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Falco adviced welcomed

Brookman

Smash Hero
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Oct 20, 2005
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pikachu
Hey webb, where are you from again?? I think (if you're reasonably close to hartford, we could get some games in)


I'll check these matches out tomorrow.
 

Brookman

Smash Hero
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its tough to say. It looks like you just are overly aggressive. At this point, the best recommendation i have is to watch some jman vs falco and then any other high-level fox vs. falco. On top of that, play more falcos and definitely hunt down some starz (or starzonedge) and check his fox style out.


in the match on battlefield (and probably the others to) I don't see you throwing lasers at all.
 

Brookman

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Why don't you tell me how you feel about the match up in general and we can get some sort of illuminating discussion going. Like, what do you feel like your biggest problems are and what do you think the falco players are doing that makes the match so challenging. Is it every falco player that you have trouble against or just a few players?

I dont think I can stress enough that, even against falco, lasers are bread and butter for mix ups. ESPECIALLY if you have a stock lead.
 

PK Webb

Smash Champion
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Dec 24, 2007
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Why don't you tell me how you feel about the match up in general and we can get some sort of illuminating discussion going. Like, what do you feel like your biggest problems are and what do you think the falco players are doing that makes the match so challenging. Is it every falco player that you have trouble against or just a few players?

I dont think I can stress enough that, even against falco, lasers are bread and butter for mix ups. ESPECIALLY if you have a stock lead.
Not every falco just veteran falcos and falcos that spam lasers for everything. If u cud explain how lasers will help. What I feel gets me killed is knockin them down and they spotdodge my grab and shine so I'm tryna mix that up but either runnin in and wavedashin down and baiting the spot dodge then nair because if I grab the shine gets me. Sumtimes I charge a usmash but that's a lot of commitment. And I don't no when falco r vulnerable.
 

Brookman

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You generally have a solid play style but I think you lose to bad decisions and technical errors, mostly. You're not strictly being out played in these matches I really feel like it comes down to your knowledge.

check out mangos fox vs. zhu (or mangos fox vs. anyone really)
 

unknown522

Some guy
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
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At ROM 3, Jman told me: "You have to camp falco with your movement. It's the only thing he doesn't outclass you with in the matchup". I'm still not great at the matchup, but I think it helped me.

Also, you have to make sure that you deal as much damage as possible for every hit you get, or make sure to gimp/edgeguard him. Try as hard as you can not to let him get up, unless you are knocking him off the stage.

Anyways, that's all I can say without actually watching the matches. I'm gonna watch them now.
 

(*Jman*)

Smash Champion
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At ROM 3, Jman told me: "You have to camp falco with your movement. It's the only thing he doesn't outclass you with in the matchup". I'm still not great at the matchup, but I think it helped me.

Also, you have to make sure that you deal as much damage as possible for every hit you get, or make sure to gimp/edgeguard him. Try as hard as you can not to let him get up, unless you are knocking him off the stage.

Anyways, that's all I can say without actually watching the matches. I'm gonna watch them now.
serious i told him this cause i mean it

this is so true

when u get falco off the stage u have to kill him thats how it goes

cause the falco has a better combo set then fox in the match up
 

Fried Ice Cream

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I couldn't watch the videos because the textures make it unbearable. Which is why I hate most Brawl videos.

EDITEDIT: Aaah, never mind I don't know enough about the game to be giving advice lol. It'll probably make you worse.
 

PK Webb

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I couldn't watch the videos because the textures make it unbearable. Which is why I hate most Brawl videos.

EDITEDIT: Aaah, never mind I don't know enough about the game to be giving advice lol. It'll probably make you worse.
after 10 years i got tired of the same costumes so yea
 

Fried Ice Cream

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EDIT: Juuust kidding, I'm watching the 2nd video at the moment. What I can see right off the bat is that you just run into him without a real plan. The Falco is retreating and you're dash attacking.
Dash attack is an okay attack... If your opponent is on the ground or teching while you do it, but when he's just standing there, shielding to punish you... Also, you did it at low %. Even if dash attack hits at that %, you're gonna get shined for it!

Then you die, too bad, once you get shined there's nothing you can do but DI a lot.
After you die you capitalize on a missed wavedash which leads into a grab. Great! But you ruined the grab. Why usmash immedeatly after the throw? You could have gone for at least u-tilt > u-air or grabs. Usmash just blueballed it :\.

You should be constantly moving, even if you're not near Falco, even if he's not shooting lasers. Just standing with your back facing towards him isn't going to lure him into coming closer either.
That shine out of shield you did there was really good.

Nice finish on his first stock, that's the sort of grabs you want.
Right after he comes back, you got lured into using your second jab. You were hesitant about which side you were going to. You could've gone jump on the platform or hang on the ledge. Your best bet was going towards the ledge because he had below you and the platform covered. You could've also dropped through the platform and B-air him, but maybe he'd not have continued up-airing if you went somewhere else. Ah well.

Now just before you got killed, he was charging the usmash, and you got greedy. You wanted to land and go for a grab, but he let go. You should've dropped a N-air on him. An even better option would be wavedashing onto the stage from the ledge, but I can never pull it off perfectly so I don't blame you lol.

Then at 2:10... WHY DID YOU LET HIM RECOVER. You could've just walked off and drop a B-air and stage spike him (or he would tech but it'd be good regardless), without dying. Never let Falco recover if there is any chance of killing him off-stage.

When you lost your last stock and took his stock: Well played, you should be doing that more.

Just before you got killed and started doing a Firefox. You chose a horrible place to do it. Going straight wouldn't have gotten you the ledge and a bit above it got you spiked. You could've tried going 45 up, but yea.


Basically, here's my advice, judging on this match;


Keep moving against Falco, that went alright for the most part.

Get your tech skill right so you can do what you want. I think there's a couple of times where you know what you want to do but you didn't execute it right. Make sure that goes flawlessly.

Make the right choices, like not up-smashing when you grab at 5%.
 

PK Webb

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nice critque but as for up smash i learned that from tag$ lol but ill look into it im not a huge fan of uptilt at low percent cuz i dont see many follow ups for it at under 15%
 

Rykard

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Feb 1, 2008
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trey what the hell is the freeman estate?

and put up the vids you just uploaded today. you were playing a lot better against my falco than last week so people can see what you've done since.
 

Brookman

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Falco man, he too good.


honestly yedi, you were playing pretty well I think you just need to refine a few aspects of your game (edge guarding/up throw, to name a few)

Other than that, you need to be more acutely aware of when he's open. how's your reading on him, specifically?

I'll maybe go more in depth later, kinda got a head ache atm.
 

Evoke

Smash Apprentice
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Nov 29, 2010
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New York
Usually when I edgeguard I rwd onto the edge and bair off it onto the stage OR just charge a smash.

although since it's a falco just fsmash or shine
 

#HBC | Mac

Nobody loves me
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yea my edgeguarding and comboing are pretty ****ty. I need more experience with fox. I like the falco match up more as fox than i do dittoing with falco so I kinda wanna learn the match up better.

evoke, where in ne do you live?
 

Evoke

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same as you lol
Actually, I haven't really competitively played melee for a long time (started like 2 months ago) but I can ko falcos pretty easily.
Pillars are kind of annoying though, as are shl
right now, bair off edge is how I deal with falco's horizontal and up diagonal firebirds or whatever
shine the easily shined ones
and rwd (if I can) the phantasms
 

Animal

Smash Lord
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Oct 20, 2009
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by far my best matchup, (beating sleepy k in apex pools), this is some things that might help. Always want to keep hitting falco, even though that feels impossible sometimes, but even trading hits is good. As long as your constantly getting hits in. Learning how to deal with lasers and working out of shield is a must. Rarely ever challenge a falco directly above you or coming down on you. Unless there at high percent and u think u can trade hits, 99 percent of the time their just going to dair. So just predict it by moving out of the way and punish accordingly. Learn to power shield, if u can get it consistent enough falcos will stop spamming them and challenging u. it messes up there momentum and flow, and really discourages them. Also, the key to beating falco is keeping him off his feet. Sounds obvious but really the more shines you get the better, and follow hard afterwards. More things and specific examples after class lol
 

ArcNatural

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If you find the Falco is spotdodging all your grab attempts (it happens, you just need to recognize when your timing is off) I enjoy doing aerials instead. But you need to time them well so that the hitboxes stay out until the spotdodge completes.

Drill has been pretty nice, as I often drill to grab instead of shine. At low % just like Falco would do dair shine di away fsmash. I enjoy doing dairs away to grab when they try to CC shine.
 

Pr0jecT

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Oct 16, 2006
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Keeping proximity on falco and making him feel pressured is probably one of the best things you can do.
 
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