrab

 

[Jackson]

So to sum it all up, this isn't a true chaingrab (I guess).

Yes, but you may easily sneak it in ocassionally to get a free regrab, just dont spam it.

 

[Dr3amSm4sher]

This is not real. From 0-12% dthrow into shine is real on all DI that isn't away. On away DI though you can regrab if they do not perfect buffer spot dodge or shine. DI/SDI away and then asdi down to shine to stop falco from comboing you.

After 12% fox can just hold down and shine you before you can shine him.

 

[J⩓мє]

This is not real. From 0-12% dthrow into shine is real on all DI that isn't away. On away DI though you can regrab if they do not perfect buffer spot dodge or shine. DI/SDI away and then asdi down to shine to stop falco from comboing you.

After 12% fox can just hold down and shine you before you can shine him.

you can just pummel once dthrow regrab pummel backthrow regrab pummel upthrow it's pretty sick since if they're trying to escape a second dthrow regrab they get di trapped into the regrab, pummeling ****s with their ability to focus since no one does it, gives you free %. You can also hard read DI out and dash jc grab (same timing as shinegrab if you're worried about the timing being possible) before they can act too.

But you could also space a dair and get 12% for free and not play some overly thought-crafted semi-optimized read-based grab game, and just use your grabs for gaining stage control which would set up for more dairs and potentially a stock.

are we in an alternate universe where you can't tech dthrow?

Fox's stats for weight and fall speed are somehow perfectly balanced in NTSC to make Falco's dthrow untechable by Fox specifically (people say he touches the ground while in the grabbed state and bounces up from a laser impact), but he can shine you out of it and most foxes know to do so. If you're playing against a new fox and you dthrow and see a shield pop up, they either forgot about the shine at that moment or don't know, at which point I personally would keep dthrow regrabbing them forever until they shine you or escape out of desperation, then move onto something else. As other people have said, in PAL his stats are changed so dthrow regrab is no longer possible.

The 20XX 4.05 cpu doesn't know how to deal with this though, since it DIs in a random direction, so you can just dthrow chaingrab 20XX cpu fox until it eventually (fully randomly) waveshines you into a 0-death or otherwise breaks out by DIing behind you or out too far at higher percents.

 

[C-SAF]

We need a pinned post telling everyone that falco's derpy regrabs arent chaingrabs lol. I feel like a thread like this gets made waaaay too much.

Not to fault the people who find it (the regrabs arent talked about much) but something as big as a chaingrab on fox would have been found years ago.

 

[poxX]

Is shine ever guaranteed on fox with up throw without sdi and near perfect reaction time?

 

[C-SAF]

Is shine ever guaranteed on fox with up throw without sdi and near perfect reaction time?

The sdi on falcos up throw is very easy to get, it can also be di'd aswell after the lasers. Moving the stick at all can get either one, even if the person has no clue what they are doing. So nothing is guaranteed on upthrow.

If the fox does literally nothing then u can get the shine follow up, but if ur counting on no di or sdi then that isn't really guaranteed.

 

[poxX]

Ok thanks, I was just really wanting to have some more information on what can be done with upthrow, I believe that worst case scenario the falco still has an advantageous state; however, what can be done to continue pressure/combo I am still not sure.

 

[C-SAF]

Ok thanks, I was just really wanting to have some more information on what can be done with upthrow, I believe that worst case scenario the falco still has an advantageous state; however, what can be done to continue pressure/combo I am still not sure.

Tbh it'd be pretty broken if falco had guaranteed stuff off his throw into shine. His lasers let him get more grabs than other characters and his shine is an amazing launcher by itself.

The best way to get followups is to mix upthrow with fwd and back throw. Most people will DI anythrow away from a ledge. U can use this to link hard DI in on back throw into fthrow on spacies, or get back throw dair on floaties like peach. If u only ever upthrow, good players can DI in a way that u get no followups ever. The only way to stop them is to use the other throws.

 

[poxX]

From what I've noticed, at certain percents against fox if the fox hard di's left or right to not get hit by lasers then RAR AC bair can almost force a double jump in which, on stages like FD can be great for a falco. If the fox does get hit by the lasers then shine becomes a true combo (using 20xx hack pack combo counter). It requires pretty fast reaction times but I have been getting it ~80% of the time. It's very strange because at about 30 to 50 it works then again at about 70 to 80, sometimes the shine can even be gotten without the lasers hitting. I'm not sure if I am testing incorrectly or there are some magic percents.

 

[Dr3amSm4sher]

you can just pummel once dthrow regrab pummel backthrow regrab pummel upthrow it's pretty sick since if they're trying to escape a second dthrow regrab they get di trapped into the regrab, pummeling ****s with their ability to focus since no one does it, gives you free %. You can also hard read DI out and dash jc grab (same timing as shinegrab if you're worried about the timing being possible) before they act

You can SDI dthrow on reaction. The throw isn't that fast and you just have to SDI the last laser. You can get people with it but when people get better it's not gonna work.

 

[ThunderCat]

Iirc Falco has no guaranteed followups on any of his grabs

 

[W_is_for_Wumbo]

while this isn't a proper chain grab, mixing up dthrow with back throw can net you a lot of percent on fox early on in stocks.

http://gfycat.com/KnobbyHighlevelAfricanmolesnake

on pokemon stadium against the tree on the fire transformation, falcos dthrow actually can chain grab fox if he techs towards the tree or in place though. i think zhu did it at summit

 

[Dr3amSm4sher]

Iirc Falco has no guaranteed followups on any of his grabs

He does in PAL for his uthrow on spacies. You can no longer Di it behind him so he can cover many more Di angles with less effort

 

[alpha_leonis]

dear lord, this thread again.