Exploits (Wavedashing, CCing, SHFFLing)

[Master_of_Melee]

Ok, I go to a tournament where only me and one other person doesnt use the exploits of the game. The reason I dont use it is not because i dont know how, I could take the time to learn and master it, but a matter of morals. To me, using these tricks is cheating, plain and simple. It is no better than using a gameshark or other hacking device to give yourself infinite lives in any other game. There is no way Nintendo meant for these tricks to be in the game, therefore i dont think we should be able to use them. Unfortunately, since SSBM doesnt have online capability, there is no way to fix this. Hopefully, Nintendo will implement regular updates to Brawl so that these types of tricks can be taken out when they are found. I have already refused to compete against one player in the tournament because he has no real skill, just a bunch of tricks. What's the fun of playing a competitive game if you are going to abuse the system and cheat to win? Granted, there are some very talented players, i have realized this. I simply think that SSBM has become a game of knowing the exploits instead of training and gaining actual skill. Just wanted to get everyones opinion about this.

 

[pdk]

come back when you're 13 and tell us what you think then

 

[Private Zulen]

Personally, I'm just too lazy to learn them, though I can see where you're coming from.

Unfortunately, you have to learn yourself. Sorry to say this, but with a fighting community (Like Jump Ultimate Stars), you just have to go with the flow. There is no "fairness" in Smash, if it's something I noticed. I, too, was surprised at these people being nicknamed and then shunned, but hey, that's just the way the community is.

If you don't play the right way, you're a noob, and you get comments like the previous one.

Like myself.

 

[Corigames]

Here is a level 40 flame shield
*gives*

I would tell you to use mind-games and SHFF to avoid the flames, but it seems you want to avoid any skill in that.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Topics like this...why god...WHY...please let it be a joke..please..*explodes*

 

[Private Zulen]

I have to admit though, you've got balls coming to a forum with over 3000 tech-obsessed fans and insulting the idea.

 

[tec27]

I've had this discussion with someone else before, albeit about a different game: Starcraft. Smash and Starcraft both have exploits that are used in all competitive games, so they share a lot in common in those respects. In fact, I'd go so far as to say *any* competitive game out there has exploits that are commonly used and perfectly accepted within their respective scenes.

Smash and other games are not like typical sports, so it becomes a problem when you try to use your generic sports 'morals' when playing those games. Sports don't have the same problems that video games do when it comes to exploits, because, well, you can't exactly break the very laws of physics and slide along the ground in real life, can you? All competitive gaming follows a cycle, if you will, in which exploits are found and developed into invaluable skills which make the game overall more exciting and interesting. This can be scene in Smash in the form of wavedashing, among many other skills, and in Starcraft in the form of using minerals to stack your workers, etc.

I think one can easily see, when not jaded by their generic sports morals, that these exploits are in fact making the game better and increasing its longevity. It provides something for players to work towards and master, outside of what the game developers originally intended. Just because something isn't intended does not mean its necessarily bad, or even against the rules, and in competitive gaming, it most definitely isn't, except for certain cases.

These certain cases revolve around one specific area of exploits: game-breaking exploits. I define something as game-breaking if it is very easy to do, makes the game very one-sided, and/or makes the game impossible to play (IE: infinitely stalls the game, etc.). Game-breaking exploits should not be used because they don't add anything to the game, and just really make the experience less enjoyable for everyone. Those are the only kinds of things you should 'ban' due to your morals, not the things that add to the game like wavedashing.

 

[Private Zulen]

I've had this discussion with someone else before, albeit about a different game: Starcraft. Smash and Starcraft both have exploits that are used in all competitive games, so they share a lot in common in those respects. In fact, I'd go so far as to say *any* competitive game out there has exploits that are commonly used and perfectly accepted within their respective scenes.

Smash and other games are not like typical sports, so it becomes a problem when you try to use your generic sports 'morals' when playing those games. Sports don't have the same problems that video games do when it comes to exploits, because, well, you can't exactly break the very laws of physics and slide along the ground in real life, can you? All competitive gaming follows a cycle, if you will, in which exploits are found and developed into invaluable skills which make the game overall more exciting and interesting. This can be scene in Smash in the form of wavedashing, among many other skills, and in Starcraft in the form of using minerals to stack your workers, etc.

I think one can easily see, when not jaded by their generic sports morals, that these exploits are in fact making the game better and increasing its longevity. It provides something for players to work towards and master, outside of what the game developers originally intended. Just because something isn't intended does not mean its necessarily bad, or even against the rules, and in competitive gaming, it most definitely isn't, except for certain cases.

These certain cases revolve around one specific area of exploits: game-breaking exploits. I define something as game-breaking if it is very easy to do, makes the game very one-sided, and/or makes the game impossible to play (IE: infinitely stalls the game, etc.). Game-breaking exploits should not be used because they don't add anything to the game, and just really make the experience less enjoyable for everyone. Those are the only kinds of things you should 'ban' due to your morals, not the things that add to the game like wavedashing.

There is a difference between "using broken parts of the game against you" and "mastering broken parts of the game". Fer'instance, for anyone who's had the time to play Jump Ultimate Stars, it's very similar to Smash Bros. Very very similar, and it also has an online function in which I (until recently) was pretty avid with.

However, I eventually was driven to shun Jump Ultimate Stars because of it's online players. You would not believe how cheap these players are. These players often spam one certain, ultima move over and over, and you can't him them because they are exploiting broken parts of the game. This doesn't increase longevity, my friend? If it did, I wouldn't have broken JUS into pieces and taped them on my wall. People being cheap to the point where they are unstoppable just suck the fun out of the entire game.

Smash Bros, on the other hand, needs alot of time and effort to master these glitches. They don't completely lopside the tournament, IMO, since they require alot of effort to accomplish. You have to be very consistent with it, as opposed to JUS, where people online break your game so they get a Win on their record and you get a Loss (Yes there is an actual glitch like that).

Plus, SSBM apparently had more work going into it than said game, so it makes it so much less of problem for everyone.

And if it's one thing to highlight in this post, it's don't buy JUS.

 

[Wobbles]

SHFFLing: Short Hop Fast Fall L-canceling. Short hopping is clearly meant to be in the game because every character has a set height and timing. Fast falling is obviously meant to be in as well because you can only do it at the peak of your jump so as to avoid ridiculous jumping acrobatics, and L-canceling, rather than destroying the entirety of the animation, shortens it specifically. All three of those are clearly meant to be in the game. Saying otherwise is foolish.

Crouch Cancelling: The designers obviously put DI in as a definitive factor of the game. It adds to survivability and helps mitigate combos. CCing is a form of directing attacks into the ground so you don't go anywhere and can retaliate. Exploit? Looks like it works just like they wanted.

Wavedashing: The only thing even remotely resembling an exploit, and all it does is make the game more interesting. And it makes complete sense. You're allowed to air dodge when you are in the air. If you have momentum while you move into the ground, you continue with that momentum. If you aren't in a tumbling animation, then you simply slide. Air dodging gives you the momentum that makes you slide immediately as you take to the air. It's an innovative way of using the physics engine; it certainly isn't breaking it.

Basically, you're upset about the "morals" of how the game was "intended" to be played, when you're not paying attention to the fact that if it's in the game, they probably wanted you to implement somehow. Again, wavedashing is probably an exploit, but it just adds to the fun and depth.

Actual skill? Define it. What is it? Hitting with one isolated smash, then another, repeatedly? Not maneuvering to take advantage of your opponent's weaknesses, but relying on lucky moves to win you a game you can barely control? zIf these were just stupid tricks, then you would have no problem beating them. It looks like you can't, and you're bitter.

Why don't you define "real skill" for me, and then we can have a nice happy conversation.

 

[Cia]

SHFFLing: Short Hop Fast Fall L-canceling. Short hopping is clearly meant to be in the game because every character has a set height and timing. Fast falling is obviously meant to be in as well because you can only do it at the peak of your jump so as to avoid ridiculous jumping acrobatics, and L-canceling, rather than destroying the entirety of the animation, shortens it specifically. All three of those are clearly meant to be in the game. Saying otherwise is foolish.

Crouch Cancelling: The designers obviously put DI in as a definitive factor of the game. It adds to survivability and helps mitigate combos. CCing is a form of directing attacks into the ground so you don't go anywhere and can retaliate. Exploit? Looks like it works just like they wanted.

Wavedashing: The only thing even remotely resembling an exploit, and all it does is make the game more interesting. And it makes complete sense. You're allowed to air dodge when you are in the air. If you have momentum while you move into the ground, you continue with that momentum. If you aren't in a tumbling animation, then you simply slide. Air dodging gives you the momentum that makes you slide immediately as you take to the air. It's an innovative way of using the physics engine; it certainly isn't breaking it.

Basically, you're upset about the "morals" of how the game was "intended" to be played, when you're not paying attention to the fact that if it's in the game, they probably wanted you to implement somehow. Again, wavedashing is probably an exploit, but it just adds to the fun and depth.

Actual skill? Define it. What is it? Hitting with one isolated smash, then another, repeatedly? Not maneuvering to take advantage of your opponent's weaknesses, but relying on lucky moves to win you a game you can barely control? zIf these were just stupid tricks, then you would have no problem beating them. It looks like you can't, and you're bitter.

Why don't you define "real skill" for me, and then we can have a nice happy conversation.

don't waste ur time.. this 2007. this game has been out for a good six years. everyone who's ever one a tournament uses these "exploits" so for one person to say it's wrong.. it really means nothing (no offense) but those who don't know, won't know.

 

[pdk]

Smash Bros, on the other hand, needs alot of time and effort to master these glitches. They don't completely lopside the tournament, IMO, since they require alot of effort to accomplish.

they generally don't "completely lopside the tournament" after they become second nature to you either

 

[Micahc]

*Wishes Dylan was here*

 

[F8AL]

Yeah? Well Halo 2 has alot of "exploits"/tricks/glitches too as well. (i.e. BXR for example)

Edit: If the rep system was still around, I'd give Master_of_Melee some negative points for his incredibly stupid topic/post.

 

[Private Zulen]

they generally don't "completely lopside the tournament" after they become second nature to you either

I realize this as well. Many of the pros assimilate these "exploits" into their fighting style to the extent no one cares and most people use them.

I guess it all comes down to how many people like using them and whether or not they can rid the community of people like... well, like, Master_of_Melee.

 

[tec27]

There is a difference between "using broken parts of the game against you" and "mastering broken parts of the game". Fer'instance, for anyone who's had the time to play Jump Ultimate Stars, it's very similar to Smash Bros. Very very similar, and it also has an online function in which I (until recently) was pretty avid with.

However, I eventually was driven to shun Jump Ultimate Stars because of it's online players. You would not believe how cheap these players are. These players often spam one certain, ultima move over and over, and you can't him them because they are exploiting broken parts of the game. This doesn't increase longevity, my friend? If it did, I wouldn't have broken JUS into pieces and taped them on my wall. People being cheap to the point where they are unstoppable just suck the fun out of the entire game.

Smash Bros, on the other hand, needs alot of time and effort to master these glitches. They don't completely lopside the tournament, IMO, since they require alot of effort to accomplish. You have to be very consistent with it, as opposed to JUS, where people online break your game so they get a Win on their record and you get a Loss (Yes there is an actual glitch like that).

Plus, SSBM apparently had more work going into it than said game, so it makes it so much less of problem for everyone.

And if it's one thing to highlight in this post, it's don't buy JUS.

I specifically said that game-breaking parts of a game should be banned, and you said that in JUS, what those people were doing was "broken". So how does that not fit with my original post? Game-breaking exploits *do* suck the fun out of a game, and thats why they shouldn't be allowed. Non-game-breaking exploits, however, only add to the game, and should be used to their full extent, imo.

 

[Master_of_Melee]

hmm, well...ok...right. i have decided that instead of replying to all of your posts (which would lower myself to a lvl lower than that of my 5 year old nephew), i am simply going to continue with my idea of patches. This idea was brought on by my playing World of Warcraft, where an exploit in the Multiplayer Battleground system was found and removed, and I seem to enjoy it. Although, I do have one question for everyone who has posted above (not Tec27, your post was constructive and had a purpose to it. I want to thank you for not being ignorant). Why is it that everytime I go into a forum topiced to a video game, be it this or World of Warcraft, every single thread started has to have unnecessary flaming in the thread? Does everyone feel so insecure about themselves that they must put others down just to satisfy their insatiable need for attention? Or is it that I am surrounded by 10 year olds who know nothing about common curtesy? I am starting to believe it is the latter. I apoligize for trying to get an opinion on a subject that was troubling me about this game and I will no longer attempt to communicate through this forum because it will serve no further purpose.

 

[Micahc]

hmm, well...ok...right. i have decided that instead of replying to all of your posts (which would lower myself to a lvl lower than that of my 5 year old nephew), i am simply going to continue with my idea of patches. So you're going to ignore well made and thought out arguments made against your point? This idea was brought on by my playing World of Warcraft, where an exploit in the Multiplayer Battleground system was found and removed, and I seem to enjoy it. Although, I do have one question for everyone who has posted above (not Tec27, your post was constructive and had a purpose to it. I want to thank you for not being ignorant). Why is it that everytime I go into a forum topiced to a video game, be it this or World of Warcraft, every single thread started has to have unnecessary flaming in the thread? Does everyone feel so insecure about themselves that they must put others down just to satisfy their insatiable need for attention? Or is it that I am surrounded by 10 year olds who know nothing about common curtesy?Flaming? Most of what I saw was well written responses from a couple well respected members of this board. I am starting to believe it is the latter. I apoligize for trying to get an opinion on a subject that was troubling me about this game and I will no longer attempt to communicate through this forum because it will serve no further purpose.Umm... Ok then.

Flippin 10 character limit.

 

[Private Zulen]

Now, it's a question about the forums?

Well, this is competitive gameplay, this means everyone is headstrong, and everyone thinks their right. If it's one thing I'd learned being my short stay here, it's that you have to talk with your chest out, or you'll get eaten alive.

And did you not realize you completely blew off every response in this thread?

EDIT: Okay, he's gone. So much for defending his point.

WELL KIDS WHAT DID WE LEARN TODAY?

Names can be misleading.

 

[Mosk]

Ok, I go to a tournament where only me and one other person doesnt use the exploits of the game. The reason I dont use it is not because i dont know how, I could take the time to learn and master it, but a matter of morals. To me, using these tricks is cheating, plain and simple. It is no better than using a gameshark or other hacking device to give yourself infinite lives in any other game. There is no way Nintendo meant for these tricks to be in the game, therefore i dont think we should be able to use them. Unfortunately, since SSBM doesnt have online capability, there is no way to fix this. Hopefully, Nintendo will implement regular updates to Brawl so that these types of tricks can be taken out when they are found. I have already refused to compete against one player in the tournament because he has no real skill, just a bunch of tricks. What's the fun of playing a competitive game if you are going to abuse the system and cheat to win? Granted, there are some very talented players, i have realized this. I simply think that SSBM has become a game of knowing the exploits instead of training and gaining actual skill. Just wanted to get everyones opinion about this.

L-Cancelling was known as Z-Cancelling in SSB64, if melee has different engine then you could say Nintendo wanted this in the game.

I really believe the makers of smash extensively tested the physics of the game. If the developers saw the video "perfect control" I think they'd be less entertained by it then the smash community.

How wouldn't they have known about wavelanding/dashing? They didn't know you could airdodge into the ground as soon as a character is in the air? This game wouldn't be as good as it is if the makers didn't know what they were doing as they made the game.

 

[Ixninjax]

did you skip wobbles post completely? What techniques specifically do you find cheap? A lot of times ppl refer to techniques as "cheap" when they themselves can't even do them and blindly label them without even trying them out. None of the advanced techniques are cheap, being that they don't restrict your opponents in any way and everybody has the option to do it. If somebody wavedashes in a match with you, do you at all feel disadvantaged? They move left to right, is that your definition of cheap?

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

This is probably someone else on a joke name.

Play to win, don't hate the player hate the game, you're restricted by arbitrary codes of "honor" that nobody else cares about and are therefore irrelevant, etc.

 

[Private Zulen]

This is probably someone else on a joke name.

I thought that as well until I saw his join date.

 

[psicicle]

By the way, WHAT THE DEVS INTENDED DOES NOT MATTER. WHat's in the game is in the game, and if the game is fun and has depth with what is there, there is no need to fix it.

"Does everyone feel so insecure about themselves that they must put others down just to satisfy their insatiable need for attention? Or is it that I am surrounded by 10 year olds who know nothing about common curtesy? I am starting to believe it is the latter. I apoligize for trying to get an opinion on a subject that was troubling me about this game and I will no longer attempt to communicate through this forum because it will serve no further purpose."

Double standard. You've just generalized everybody who replied to you as a "10 year old" who is "insecure". Is this not the "flaming" that you are complaining about?

Ad hominem. Look it up. This part has no relevance to the "discussion".

http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-0/
Something to read if the self-proclaimed master of melee comes back.

To address the original question more directly, the "tricks" being discussed to not bring the game to a lower level. None of these "tricks" replace any other move completely; these techniques are better in some cases. Sometimes a SHFFL is the best way for attacking. However, the full-hopped ariel also has its advantages. Now, you said that you do not use any of these, nor have you ever. I don't think that you can adequately judge their effect on the game without having implemented them.

I guarantee that I can beat you in smash brothers even if you knew all the "tricks" available on it because technical skill (the ability to use these "tricks) is not what the game comes down to. This is why some people can beat others using only one hand. What is lacked in tech skill is more than made up for by intelligent play.

Perhaps I would give you some respect if you tried to understand the other side of your "question", but you have shown a great deal of disrespect; you lack the "common curtesy" you requested.

 

[Paradigm]

You guys just don't get it, if these are legit what Johns does Master 'o Melee have left?

This mentality of "me 'n my friends didn't think of it so it's cheating" isn't limited to smash, sadly. As someone else mentioned, its seen in Starcraft a lot. Starcraft, though, gets patched (even after all these years) - so the argument of "the developers didn't know about it" is gone. People still ***** and moan, though. Same with Counter Strike, and virtually any other competitive game I've played enough to crush someone who plays casually.

Using a game like WoW as an example - a completely different genre - is a new one for me, though. If there's ever a WoW tournament (PvP?) with money on it the same complaints will pop up, even if Blizzard doesn't patch these "exploits."

 

[Smooth Criminal]

SHFFLing: Short Hop Fast Fall L-canceling. Short hopping is clearly meant to be in the game because every character has a set height and timing. Fast falling is obviously meant to be in as well because you can only do it at the peak of your jump so as to avoid ridiculous jumping acrobatics, and L-canceling, rather than destroying the entirety of the animation, shortens it specifically. All three of those are clearly meant to be in the game. Saying otherwise is foolish.

Crouch Cancelling: The designers obviously put DI in as a definitive factor of the game. It adds to survivability and helps mitigate combos. CCing is a form of directing attacks into the ground so you don't go anywhere and can retaliate. Exploit? Looks like it works just like they wanted.

Wavedashing: The only thing even remotely resembling an exploit, and all it does is make the game more interesting. And it makes complete sense. You're allowed to air dodge when you are in the air. If you have momentum while you move into the ground, you continue with that momentum. If you aren't in a tumbling animation, then you simply slide. Air dodging gives you the momentum that makes you slide immediately as you take to the air. It's an innovative way of using the physics engine; it certainly isn't breaking it.

Basically, you're upset about the "morals" of how the game was "intended" to be played, when you're not paying attention to the fact that if it's in the game, they probably wanted you to implement somehow. Again, wavedashing is probably an exploit, but it just adds to the fun and depth.

Actual skill? Define it. What is it? Hitting with one isolated smash, then another, repeatedly? Not maneuvering to take advantage of your opponent's weaknesses, but relying on lucky moves to win you a game you can barely control? zIf these were just stupid tricks, then you would have no problem beating them. It looks like you can't, and you're bitter.

Why don't you define "real skill" for me, and then we can have a nice happy conversation.

This is probably someone else on a joke name.

Play to win, don't hate the player hate the game, you're restricted by arbitrary codes of "honor" that nobody else cares about and are therefore irrelevant, etc.

I think these gentleman summed it up quite nicely.

This thread is a bloody waste of brainpower, Master of Melee. If you think CCing and crap is unfair, tough cookies. Things like this exist for all games, whether you want them to or not---especially if you head into the competitive community. You name one game that is recognized by MLG that doesn't have advanced techniques or unique tricks that are used in them. Name me one.

No, the only sort of "exploitation" I can honestly see here is the kind that differentiates the "scrubs" and the "non-scrubs"---with the non-scrubs illustrating each of their arguments with concise, logical points and revealing chinks in the armor that you've donned. How is it that you would be "lowering yourself to the level of a five year old" by reading what has been written? You think your ego is gonna drive your point home or something? Ha. Not hardly. Without facts, pal, your argument doesn't amount to even dung.

Consider the other side of the fence, not just peer over it and look at **** with disdain.

Smooth Criminal

P.S. Yeah, I was being reactionary. Oh, well.

 

[ph00tbag]

As I recall, the developers of Melee knew about wavedashing before the release and left it in. SHFFLing is pretty much a wholly and entirely intentional aspect of the game. Crouch Cancelling, too. Your argument may hold water against Wobbling, or a shine infinite, but the "exploits" that you've panned here are all in the game with the blessing of the developers.

But you're not even here anymore, so why am I bothering?

 

[BlackPanther]

hmm, well...ok...right. i have decided that instead of replying to all of your posts (which would lower myself to a lvl lower than that of my 5 year old nephew), i am simply going to continue with my idea of patches. This idea was brought on by my playing World of Warcraft, where an exploit in the Multiplayer Battleground system was found and removed, and I seem to enjoy it. Although, I do have one question for everyone who has posted above (not Tec27, your post was constructive and had a purpose to it. I want to thank you for not being ignorant). Why is it that everytime I go into a forum topiced to a video game, be it this or World of Warcraft, every single thread started has to have unnecessary flaming in the thread? Does everyone feel so insecure about themselves that they must put others down just to satisfy their insatiable need for attention? Or is it that I am surrounded by 10 year olds who know nothing about common curtesy? I am starting to believe it is the latter. I apoligize for trying to get an opinion on a subject that was troubling me about this game and I will no longer attempt to communicate through this forum because it will serve no further purpose.

Dude don't get so full of yourself. Did you look at Wobbles post. He made very good points about these "cheating" techniques that you call them. Short hopping and L - cancelling was in the original SSB is it cheating if they intentionally put it in there? And about cc'ing, couldn't explain it better than Wobbles did, he pretty much explained it all right there. And wavedashing, maybe it is an exploit but it's still balanced. It's not like you're invincible while you're sliding on the ground unlike the roll which grants you invincibility(not saying it's cheating) so it's just a fake out. You're talkin about competitive play. This is what makes the game competitve, I think Smash is just on a level of competition that you can't handle. I don't think any of these moves are cheating, people made a breakthrough with the game and so therefore, Smash is that more enjoyable to play on a fun and competitive level.

 

[Wobbles]

He still has yet to define "skill." Once he does that, we can have a real conversation. Otherwise, we're all just wasting our time trying to debate with him.

I also like how he comes to a discussion board and says:

have decided that instead of replying to all of your posts (which would lower myself to a lvl lower than that of my 5 year old nephew), i am simply going to continue with my idea of patches.

So you came to our "DISCUSSION" board and felt that ignoring our posts made you the big man. You continued with an idea that nobody felt contributed to the real discussion at hand.

I fail to see where you are demonstrating the maturity and discussion ability you declaim us for lacking. I'll overlook that if you will offer us your definition of skill.

 

[tshahi10]

I thought that as well until I saw his join date.

We all think the same thing. hey mods, could you do an ip check

 

[petre]

We all think the same thing. hey mods, could you do an ip check

i dont think they can check for a match with every single other account here, they probably test it with another one at a time, so theyd need some idea of who it would really be.

@topic creator: if you really want to get involved in competitive play, then you need to start maturing, first of all. you cant honestly say that all the responses you got were flames. if anything, the closest i saw were people saying stuff like 'here, take this flame shield', warning you that you were probably going to be flamed. but i didnt see anyone actually flaming you after your first post. did you even read any of the responses? i dont think you did. and if you wont even listen to the alternate side of an argument, while supposedly asking for opinions, then theres no reason any of us should respond at all. if youre just looking for people that have the same ideas as you, then dont ask what everyone opinions is. in fact, you really shouldnt have gone to a board for competitive gamers in the first place, because lets face it, we are the people that USE these techs. if youve just come to try and change everyones opinions on the matter, well, its not going to work, simply put. theyre there, they were put there for a reason, and we're using them for that reason. heck, the game wouldnt even have a competitive side if there werent any advanced techs in there. it would have died out years ago, because 10 stock very high items on hyrule is only fun for so long.

if you dont want to listen to anyones opinions on the matter, then you shouldnt have asked in the first place.

EDIT: ok, i just double checked, i counted 2 posts of flaming directed at you for what you said. there were at least 5 others that were actually discussing the topic intelligently. the rest were random comments.

 

[Private Zulen]

i dont think they can check for a match with every single other account here, they probably test it with another one at a time, so theyd need some idea of who it would really be.

Nah, they can. This forum is VBulliten right?

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Ok, I go to a tournament where only me and one other person doesnt use the exploits of the game. The reason I dont use it is not because i dont know how, I could take the time to learn and master it, but a matter of morals. To me, using these tricks is cheating, plain and simple. It is no better than using a gameshark or other hacking device to give yourself infinite lives in any other game. There is no way Nintendo meant for these tricks to be in the game, therefore i dont think we should be able to use them. Unfortunately, since SSBM doesnt have online capability, there is no way to fix this. Hopefully, Nintendo will implement regular updates to Brawl so that these types of tricks can be taken out when they are found. I have already refused to compete against one player in the tournament because he has no real skill, just a bunch of tricks. What's the fun of playing a competitive game if you are going to abuse the system and cheat to win? Granted, there are some very talented players, i have realized this. I simply think that SSBM has become a game of knowing the exploits instead of training and gaining actual skill. Just wanted to get everyones opinion about this.

Are you serious?

Im not going to reply to this seriously since I smell a troll account. But if that's a serious opinion about Super Smash Melee then I just feel sorry for you man.

You can scrub my floors anytime though.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

*CC's Master of Melee's attack on me, wavedashes back, shffls a f-air, and hangs on the edge*

Master of Melee dies.

I win.

 

[Private Zulen]

Dylan's posts where he looks down on people are simply amusing.

Unless there directed at me, in which case, I just cry.

Like a man, mind you.

 

[apple joos]

i think you should deal with the fact that yes those "cheats" as you call them are there and will be used and use them yourself cause if you dont you wont win very many matches against good players. im sorry but you are just redundant to not use these because if someone can get an advantage against someone else by using things that the game doesnt tell you to do then they will do it. just because the game doesnt say you can do it doesnt mean you cheat by using it.

 

[kerploplesteesh]

LOL. its obvious to anyone who knows the game that all of those things mentioned were intentional. Lock this thread please. (im sure z cancels in ssb were a mistake too)

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Dylan's posts where he looks down on people are simply amusing.

Unless there directed at me, in which case, I just cry.

Like a man, mind you.

So by Cry you meant.. drink beer and get head from a hot chick? You rule in that case.

About the whole looking down on people thing I dont like to do it, really. But in threads like these theres little any of us can do but pity the person who made the thread.

lol next hes gonna join a street fighter forum and complain about throws because you can't block them, then call them exploits.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Crouch Canceling?

lol!

I literally laughed out loud o_o

 

[CStrife187]

@kerploplesteesh

I think z cancels in ssb may have been an unforseen side effect of trying to implement guard cancels in a platforming game.

 

[HideousBeing]

If that wasn't an alt acount troll, I think this "master" has conveniently created a new account, because he has effectively blown all his credibility with only two pathetic posts. Poor fool does sound bitter though. If you're slinking around this thread on your new account now, master_of_smash *snickers at irony* I suggest you put yourself to learning these advanced techniques, or any decent smasher you encounter will cheerfully **** the master of smash.